woe is me

[xparrot]

I am just not cut out to be a slash writer. I can't write smut! I want to write smut. But the chars, they want to talk. For 8 pages! The hell, Lex? You want Clark. He wants you. What is the problem here? Just get down on your knees, boy. Geeze. It's not that difficult.

For some reason I can only write smut very late at night. Four in the morning when I'm supposed to be asleep, then I'll have all manner of sexy bodies in my head, writhing together under the sheets/against the wall/over the desk/in the mud/what-have-you. The rest of the time, might as well be a lost cause. Talking, though. I can write endless discussion anytime. I ought to stick to gen. But I like slash, too, darn it! If only it weren't haaaard...(and not in the good way.)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I am quite possibly the worst slash fan ever, in that half the time I don't even read the smut; I skim the sex to get to the juicy bits, which for me is the...talking. And angst. And cuteness. And basically all the relationshipping that happens in between. This is probably why I can be both a slash and a gen fan without much mental dissonance. Though it doesn't explain why I have pairings like Clark/Lex which I simply cannot see as gen (even when I don't always read and can't hardly write the slashy bits.)

Comments

[naye]

Huh! I find I tend to slip into reading slash and smut late at night - late enough that my brain's kind of shut down, and epic plot or deep character insights wouldn't make sense, but sex still does. Late nights are weird.

You're not the worst slash fan ever, though, because of how well you write it. I don't care what you read - what you write is hot.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I don't really read it late, but it's the only time I really fantasize it. Not sure why, but pretty much all the sex I have written (like the SSBB stories) I, um, plotted while drifting off to sleep. If it counts as 'plotting' to think 'okay, here Quest gives Cale a blow job and then shoves him against the wall.' Which is much more difficult for me to plot out than an actual story. What does that say about me? ^^

and thank you, I'm glad at least someone finds them hot <3

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

In other news I am rather in love with the 10th Doctor and have only you to blame. But eee! He rides in on white horses and fights cybermen and Satan and eee! <333

[hils.livejournal.com]

I am exactly the same! Both in my reading and writing habits. To me it's all about the relationship and less about the smut. LOL. I'll read it occasionally if it's especially well written or I'm in the right mood but mostly I just skim.

Out of all my SV fics only one of them has been smutty and even then it was kind of fun, silly smut. I just can't do it most of the time

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I read it sometimes - if it's very well-written and character-appropriate, or on occasion in a long story when I've been waiting forever for it! Or if it's a very thought- or dialogue-intensive scene. But yeah, usually I don't pay as much attention to it as I do to the other parts.

I really appreciate silly smut because I enjoy it, but cannot write it at all - humor's hard enough for me, even without sex complicating it! ^_^

[danceswithgary]

The best CLex slash writing has them talking, communicating, trading barbs, yelling, screaming, whispering sweet threats for eons before they get down and dirty. Hell, I'll happily embrace a cutaway to a shared cigarette as long as I get some decent talking heads and relationship action. I have heard it said the best sex is when you get into someone's head. (And why did I just flash on Hannibal Lector - ew! Bad Val - no cookie.)

I know what you mean on the omigawd they're in the freaking shower together and now what am I going to write panics that result in having the entire story written EXCEPT for the sex scenes. In the middle of one of those right now and those boys deserve that sex and...oy.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee! Talking heads, that I can do. But yes! Sometimes it feels like a story just needs the sex, like it's cheating not just the readers but the chars to cut away just when they're getting down and dirty. You put the boys through hell, they need some kind of reward. ...Besides, Lex is something of an exhibitionist, he wants details, and wants 'em shared XD But it's hard!
Good luck with yours! *pokes at my own story with a stick*

[dhrachth.livejournal.com]

Nothing in particular against smut, but I prefer the talky bits too. To me, the thing about smut is that it's too repetitive. There's only so many things you can do with a penis and when people try to get creative it usually turns out more squicky than sexy. It's important that the characters get to the fun bits before too long, rather than just dithering and angsting all over the place because sexual frustration isn't pretty, but I've never been too concerned about the details. Vague allusions to smut rather than smut itself is often my preference in slash fic.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's one of my big problems with the smut. Tab A into Slot B (or C or D or G, etc...) - there are only so many variations! Except that there are only so many ways to write, say, hypothermia h/c, and I never get tired of that, so I imagine a lot of it is personal taste. But I tend to prefer allusions to graphic...even though I feel like I'm cheating people somehow if I write it that way. Heh!

