And then there are mixed cases like Guardian that I absolutely love parts of the canon and hate other parts, and I can simultaneously be upset with people who dismiss the show as not worth watching, but at the same time when I call it a trash show it's not just to dismiss it, but a defense mechanism, because the only way I can really enjoy it is to remind myself not to take it too seriously, or it will break my heart.
♥ ♥ ♥ FWIW, I did appreciate the explanation of what you and Naye et al mean by "trash" in the earlier comment threads. I mean, I've been trying to work much harder on good-faith readings of other people's actions in fandom, too, and it isn't even difficult in this case to understand that it is absolutely a squee thing for you guys; it's not meant to be insulting! And that kind of self-deprecating thing is pretty common on Tumblr, so I've kinda gotten used to it, even if it's never going to be my thing. It's just speaking a different fandom language, that's all.
And yes, in answer to something you said in one of these conversations awhile back that I never came back and answered (although I intended to): Yes, I think Iron Fist/Defenders is exactly one of those affectionate-trash kind of shows, for similar reasons to why Guardian is. XDDD It's sort of like a big sweet bumbling golden retriever of a show that you feel so impossibly affectionate about that you can forgive it for pooping on the rug occasionally. XD
I think the reason why I will never quite be able to use it for a canon as a whole (as opposed to a single character, which is a bit easier for me) is that I simply can't wrap my head around calling my own work trash, which is the inevitable corollary of it for me: if the canon is trashy, the fic is trashy too -- for me there's no way around that (I think a very fundamental element of the way I relate to fandom and fic is that fic is always a step down from canon; it might be much more fannishly satisfying because it's written to supply our fannish ids, but canon comes first and fic is always derivative of that). But you know, again, I know this is at least partly just how I relate to fic/fandom, and maybe it's a also consequence of me taking my own work too seriously and I'd be happier if I'd just lighten up and accept that I'm mostly writing iddy trash and it's ... not a bad thing. XD
Anyway, one reason why I never want these discussions/debates to stop happening is because they do expose me to new ideas, and make me see my old ideas in a new light, and I think the "trash" discussion was definitely one of those; it made me see where you all are coming from and chill out about it a bit myself. :D
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♥ ♥ ♥ FWIW, I did appreciate the explanation of what you and Naye et al mean by "trash" in the earlier comment threads. I mean, I've been trying to work much harder on good-faith readings of other people's actions in fandom, too, and it isn't even difficult in this case to understand that it is absolutely a squee thing for you guys; it's not meant to be insulting! And that kind of self-deprecating thing is pretty common on Tumblr, so I've kinda gotten used to it, even if it's never going to be my thing. It's just speaking a different fandom language, that's all.
And yes, in answer to something you said in one of these conversations awhile back that I never came back and answered (although I intended to): Yes, I think Iron Fist/Defenders is exactly one of those affectionate-trash kind of shows, for similar reasons to why Guardian is. XDDD It's sort of like a big sweet bumbling golden retriever of a show that you feel so impossibly affectionate about that you can forgive it for pooping on the rug occasionally. XD
I think the reason why I will never quite be able to use it for a canon as a whole (as opposed to a single character, which is a bit easier for me) is that I simply can't wrap my head around calling my own work trash, which is the inevitable corollary of it for me: if the canon is trashy, the fic is trashy too -- for me there's no way around that (I think a very fundamental element of the way I relate to fandom and fic is that fic is always a step down from canon; it might be much more fannishly satisfying because it's written to supply our fannish ids, but canon comes first and fic is always derivative of that). But you know, again, I know this is at least partly just how I relate to fic/fandom, and maybe it's a also consequence of me taking my own work too seriously and I'd be happier if I'd just lighten up and accept that I'm mostly writing iddy trash and it's ... not a bad thing. XD
Anyway, one reason why I never want these discussions/debates to stop happening is because they do expose me to new ideas, and make me see my old ideas in a new light, and I think the "trash" discussion was definitely one of those; it made me see where you all are coming from and chill out about it a bit myself. :D