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on Fringe, redux!
So I have caught up with Fringe, to the current ep (4x18) and I am...confused?
--Though especially after this past season, I have to say, the show is honestly worth watching for John Noble's performance alone. There are times that one of the versions of Walter hasn't been around for a while and I actually will start musing about whether the actor was unavailable, before I remember that no, wait, it's the same actor. It's not that he looks or sounds that different; it's just that all of it, the way he speaks, the way he carries himself, everything, are different people. Who are all totally different from his real self as well, judging by the couple of interviews I've seen. Whatever Walter is doing, whichever Walter it is, he doesn't disappoint.
As for the rest of the show...
Yeah. Confused covers it. Both plot-wise and emotionally. The plot I'm less concerned about - though I'm worried they aren't going to get the half-sized s5 they're hoping for; I have serious doubts they could satisfyingly tie up what's left in 4 eps. But with 4 + 13 I think they could pull it off nicely. So here's hoping!
Emotionally, though...
In general I've quite enjoyed this season - it's had its ups and downs like all of them, but overall I've found it equal to what's come before. I am glad that I watched it now - in fact I wish I had waited a bit and not watched until the season (or possibly the show!) was over; got a feeling that some of the things that were interesting and entertaining over a short period would've been frustrating played out over a year. But I've always been a sucker for 'It's a Wonderful Life' type stories and especially the season's opening played like one for Peter - the poignancy of seeing Walter without him, ow. And Astrid's actually gotten something resembling a character (omg Astrid with Alt-Astrid = adorable to the millionth power), and there's been Lincoln Lee in cute Clark Kent glasses!
Right now, however, not knowing how the season is going to end...I don't know how to feel about it! And I can't figure out if it's intentional or not. For the rest of the show, I've pretty much been on board emotionally; I feel what the writers intend me to feel. But now I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be feeling, and I don't know if it's because the storytelling is slipping, or because I'm meant to be discontent.
The thing is, I still miss blue-verse; that's the timeline we spent three years with (give or take various excursions), and to lose it feels like it renders much of the show pointless (even if that's not exactly true?). Amber-verse is interesting - and in some respects an improvement, especially on the red-verse side (yay for not-evil!Walternate!) - it's become established enough that I don't want to lose it, either - but I want blue-verse back. I miss 'our' Walter, and how he was with Peter, and Astrid, and Olivia...
(Amberverse Walter is so similar and yet so totally different - have I mentioned enough how amazing John Noble is? Because wow. The bro and I have been wondering - did amberverse Walter actually lose pieces of his brain? Or did that never happen - did he never cross the line to ask that of Bell? Because amber!Walter is more damaged than blue!Walter, from guilt and without Peter's mitigation after his release - but when he gets serious he hits a certain scary intensity that you don't really see in blue!Walter, except in that moment when his brain was reintegrated...)
--Really I want them to just sit down and explain amberverse, exactly what happened when - how did Bell die? What was the deal with the Olivia-swap - why did Olivia cross over at all, without Peter? So many questions...
Then there is the Peter/Olivia stuff - and I like Peter/Olivia, I still do; but the way they've done it now is vastly unsatisfying. For Olivia to make the choice to, in essence, kill off her amberverse self - that felt OOC to me. There were ways they could've done it that might have worked for me - I was missing blueverse!Olivia, I did want her back - but not like this. Not at the expense of what amberverse Olivia had, like her relationship with Nina. And not simply for romance, when there were other, better reasons they could've justified it (having a Cortexiphan-awakened Olivia on their side does have its advantages!)
Except...that was so weirdly done, and so many of the characters keep pointing out the problem with it, and they've done so little with their relationship since - I am trying to figure out if it's supposed to feel wrong? Or at least not as pat and cute as it's pretending to be? To set the stage for Peter to actually go home...?
While at the same time I can see a story logic to having amberverse have replaced blueverse. It's frustrating from the fan perspective of loving characters and not wanting to lose them; but thematically it's in keeping with the story of a man who replaced his son, different and yet the same, same and yet different, everyone is irreplaceable and yet no one is ever totally lost. It is in character for Peter to decide to just stick with this timeline - he already adjusted to a new universe before; only makes sense that he can do so again. And while it can feel like it renders the previous seasons pointless - it really doesn't; even putting aside Peter and Olivia's memories, the only reason we can appreciate the quirks of amberverse is because we were familiar with the characters from blueverse.
