woe is me

[xparrot]

I am just not cut out to be a slash writer. I can't write smut! I want to write smut. But the chars, they want to talk. For 8 pages! The hell, Lex? You want Clark. He wants you. What is the problem here? Just get down on your knees, boy. Geeze. It's not that difficult.

For some reason I can only write smut very late at night. Four in the morning when I'm supposed to be asleep, then I'll have all manner of sexy bodies in my head, writhing together under the sheets/against the wall/over the desk/in the mud/what-have-you. The rest of the time, might as well be a lost cause. Talking, though. I can write endless discussion anytime. I ought to stick to gen. But I like slash, too, darn it! If only it weren't haaaard...(and not in the good way.)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I am quite possibly the worst slash fan ever, in that half the time I don't even read the smut; I skim the sex to get to the juicy bits, which for me is the...talking. And angst. And cuteness. And basically all the relationshipping that happens in between. This is probably why I can be both a slash and a gen fan without much mental dissonance. Though it doesn't explain why I have pairings like Clark/Lex which I simply cannot see as gen (even when I don't always read and can't hardly write the slashy bits.)

Comments

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Nah, I'm always skimming the sex looking for good dialogue or characterization, or those sudden flashes of insight that make you feel what the character's about -- and show up in the most unlikely places. The what goes where details often don't hold my interest, which is probably why I write more limes than lemons.

On the other hand in writing, I have a fascination with plots where the non-romance portion would play out differently if the romance was missing.

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Also condradictory as it sounds, I like stories about characters forming and then struggling to maintain a relationship, without needing the details of the sex that's obviously a big factor in said relationship.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love stories like that! But building a real relationship is usually about more than sex - actually in most slash, the sex is classically the easiest part, since both of the chars are madly attracted to one another. There isn't much slash in which the major source of friction is the sex - or maybe there is in some fandoms. But while real life relationships can often make-or-break based on sex - incompatible sex drives can pretty much end relationships, I've seen it happen - in slash it's usually other factors that cause trouble. And those other factors will intrigue me.

I have a fascination with plots where the non-romance portion would play out differently if the romance was missing.

Oh, I like these, too! As I said, the Clex is one case that I cannot see their relationship as gen; the romance is always a factor. I draw a distinct line between slash and gen, because even pre-slash or G-rated slash reads and plays out differently than pure gen. Even when I tell readers my stories can be read either way, in my mind they're always one or the other...

[greenlady2.livejournal.com]

"I draw a distinct line between slash and gen, because even pre-slash or G-rated slash reads and plays out differently than pure gen."

Yes, yes, yes. I've had people recommend gen stories to me as 'indistinguishable from Slash, just without the sex', and they weren't at all like Slash. That's why I say it's not the sex that truly distinguishes Slash from gen. It's the romance, the way the characters look at each other, and think about each other. The centre of gravity of the story is in a different place if the story is Slash. The two characters exert a gravitational pull on each other, because they're lovers, life mates, or at the very least, they want to be, they're intending to be. Whereas in gen, no matter how fond the characters may be as friends, they're not going to be living together, sleeping together, for perhaps the rest of their lives.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...I think I have to essay more about this. As a gen fan, I get thrown myself when I'm rec'ed a slash story and told it reads like gen, just with the sex! (because it happens! ^^) It never does, at least in the context of the sexualized relationship. (Other relationships may be delightfully gen; I've read some slash for the relationships between the non-paired chars...)

Though it's interesting, this pull you describe. Some gen fans prefer gen because we find relationships stronger when they're based on more than sex - and much gen fic concerns families, or people who become like families, who will be together for perhaps all their lives. Platonic relationships, to some people, can be as powerful or more powerful than the sexual, and that's what gen fen often go for...

Ahh, like I said, I need to write more on this. As a gen and a slash fan I'm fascinated by the differences and even more the similarities...we're both all about the relationships; it's just the mechanics of the relationships that differ...

