On Mighty Thor 19

[xparrot]

Spoilery spoilers for part 3 of Everything Burns.

...So, given Thor not seeing him, and Leah's about "insanity" - Ikol is all in kid!Loki's head??? Ummm. That is. Not good.

Four questions:

1. Is he 'real' (by whatever definitions of magical reality one wants to apply) or entirely a psychological artifact because Loki couldn't handle the guilt?


2. Does this mean Loki still does have access to all his magical knowledge, just locked away?


3. Does Ikol ever get out/take over Loki's body and get up to mischief Loki doesn't know about?


4. Does Loki know? (Yes, he talks to and about Ikol in front of others. But Loki - any Loki - has never been overly concerned with how sane he appears.)

(...or did everyone already know this already and I'm just slow to catch on? In retrospect it's kind of obvious. It does explain why you never see Ikol in Mighty Thor (ETA: save the exception mentioned below), because that's not usually in Loki's POV...)

...dangit, this josses my fic! :P (Though this one still stands, other than Thor seeing the mapgie at the end. In fact more and more I become convinced that's where this is going - only with the possibility of kid!Loki switching back. Which might make for some interesting times, if Loki ends up even more literally at war with his nature than usual...)

Comments

[sholio]

*spoils self* Oh wow - if true, what a fascinating twist THAT would be! It kinda ... makes a lot of sense, actually? I mean, given what Ikol is supposed to be anyway (if he had been real), this wouldn't be all that much of a jump - and I would say yes to #2, then, that Loki does still know everything he knew before, it's just that he's using Ikol (unconsciously) as a "gatekeeper" to prevent himself from freely accessing it. SWEET TWIST. (Though, yes, probably jossing EVERYBODY!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

It hasn't said it outright but it's...reeeeeally implied. First Thor can't see Ikol when Loki seems to, and then there is a line that if everyone knew how insane Loki really was, they'd hate him even more.

And it's one of those things that in retrospect makes PERFECT SENSE, but I didn't see coming at all, and I've been reading the series for months...!

I do wonder if this is heading toward making Loki a total anime-style dueling split-personalities type...

[sholio]

Well, at the very least this would seem to provide a major loophole for keeping kid!Loki around as his own character even if he does get his memories back -- if original-flavor Loki is capable of doing this with Ikol, then kid!Loki is more than capable of doing this himself. (And, hahahaha, I can TOTALLY imagine a Yugioh-style alternating-personalities thing going on with him ...)

At least we have independent confirmation (from non-Asgardians) that he LOOKS LIKE a kid. It would just be too incredibly bizarre if he only looks like a kid to us because he thinks he is one, but there is enough evidence that he is physically 13 that it couldn't possibly be the case.

...and then there is a line that if everyone knew how insane Loki really was, they'd hate him even more.

... you know, this quote, in a nutshell, is the main reason why I'm not reading the kid!Loki arc more enthusiastically. I'm aware that there is a whole history of Loki being a genocidal bastard to take into account, but even allowing for that, I'm still bothered by everyone else's behavior towards kid!Loki. With a couple of (minor) exceptions, everyone seems to be taking the attitude that he is simply born bad so there's no point in not being general condescending bastards to him, which is really bugging me, especially considering that they have a GOLDEN opportunity to try to get him turned around and send him down a different road. (Not to mention that the editorial deck is stacked against him too, so the poor kid can't win even when he does everything right ...)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he definitely looks like a kid - I'm taking it that the Mighty Thor series is from an outside POV (usually Thor's but it changes), because you never see Ikol in that, but you do see kid!Loki.

... you know, this quote, in a nutshell, is the main reason why I'm not reading the kid!Loki arc more enthusiastically. I'm aware that there is a whole history of Loki being a genocidal bastard to take into account, but even allowing for that, I'm still bothered by everyone else's behavior towards kid!Loki.

Hmm, yeah, I think this is something that plays a little better if you've read more of the Thor comics. Not to say that the Asgardians can't be judgmental bastards - they can be - but it's not just that they think he's destined to go bad; I think the majority of them don't actually believe he's ever gone good, that he's just faking. Since he did the "turn up in a new body and swear to Odin (s)he was reformed" thing before. And JiM, being Loki's POV, is biased in his favor (even though the plot is slanted against him).

(I also am somewhat amused by it because it's playing on the classic 'poor abused orphan' riff, which might be irritating except my impression is that it's deliberate and tongue-in-cheek, seeing as the orphan in question is a supervillain ^^)

Besides it's Marvel comics, everyone seems to be jerks in those anyways! :P

[pervert-bitch.livejournal.com]

Well Ikol does appear in The Mighty Thor, but in that scene he's only interacting with Loki, so your point stands :P

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was the first time, and it was Loki's POV.