...At the same time, if blueverse is lost, I'd have a hard time rewatching previous seasons of the show, for the same reason I can't really rewatch early NCIS. Peter was supposed to be the one wiped from existence, but really it was blue!Walter and everyone else who were wiped, and losing them hurts! There also is a storytelling problem that it shifts the story - Olivia and Walter were always the heroes the narrative centered around; they were the ones who developed, while Peter was the linchpin holding their stories together. s4 makes Peter the hero, and it's an uneasy and not quite emotionally convincing adjustment - unless it was meant to be?
(I also am curious about - I've been calling it 'greenverse', don't know if there's a fan term for it. But there was a timeline before amberverse - the timeline where September didn't interrupt Walternate in his lab, so Peter was cured, and Walter never crossed over? Very curious if we'll ever see that timeline. --And we might get another Peter! Poor Joshua Jackson, he's the only one of the entire cast stuck playing a single character...tbh I have doubts he could pull off what John Noble or Anna Torv do; he's a solid TV actor but they outshine him pretty fiercely...oh well, acting, whatever, he's got those puppydog eyes!)
--And I could rave on more but I need sleep! I will leave you with bloopers - it's always fun to see the cast of a serious show being OOC (especially if it involves crazy cute hugs!)
--Though especially after this past season, I have to say, the show is honestly worth watching for John Noble's performance alone. There are times that one of the versions of Walter hasn't been around for a while and I actually will start musing about whether the actor was unavailable, before I remember that no, wait, it's the same actor. It's not that he looks or sounds that different; it's just that all of it, the way he speaks, the way he carries himself, everything, are different people. Who are all totally different from his real self as well, judging by the couple of interviews I've seen. Whatever Walter is doing, whichever Walter it is, he doesn't disappoint.
As for the rest of the show...
Yeah. Confused covers it. Both plot-wise and emotionally. The plot I'm less concerned about - though I'm worried they aren't going to get the half-sized s5 they're hoping for; I have serious doubts they could satisfyingly tie up what's left in 4 eps. But with 4 + 13 I think they could pull it off nicely. So here's hoping!
Emotionally, though...
In general I've quite enjoyed this season - it's had its ups and downs like all of them, but overall I've found it equal to what's come before. I am glad that I watched it now - in fact I wish I had waited a bit and not watched until the season (or possibly the show!) was over; got a feeling that some of the things that were interesting and entertaining over a short period would've been frustrating played out over a year. But I've always been a sucker for 'It's a Wonderful Life' type stories and especially the season's opening played like one for Peter - the poignancy of seeing Walter without him, ow. And Astrid's actually gotten something resembling a character (omg Astrid with Alt-Astrid = adorable to the millionth power), and there's been Lincoln Lee in cute Clark Kent glasses!
Right now, however, not knowing how the season is going to end...I don't know how to feel about it! And I can't figure out if it's intentional or not. For the rest of the show, I've pretty much been on board emotionally; I feel what the writers intend me to feel. But now I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be feeling, and I don't know if it's because the storytelling is slipping, or because I'm meant to be discontent.
The thing is, I still miss blue-verse; that's the timeline we spent three years with (give or take various excursions), and to lose it feels like it renders much of the show pointless (even if that's not exactly true?). Amber-verse is interesting - and in some respects an improvement, especially on the red-verse side (yay for not-evil!Walternate!) - it's become established enough that I don't want to lose it, either - but I want blue-verse back. I miss 'our' Walter, and how he was with Peter, and Astrid, and Olivia...
(Amberverse Walter is so similar and yet so totally different - have I mentioned enough how amazing John Noble is? Because wow. The bro and I have been wondering - did amberverse Walter actually lose pieces of his brain? Or did that never happen - did he never cross the line to ask that of Bell? Because amber!Walter is more damaged than blue!Walter, from guilt and without Peter's mitigation after his release - but when he gets serious he hits a certain scary intensity that you don't really see in blue!Walter, except in that moment when his brain was reintegrated...)
--Really I want them to just sit down and explain amberverse, exactly what happened when - how did Bell die? What was the deal with the Olivia-swap - why did Olivia cross over at all, without Peter? So many questions...
Then there is the Peter/Olivia stuff - and I like Peter/Olivia, I still do; but the way they've done it now is vastly unsatisfying. For Olivia to make the choice to, in essence, kill off her amberverse self - that felt OOC to me. There were ways they could've done it that might have worked for me - I was missing blueverse!Olivia, I did want her back - but not like this. Not at the expense of what amberverse Olivia had, like her relationship with Nina. And not simply for romance, when there were other, better reasons they could've justified it (having a Cortexiphan-awakened Olivia on their side does have its advantages!)