[theclexfactor.livejournal.com]

Oh, but see you're not alone. Everyone in my stories has blueballs because I'll get them almost there and then stop them because, no, they can't have sex yet. It's too SOON! I don't think Lex appreciates it. He's been walking funny. Yeah, I like to read the narration and dialogue as well as write it, so we're in the same boat. And depending on where the sex is placed in the story (the middle or the end) I may skip it as well to get back to the "plot" so-to-speak.

But then again, I'm a foreplay kind of girl, all of the build up is hotter to me than the act itself.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

See, I don't think it's too soon for the sex! I'm of the opinion it should be happening by now! It's Lex who still has things to say before they starting getting down (and the trouble is with Clex is that once they start, they tend to move fast, so you really gotta get the talking out of the way first, or it has to wait 'til after...)

Heh, I find foreplay hotter than the actual act myself, but I find it as difficult to write, pretty much...

[acampbell.livejournal.com]

I like smut, but not without the characterization that comes with conversation. :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, yeah, I actually think relatively few slash fen like the smut over the characterization. Even most PWPs tend to have quite a lot more characterization than your average porno. But people like their smut too, so I always feel like I'm cheating people when I sacrifice all of it for the sake of the talkytalky...

[airairo.livejournal.com]

Haha! I was beginning to wonder if I was getting old because 99% of the time when I see a fic labeled as PWP I just keep on scrolling XD I wasn't always like that.. it's a recent thing. It's much more interesting to read about the how and the why than the actual act itself, so I'm mostly cool with "fade to black" type things. (Though, the problem for me is usually that the description of sex ends up being so boring and repetitive. Some authors write amazing smut - the kind that really resonates with the characters and has an element to it that is important to the plot of the fic. But, if that isn't the case it can end up being uncomfortable, like when a sex scene in a movie goes on a little too long.)

Also, UST is always going to be a million times hotter than actual porn anyway.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I read PWPs for the story. ...Um, no, really. ^^; I will happily read the beginnings and ends of PWPs for the humor/angst and skip all the smexing in the middle. Like I said, worst slash fangirl ever!

And yeah, there's a few authors I enjoy reading their smut, because it is char intensive. A well-done sex scene can say as much as a conversation (or more, with some chars...!)

UST, ah, UST I like so far, and then I start screaming OKAY, HERE'S THE SACK, JUST GET INTO IT ALREADY! XD

[utopiantrunks.livejournal.com]

Good build-up makes the smut better, anyhow. Good smut is devilishly hard to write, though. I love reading it, and I still always found that the most difficult part to write. Much easier to read. :P

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, it's relieving to know even the experts can struggle with it! ^_^ (at least it is easy for me to read now. When I first started on the slash I skimmed because I was too embarrassed to actually read it! ^^;;;)

[(Anonymous)]

Conversation is good and there is no hard and fast rule that slash has to be explicit. Some of my favorite slash stories have very little to no sex.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yup, my favorite slash pretty much has no bearing on the sex in it. Some of my favorite stories are totally explicit, others are G-rated. Though I don't think there's any stories I like just for the sex, which is saying something about my tastes right there...

[yma2.livejournal.com]

I understand your pain. I kinda get all... myeh, about the sex bits. On the one had I kinda like them, on the other I feel very nervous about writing them. Being both female and pretty much streight I find it hard to gather the courage to just... you know... go for it.
At any rate, I dont' think it effects your writing badly. Sure, I'd love to see a bit of smut as much as the next girl, but on the whole I enjoy good characterisation, fun dialoge and cool plot much more.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much over my embarrassment writing them (though it took me a while to actually type 'cock' into a story ^^;) but I have trouble with the actual mechanics - I will actually sit there going, 'okay, he's on his backside on the bed, he's holding his wrists...what does he do now?' It's not even finding the words, I can't do the blocking! Maybe I should watch more porn (but porn is booooring! :P)

[lukita.livejournal.com]

Hello brain twin. =)

[gnine.livejournal.com]

...You are adorable ^_^

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

Oh, sometimes I'm in the mood for reading porn. But lately, yeah, I've been sort of skimming the sex scenes, too. Particularly long ones! The hottest sex scenes are sometimes not much longer than a few sentences, a single suggestive move or scene, but pages and pages of it... blah. I keep zoning out. Particularly if there's no dialogue. There always should be dialogue. Bantering. Bickering. Dirty Talk. But no endless declarations of love.

And writing, heh. It always sort of feels like an obligation. (Except for the very few PWPs I've written but those were like pulling teeth, too.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a paragraph or two, well-timed and well-done, can be incredibly hot. More than that and I tend to start skimming - 'okay, nipples licked, one finger, two fingers, there we go, where's the dialogue?'

Endless declarations of love if played for laughs are great! Otherwise, erm, no.