Also when Loki first meets Leah, she reads Ikol's mind. But that's in Hel so the rules might be different, and also Leah, who maybe was actually reading Loki's mind? (in which case it's evidence that Loki doesn't actually realize Ikol isn't really there, which can't be good...)

[pervert-bitch.livejournal.com]

I just want a happy ending (or as what could pass as that for Loki) at the end of it. And it seems that in Marvel Now! Loki will have an adventure with Wiccan and Miss America Chavez, so at least he won't end up dead or reverse to old Loki... unless, Loki tuns into to characters or goes Yuugi as was said XD

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I want a happy ending but am bracing for the other, to try to keep my heart from getting broken (it's too late, I fear, oh kid!Loki why must you be so lovable? ;__;)

--But what is Marvel Now! ? I haven't heard of that (am not up on all my comics, there's too many to follow!)

[pervert-bitch.livejournal.com]

Here:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a394321/wiccan-kid-loki-will-shape-marvel-now.html
And while Kieron Gillen hasn't confirmed what other comic he will do besides Iron Man (after Everything Burns, a new writer will take up JiM and it will be about Sif), he did say the comic will be related to JiM. So we are hoping he will do that Marvel Now! issue with Kid Loki, Wiccan and Miss America.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

OH NOW. That is interesting!! ...it could be a past flashback? But still...kid!Loki on the Young Avengers would be pretty much the greatest *fingers crossed*

[praiseofshadows.livejournal.com]

I like this theory! Ikol being all in Loki's mind is awesome. And it gives a very different (and more sinister) reading of the New Mutants xover when Ikol was a wooden bird. And it means Thor was being serious instead of facetious in JiM 626.1. Which...is kinda weird how accepting Thor was of the situation, but I guess being Loki's older brother has resulted in way odder situations so Thor just rolls with it. Or since Kieron Gillen didn't write 626.1 it just is a weird outlier...lol

And although Ikol did appear in Vengeance #4 when Loki was at that museum...he's only in the frames that are from Loki's pov -- not the frames from the pov of the other characters But again, not written by Kieron Gillen, so perhaps it doesn't count?

Can't wait for next week to see if Ikol not being "real" is what Leah meant!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah...Thor in 626.1 makes more sense to me with this reading. (Though even before, I thought it was because he didn't realize Ikol could talk - I have been wondering if no one could understand Ikol except Loki, since no one does talk him ever. Just didn't take that thought to its logical conclusion...)

I think, if this is the case, that Gillen must have had some warning about Ikol, since he doesn't appear much elsewhere (interesting about Vengeance #4 - I haven't read that, have only seen a few panels from it, but if Ikol's only in the Loki POV shots then yeeeeeah, I would think that's more evidence...)

Is the next JiM out next week then? (I have failed at finding the publication schedules! ^^;) Ahhh so curious, want to see (if that's *not* what Leah meant then I'm dying to know how else he is insane!)

Re: Sorry if I'm barging in here

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, good question! When he sees Thor after just being 'restored' and getting his costume back and such, he does ask, "When did you get so old?" which definitely implies he doesn't remember everything (I always took it to mean he'd gotten his memories back but only up to the age he appears)...but it is Loki, so that might have been deliberate misdirection...

Re: Sorry if I'm barging in here

[littlelostsock.livejournal.com]

If Thor had decided he was better off dead, he would have been completely screwed.

If there's one thing we learned from the JMS run of Thor (pre-Siege), it's that Loki, unlike the other Asgardians, had the power to do things while 'dead,' before Thor even thunder-magic-summoned him. Loki had created a threat for Thor by throwing Balder into the Destroyer AND had stolen Sif's body BEFORE Thor had done his Mjolnir-resurrection-thing. So is it really so hard to believe that Loki could have brought himself back somehow, or at least could have worked some magic from the great beyond? It's not like coming back from the dead is rare in Asgard, albeit it USUALLY involves Thor.

With that in mind, and knowing how sinister Loki had been proven to be, I think it's entirely Loki's doing that he ended up as a kid. He thought people would be able to trust him more as a kid. It certainly worked for Volstagg a little bit ("I have children, Loki... and by the eternal droppings of Huginn and Muninn, I find myself sentimental about even the worst of you little monsters"). It backfired in that no Asgardian trusts him, but it was a complete success in that they let him back in. Had he showed up in his previous form, he would have been murdered on the spot.