Except...that was so weirdly done, and so many of the characters keep pointing out the problem with it, and they've done so little with their relationship since - I am trying to figure out if it's supposed to feel wrong? Or at least not as pat and cute as it's pretending to be? To set the stage for Peter to actually go home...?
While at the same time I can see a story logic to having amberverse have replaced blueverse. It's frustrating from the fan perspective of loving characters and not wanting to lose them; but thematically it's in keeping with the story of a man who replaced his son, different and yet the same, same and yet different, everyone is irreplaceable and yet no one is ever totally lost. It is in character for Peter to decide to just stick with this timeline - he already adjusted to a new universe before; only makes sense that he can do so again. And while it can feel like it renders the previous seasons pointless - it really doesn't; even putting aside Peter and Olivia's memories, the only reason we can appreciate the quirks of amberverse is because we were familiar with the characters from blueverse.
...At the same time, if blueverse is lost, I'd have a hard time rewatching previous seasons of the show, for the same reason I can't really rewatch early NCIS. Peter was supposed to be the one wiped from existence, but really it was blue!Walter and everyone else who were wiped, and losing them hurts! There also is a storytelling problem that it shifts the story - Olivia and Walter were always the heroes the narrative centered around; they were the ones who developed, while Peter was the linchpin holding their stories together. s4 makes Peter the hero, and it's an uneasy and not quite emotionally convincing adjustment - unless it was meant to be?
(I also am curious about - I've been calling it 'greenverse', don't know if there's a fan term for it. But there was a timeline before amberverse - the timeline where September didn't interrupt Walternate in his lab, so Peter was cured, and Walter never crossed over? Very curious if we'll ever see that timeline. --And we might get another Peter! Poor Joshua Jackson, he's the only one of the entire cast stuck playing a single character...tbh I have doubts he could pull off what John Noble or Anna Torv do; he's a solid TV actor but they outshine him pretty fiercely...oh well, acting, whatever, he's got those puppydog eyes!)
--And I could rave on more but I need sleep! I will leave you with bloopers - it's always fun to see the cast of a serious show being OOC (especially if it involves crazy cute hugs!)
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Actually, if you are able to get your hands on the DVDs or find these on Youtube, the DVDs (which we watched via Netflix) have some really fun "making of" featurettes, going into detail on how they did stunts and special f/x. Definitely worth watching if you are into behind-the-scenes stuff! (In particular, I never noticed until watching those featurettes how often TV shows use upward-angled cameras to avoid showing the mattresses on the ground that the actors or stunt doubles are falling onto ... XDDD)
I agree with your thoughts re: John Noble. He is always amazing. :D Actually they all are ... though I'm honestly not sure whether to be glad or not that we've only seen one version of Peter, because much as I love Joshua Jackson in that role, I don't really feel that he has the range of the other actors -- but maybe he does! If we do get a season five, I really hope we get to see an alt!Peter at some point.
The rest of it ... yeah ... I don't know how to feel about things at this point, honestly. I've been really unhappy with the way that Peter/Olivia has ultimately played out, and I hate that we seem to have lost most of Blueverse for good, and yet I've enjoyed a lot of the ride (even some of the things I didn't like about season four at first are now more pleasant in retrospect) and I'm both eager and slightly terrified to find out what the writers have in store for the last few episodes.
I also have no idea how we're "supposed" to feel about most of what's happened lately -- the disconnect between the way things are playing out on the show and the way I feel about them is really uncomfortable, but I can't tell how much (if any) of that discomfort is intentional on the writers' parts, if it's what they're actually going for or if it's just an accidental side effect of the writers writing what they think is a grand love story for the ages.
And I'm still a little bit heartbroken over losing the blueverse version of the Peter-Walter relationship. As much as I've adored how Peter's experiences in the amberverse have finally made him learn to appreciate Walter and realize how much he loves him, it still rips out my heart that blueverse Walter never got to see and know that. Even though blueverse Walter no longer exists, so it's not like he's sitting around somewhere being alone ... it's just ... augh, I don't know. I miss all the blueverse characters, but I think that's the relationship I miss most, because I never really got the emotional catharsis that I was hoping for. It felt like it was starting to approach it, and then ... nuke to zero, reset and start over!
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I like the show enough at this point to want the DVDs, especially with the features. Do love a good making-of. And I'd like to see some stuff about the doubles especially - they're really good and subtle with those effects; most of the time I totally forget I'm watching the same actor, and some of that is acting but some is the special f/x!