Yes, obligation...an obligation I tend to skip out on, more than not. And I've never done anything I'd dare call a PWP, even though I've wished I could (mostly late at night...)

[littlehollyleaf.livejournal.com]

It's ok, I don't mind a lack of smut :) I'd rather have a story with a plot/philosophical discussion most of the time myself, and you really are very very good at that!

I am v. scared about what I'm going to do when the boys get together in my AU, because I have a strong suspiction it'll turn out I'm not a smut writer either :s

You post kinda implies gen fic doesn't involve slut btw :p Is this true?

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, it's good to know I'm not alone in my tastes! And good luck with your own fic'ing (we should start a smut support group!)

Gen fic usually is "general fiction" (though some call it "genre fiction" these days) and is, by most definitions, non-pairing fic, without romance or sex (as opposed to het fic, which is male/female pairing fic). The majority of my fic is gen; my SV is more the exception than the rule!

[jakrar.livejournal.com]

Not to worry -- the dialogue is the best part, and you excel at it! (In my opinion, you excel at ALL your writing, but I can't help liking the dialogue best.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee - with fic (and most writing in general), we're drawn to authors who enjoy writing what we enjoy reading. So it makes sense that you like a good spot of dialogue as much as I do!

Hey...

[greenlady2.livejournal.com]

... I can't really write smut either, and I get bored by too much of it in the stories I read.

I'm a total Slash fan, and I don't think Slash has to be about the smut. It's not that I dislike it, I just find endless passages about tab A fitting into slot B to be boring. What I love are the emotions involved, which is normal for most women, I think. For me, it's the people, their feelings, their love, and the pain they go through to prove their love. All that is interesting to me. Protrusions and openings, of whatever gender, just aren't interesting as a topic in fiction, however interesting they may be in Real Life, with the one you love. Body parts are a means to an end, so to speak, not an end in themselves. :-)))

Re: Hey...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yup, I agree that most women/fen are turned on more by the emotions than the physical act. Though I think for some people, the act itself, the details of it, is incredibly emotional experience. While as I tend to be more interested in the emotions that aren't so hormonally driven. A lot of it is personal taste...though it's very reassuring to know other slash fen share my tastes!

[ladydreamer.livejournal.com]

I'm not the best at writing smut, but I'm not bad at it and I have all the character stuff building up and during the smex. The closest thing I have to PWP was Bully, and that was more of a character piece. I don't think slash is about the SMUT as much it is about working from the subtext they give us and exploring it, which is... lotsa talking and lead up. They ain't all gay cowboys. No words then BAMM FUCKING!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yup! I agree, pretty much all slash is based on subtext and characterizations; with some chars it requires more lead-up than others, and Clex falls on the more talky end of the scale, more often than not. But for some fen I think that the smut is important to establish the sexual nature of their feelings, while as for other fen the sexual is one of the less important aspects of the relationship...I'm more the latter, but that's personal inclination as much as anything!

[stitcher2ficcer.livejournal.com]

Smut is one of those things, I think, that the more you read of the well-written variety, the more comfortable you become writing it. But as almost every commenter above has pointed out in one way or another, "slash" and "smut" are by no means synonymous, and one needs little to no smut to write great slash. And you, my dear, DO write great slash, giving us all wonderful insights into the relationship dynamics, feelings, and thoughts between partners, and always in the context of engaging, enjoyable plots, often with wonderful plot twists.

And along the way... what smut you do write, regardless of how short and how absent the body part words, always seems hot enough to me in the contexts you build for it. If you want to experiment with being more explicit, try reading, with closer attention, a few pieces by authors that do manage to bring it off well--and the best, I think, manage to develop character and feelings simultaneously--and eventually I'm sure you'll master that as well as you've mastered every other detail of style that you've worked at... Although in the case of writing m/m smut, it would be nice helpful to read some tasteful, well-done stuff by guys who actually engage in it to get a better sense of the mechanics. One can manage some level of translation from het experience to theoretical gay action--an experienced het woman should know rather a lot about what pleases a guy, and some of it's the same; but there's a point beyond which we ladies really can't go without treading questionable ground. But then, is it necessary to our stories to go there? Probably not.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I think it must be "the more you write" rather than the more you read, because I've read a lot of it - I only skim about half the time, like I said; if you factor in how much fic I read, that's a lot of not-skimming! But it still doesn't come easily to me. Fortunately as you say there's more to slash than that, but some of my stories might be better served if I could go into more detail, as the case may be...

The problem isn't so much that I can't so much as that I don't want to! If I put more effort into it, I could probably do more, but it would take more effort than I'm usually willing to give fanfic! Except really late at night, but then it's difficult to actually write it properly, so...