...But some is acting, yeah. John Noble, just, wow. --And that's putting aside how Walter would be an incredibly challenging character even WITHOUT the alt-versions, with the mood swings and brilliance and insanity; that he pulls it off convincingly, and makes Walter sympathetic, even lovable...yeah, wow.
And heh, I agree re: JJackson. I am very partial to him (Peter's my type of char in character and looks, and I admit I'm kind of casting him as David Sleight in my mind (more in looks than in voice, but...)) but he's the weakest of the three leads. I was reading a previous post of yours in which you mentioned you had trouble connecting with Peter, and I was wondering if that might have been part of it? The thing is, I actually think he's a decent actor - I put his skills around level with Jensen Ackles, who I think is the best of the SPN cast - it's just that up against powerhouses like John Noble and Anna Torv, he can't compete!
As for the show itself...aaaaagh I don't knooooow! The thing is, I actually loved the Peter/Olivia stuff in s3 (putting aside the baby stuff, which I didn't mind in theory but argh scifi pregnancy DNW!! >.<) But the way it's played out in the second half of s4 has been unsatisfying; Olivia's feeling increasingly OOC to me, and even if I am an OTPer - hell, as an OTPer - I don't want my pairing at the expense of who the characters are! Defeats the whole purpose. But considering how on-board I was with it in s3 - I'm wondering if I'm supposed to feel this way? (though whether it's to pave the way for a 'true' happy ending/reunion with 'real'/blueverse Olivia, or because it's telling a story about alt selves and it's not meant to be a happy ending, but is supposed to leave you uneasy - I don't know!!)
And yes, god, I miss Peter & blueverse!Walter so much ;_; I really am enjoying that side of amberverse, watching Peter be the one reaching out, seeing how much worse off Walter was without Peter - but at the same time, oh, the thought that blue!Walter is gone guts me.
And yeah, I've been telling myself that this is just what Walter would've wanted - if he knew that sacrificing his...identity?...would save Peter and give him a life in another universe, with his father still even if a different father - Walter would take that bargain in a hot second! And in some ways it's what Walter deserved - that he's paying for his sin of (nearly) destroying two universes by being destroyed himself? And he did get to say goodbye, and give up Peter, and maybe that was the proper conclusion to his story? I tell myself this...but I still miss blue!Walter and what he was building with Peter...
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I AM SO GLAD IT IS NOT JUST ME. ;_;
I absolutely love the role reversal, with Peter finally being forced to realize that if he wants a relationship with Walter, he has to be the one to reach out, he has to be the one to make the decision that, yes, this is worth it to me, I love him enough to go through this. Watching Peter figure out that he loves Walter as much as Walter loves him ... that's been one of my delights in the show during its whole run, and it's been really front and center this season.
But yeah, the loss of blueverse Walter is heartbreaking to me, and I think it's hitting me harder than any of the others because we never did get the final reconciliation between him and Peter ... there were a lot of lovely little scenes with them along the way, but the final emotional catharsis that I was hoping for never happened, and we never will get it, if he's gone.
... oh, and I didn't comment on this earlier, but I had wondered the same thing you did about Walter getting his brain cut up in this universe. Although I hadn't noticed him being more focused -- I think it could go either way, really, and it's starting to look like that's something we never will know for sure. But I did wonder if that was part of his backstory here, or if he'd lost it through grief and despair instead.
And yeah, I've been telling myself that this is just what Walter would've wanted - if he knew that sacrificing his...identity?...would save Peter and give him a life in another universe, with his father still even if a different father - Walter would take that bargain in a hot second!
OH WALTER. ;_; You have a point -- he would totally have made that choice, if it had been offered to him.
I was reading a previous post of yours in which you mentioned you had trouble connecting with Peter, and I was wondering if that might have been part of it? The thing is, I actually think he's a decent actor - I put his skills around level with Jensen Ackles, who I think is the best of the SPN cast - it's just that up against powerhouses like John Noble and Anna Torv, he can't compete!
*nods* Yeah, he's certainly not a bad actor, and he does Peter well. But he's very flat in affect -- it's hard to know what Peter is thinking or feeling, and while I've come to realize that's just how Peter is (and for all I know it's a deliberate acting choice; Josh Jackson is definitely more emotive when he's being him rather than being Peter), it made him hard for me to connect to at first.
putting aside the baby stuff, which I didn't mind in theory but argh scifi pregnancy DNW!!