[attaccabottoni.livejournal.com]

On one hand, when I have less time on the internet (esp. when I had been fic-reading on multiple fandoms), I don't read the smut parts either. I usually skip to the next paragraph with quotations marks around substantial dialogue.

On the other hand, I like descriptive sex scenes, mainly because they contain a wealth of information. I used to consider the slash in fics as reference for info on gay sex in the context of a story (because I learn best through stories, even if they're not always responsibly written explicit sex), but now I find it fun to discover any fic writer's take on how it could be done and how it could be told on a particular point of view or writing style. Also, it gives me awareness of the imagined sensory inputs the characters are getting, and since sex is mostly in the mind, I find the different perceptions of it entertaining (feast for the imagination) and educational (in terms of writing).

And after megabytes of SV fics, I've yet to tire of reading descriptions of Lex and Clark's physical appearances in whatever conditions. What can I say, MR and TW are really gorgeous men. :D

Writing about it, though, is a more complicated matter--
1. Dirty talk: While I have no problem imagining the actor's voices speaking such dialogue in fics, I have a problem composing it in my head. I fail at inventing come-ons that are deliberate and not accidental, because apparently my imagination is limited to subtext.
2. I can't even draw het!kissing, and I can't type "Lex's cock" without giggling madly like a twelve-y.o. girl and lose my porny train of thought. My creative mental blocks permit suggestive imagery and lots of touching but no graphic or written sexual action. -_-;;; (I would probably overuse "And then they had sex, and it was fun/hot/scandalously kinky/literally groundbreaking.")
3. Sex culture differences: I could claim to infer ideas about the difference between American sex culture through references and American sex culture professed in/described through fictional universes between humans and metahumans/aliens, but SV blurred the lines as it has both the sci-fi element and the 21st century setting, so you have to reconcile the fact that Clark doesn't need a supercondom and the fact that he may not even stop to think about details like that. Because I'm neurotic about those sort of things, I won't assume enough about any character's thoughts on sex enough to write them, unless canon gives me enough hints. I'd gladly read other writer's fanon about their sex lives, though. :D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a well-written and/or imaginative sex scene can be very, mmm, educational! And entertaining for the sensory experience. But for me, I ted to burn out quickly; a lot of sex just reads the same to me, after a while. The rich sensuality will draw me into slash fic for a time, and then I'll want to stop experiencing and start seeing things happen. I suspect this is largely personal taste...

Writing it is something of a matter of practice, at least in part; I was very proud to use 'cock' for the first time in a story a few months back XD As far as canon characterizations go, American family shows like SV are mum enough on the issue that I don't have that much trouble extrapolating, though I tend to go with mainstream slash fanon more often than not (Lex as experienced bisexual, Clark as innocent but intrigued) probably because I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Other aspects of their characters I'll analyze at great length and develop my own theories, but the sexual doesn't interest me enough to consider it much (there are reasons personal to me for this, but I'll spare you!)

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Nah, I'm always skimming the sex looking for good dialogue or characterization, or those sudden flashes of insight that make you feel what the character's about -- and show up in the most unlikely places. The what goes where details often don't hold my interest, which is probably why I write more limes than lemons.

On the other hand in writing, I have a fascination with plots where the non-romance portion would play out differently if the romance was missing.

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Also condradictory as it sounds, I like stories about characters forming and then struggling to maintain a relationship, without needing the details of the sex that's obviously a big factor in said relationship.

[sumeria.livejournal.com]

But isn't this essentially *the* defining difference between slash, or yaoi, or any other form of erotica written largely by/for women and that written by/for men?

Heck, in anime/manga, this would be the largest difference in children's stories between what was targeted at boys and what was targeted at girls.

Women are interesting in talking, in the relationships of characters primarily. Men, more in the action.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Well, somewhat. But a lot of slash readers do love the smut! And for that matter, I'm a big fan of shounen, and shounen fight sequences, and I often enjoy writing combat action and such - h/c is often action-dependent - it's just the sexual action that leaves me cold.

The trick is that women are interested in relationships, but sex can be a very significant part of a relationship...some folks just enjoy hearing about that part more, while others like different aspects.

[redradioflyer.livejournal.com]

I can only write smut late at night, too. For me, it's because I'm dead tired and therefore not thinking as much about what I'm writing. Deliberately setting out to write smut just makes me partly embarrassed and entirely uninterested. When I try to write it lucid, I tend to end up with pages upon pages of...flirting. Which is okay, because I generally find that sexier than the smut, anyway. I can't read PWPs. They tend to be:
Character A: I sure do love Character B.
Character C: You do? Well, you know what has to happen now...
Character A: Yup *pounce*
Character B: Pfllkhyyff! ....Oooh....
[PORN]
Character A: Oh, our love is so pure.
Yeah. I'll take great dialogue and angst and cuteness and relationshipping over that any day.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, yep, I have the flirting problem myself. Or sometimes not even that - I'll be trying to write up to a seduction, only to realize that I've managed 2 pages of intense dialogue in which the chars didn't so much as exchange a sultry glance! I have trouble balancing the sexual tension with the other sorts of drama going on...

[sholio]

This may sound a bit weird and probably comes from my background as a gen fan, but I've never understand why there's almost, I don't know, an obligation to have smut in a slash fanfic. Paradoxically, I think I'd probably read more slash if there was less sex, because I usually end up skipping the sex scenes anyway, and if I see an NC-17 rating I'm likely to skip the story entirely because to me the NC-17/mature rating tends to make me think the story's going to be mainly focused on sex without much payoff for my characterization-junkie self. I know that's not entirely fair because there's a lot of good slash out there where the sex scene is really a very minor part of the story, but since I *know* I don't read for the sex and, in my current fandom, there's no shortage of fic to choose from, I've generally been skipping the smut and going for the PG-to-R stories instead.

It's not that I have a problem with sex, or sex scenes in fiction; it's just that 99% of the time, I find them dull, repetitive, and contributing nothing to either the plot or characterization. I think of the sex scenes as kind of analogous to what I call the "obligatory council scene" in fantasy and sci-fi -- you know, when they mention a council of some sort (e.g. in Harry Potter, Star Wars, LOTR) and you just KNOW that sooner or later you'll be forced to sit through a meeting of said council. Unless there's something else interesting going on during the council scene, I just skip to the end to find out how everything ended up. Ditto for sex scenes -- I've read a few that did pertain to the plot, where you really did have to read the whole thing to find out the "how" and "why" of certain plot points, and others that were so cute or funny or otherwise entertaining that I read the whole thing just for the adorableness. But usually I'll just flip to the end and enjoy the afterglow, so for me there may as well have been a fade-to-black; whatever care the author may have taken at crafting the sex is totally lost on me. I understand that other people do like reading the smut and so I don't mind that it's in there for other readers, but if I were to write slash (which I've sort of been dabbling with lately) I just can't see myself doing other than a fade-to-black because, well, for me, there's no point in writing something I'm not interested in writing, unless it absolutely HAS to be in there. I had a discussion recently with another writer friend about the "meanwhile, back at the ranch" scenes in both fanfic and published fiction. (You know, when something interesting is happening with the away team on the planet, and suddenly you get dropped into a half-chapter of everybody else on the ship trying to find them.) Those scenes bore me and I skip them as a reader, so I don't write them unless I absolutely have to in order for the plot to make sense.

[sholio]

Er, that should say "understood" in the first sentence, not "understand".

While I'm at it, though, lest I sound like an utter killjoy, I thought that I ought to mention that I *know* there's always going to be enjoyable stuff in fanfic (and in published fiction, for that matter) that isn't 100% germaine to the plot. Fanfic is, by its very nature, self-indulgent, whether it's indulging in h/c or porn, in characters talking endlessly about their relationships or having weird cracky adventures.

But, at the same time, there's absolutely no reason to put something in a fanfic if it isn't either a) enjoyable for you to write or b) plot-critical. I mean, just because smut is a slash genre convention doesn't mean that it *has* to be in there; I've read lots of fun, well-plotted and fulfilling slash stories that were G or PG rated, with nothing more than kissing. My earlier rant ... ish ... thing had a lot more to do with the fact that so many writers appear to include the obligatory sex scene for, as far as I can tell, no reason than because the story is slash, so smut *has* to be in there, regardless of whether it's well-written or necessary -- either that, or they view the entire rest of the story and all the character-interacty stuff as basically extraneous, with the sex scene being the story's raison d'etre. Either way, it does more to turn me off the story as a whole than if the sex hadn't been there at all.

And while I fully support the right of any author, fan or otherwise, to write whatever the heck they want ... I also reserve my own right to bitch unendingly about genre conventions that bug me -- regardless of whether it's a published or a fan genre. *g*

[terra-tenshi.livejournal.com]

If it makes you feel any better I can't write smut either. Of...course in my case I think it has more to do with being a female virgin than the fact that the characters tend to talk too much.

Or it could be that my characters usually end up dead/incapacitated before they're old enough for smut to be happening...

Whatever.

Oh yeah, and friending you because LJ stalking is my anti-drug.

ONLY 2 MORE DAYS UNTIL I CAN GO BACK TO WRITING! YAY!