AAAAAAA I HATED THAT SOOOOOO MUCH. Not the pregnancy itself (well, okay, maybe a little bit, because seriously, Olivia, STUPID MUCH?! Don't they have condoms in her universe?) but they basically hit EVERY sci-fi pregnancy cliche in the episode where she actually had the baby. Augh.
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The lack of emotional catharsis, yes, that's true...if Peter had said his goodbyes at the end of s3 knowing what they actually meant, that he was going to be losing Walter rather than Walter losing him as they thought would happen, if he had mourned for Walter - that might have helped me get over it and accept the amber!Walter we still have. But that never happened, and so it makes it hard to accept that blue!Walter is gone.
It's weird because at the same time, that Peter hasn't mourned, that he apparently moved straight from denial to acceptance - that makes sense for Peter's character, from his past experience of adjusting to a new universe. And really, again, I think Walter would prefer that Peter didn't mourn - I suspect Walter would think he'd gotten what he deserved, and Peter shouldn't suffer for it. But oh, it hurts.
I had wondered the same thing you did about Walter getting his brain cut up in this universe. Although I hadn't noticed him being more focused -- I think it could go either way, really, and it's starting to look like that's something we never will know for sure.
It's been in a couple of scenes - like when Walter finds out that the Cortexiphan Nina is showing him has been stolen & replaced. He channels old!Walter at that point, in a way that I don't recall seeing in blueverse!Walter - and it seems like a deliberate acting choice to me. But yeah, like you said it could also be a result of amber!Walter's different experiences...I don't know! So curious...
Yeah, he's certainly not a bad actor, and he does Peter well. But he's very flat in affect -- it's hard to know what Peter is thinking or feeling, and while I've come to realize that's just how Peter is (and for all I know it's a deliberate acting choice; Josh Jackson is definitely more emotive when he's being him rather than being Peter), it made him hard for me to connect to at first.
I think the flat affect is deliberate - especially since JJ seems to have no trouble emoting in RL! (ahahah I loved how at least according to the bloopers he cannot actually walk without tripping over his legs or knocking something over XD) Really I think it's one of many cues taken from X-files, using underacting to increase dramatic tension and creepiness. Especially given that Olivia's affect is even flatter (it's also a useful trick for covering less than stellar actors, which is why it took me so long to realize that Anna Torv is actually really damn good at her craft!)
That being said, I never found Peter that hard to read...which I suspect is partly because I was used to TXF! I actually found all the chars difficult to relate to or like at first (which is funny because going back and rewatching bits of s1 I love all of 'em, and they're the same chars; it just takes a while to get to know them, to understand why they are who and what they are...)
well, okay, maybe a little bit, because seriously, Olivia, STUPID MUCH?! Don't they have condoms in her universe?
The bro (who has been filling in plot holes right and left ;) suggested that in redverse the male pill was developed first and is the standard, so neither of them thought to ask, assuming the other had it covered! XD
...which doesn't excuse the awfulness of the sci-fi pregnancy. Though what bothered me the most wasn't the scifi but the idiocy of the set-up - they wanted their creepy conspiracy so badly that they didn't just do the logical thing and have Walternate *ask* Altlivia if she wouldn't want to try a technique that would likely save her baby? ...not to mention if all they needed was a sample of the kid's blood, they didn't need him born at all for that. ARGH SO DUMB. I am just counting that ep as the one of the season that I pretend never happened (I figure every show is allowed one of those a season, and Fringe hasn't exceeded its count yet, so I call that a win!)
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Yes, me too! Peter was the last of the main cast for me to bond to (though I liked his relationship with Walter) but I found all of them fairly difficult to relate to in the first season. Actually, now that I've gotten to know them, I want to go back and rewatch early season one -- I'm sure it would be a whole different experience now!
The bro (who has been filling in plot holes right and left ;) suggested that in redverse the male pill was developed first and is the standard, so neither of them thought to ask, assuming the other had it covered! XD
LOL, I actually had similar thoughts, though I doubt the writers had that in mind. XD
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Fringe is an excellent show - it has a slow start, but once you get through first season (and swallow the mindbogglingly bad science!) it does really fascinating things with its characters. (try to avoid spoilers as much as possible; it's definitely better that way!)
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I reserve judgment on the season as a whole until it ends. Right now, yeah, I still am missing 'our' Walter and Olivia, but I'm wondering if that feeling means there's a chance of getting them back...will see!!
Punish Josh, that's nice!!!!!!
(Anonymous) 2012-04-20 11:42 am (UTC)(link)This is utterly disgusting that josh's acting is being questioned and punished.
Re: Punish Josh, that's nice!!!!!!