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

It’s funny, but what I’m really in love with is sex as a metaphor rather than as a verb. Sex is one of the most powerful and evocative symbols we have – and it can be used to mean so many things: alienation, trust, love, friendship, comfort, a seize the moment kind of thing. It can even be a form of communication.. So I guess, odd as it sounds, I’m fascinated by the things sex can mean or imply, rather than a description of the act itself.

Since it takes me a day to think of what I mean to say: what I meant when I said that I’m fascinated with plots where the non-romantic portion of the plot would play out differently if the romance was removed is that I like stories (both reading and writing) that have a romance and a gen component. However for the gen storyline to move forward, obviously, the characters have to make decisions and take actions. I don’t mean big decisions like “Will I save the world today?” but small ones, like “Will I hear this person out, or dismiss what they have to say without listening?” or “Will I stay in the room or go for a walk?” But these decisions and actions aren’t made in a vacuum. In fact, since they are seemingly inconsequential, they are even more likely to be influenced by their moods, experiences, hopes or fears for the future, etc. But it is these small decisions and actions that move the story forward – both the gen and romance portions. So I like the idea that if the characters making those decisions and taking those actions were not in a relationship, they might very well make other choices and do other things – in other words both halves of the story would fall apart.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

So I like the idea that if the characters making those decisions and taking those actions were not in a relationship, they might very well make other choices and do other things – in other words both halves of the story would fall apart.

Well, that makes sense! It sounds like to me, what you enjoy is a validation of the relationship - that it has a profound impact on the chars in question, that they would not be the same chars if they were not in the relationship. It's the difference between a casual hook-up and a genuine relationship, I think. A hook-up, the sex might have an impact, but it doesn't really matter who it's with. While as in a relationship, who one is partnered with is crucial; it can't be just anyone, or else the relationship, the story, the chars, would all be different...

Which is what separates most slash (or het) smut from porn. Porn, it doesn't matter who the people are, just that they're having sex. Slash, it's absolutely important who they're are, even if they're just having sex...

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

It's not so much a validation of a relationship, because my favorite story are ones that don't necessarily focus on the relationship -- but I love seeing sort of how a relationship integrates itself into the character's lives, how it subtly influences their actions, how the other reltaionships in their lives shift around this new element, how it settles into itself. I guess at heart what I am is a dynamics junkie. Often besides parental bonds, romantic/sexual relationships are among the most intense and complicated. (Frodo and Sam excepted -- and even there one of the things that made the ending so poignant but also so bearable was Sam had a family to go home to.

Possibly it's also that I see a much more blurred line between the dynamics of sexual romantic relationships and other ones -- romantic friendship and family included. I tend to see them all in terms of emotion and sort of how the characters relate to each other, but with different elements (sex, parenting, whatever), but having a lot of the same foundation internal conflicts and communication flows, etc. So I guess I tend to see slash and gen as more on a continuum where other people see a real split between them based on whether the characters are screwing or not (lol).

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Wow, I really am more intelligent when I have some time to think... there's probably a life lesson in there somewhere.

I think that often, in terms of the way people feel and the internal conflicts they have and the how the way they relate to people gets played out, and whether or how they form attachments (or don't) there isn't as much difference among the kind of attachments being formed as is often perceived.

When I look at my 8 year old daughter and her friends: she's upset because one of her friends will make a big show of being her friend on day and then ignore her the next. She has two best friends -- one likes her best, but although she likes them both a lot, she likes the other friend more. Sometimes it works out and they all play happily, some days there are hurt feelings all around. If you think about it, in a decade or so, these are the same dynamics and conflicts that will play out around forming romantic/sexual relationships as well.

One of the biggest internal conflicts I have as a parent is sort of parsing out what I need for myself as opposed to my responsibilities as a parent (and in yet another context my responsiblities as an employee) and sort of where I, myself as a person fit into this. This sort of self vs. being part of something is the same kind of conflict inherent in romantic/sexual relationships as well.

So I guess for me the underlying dynamics, communications, and conflicts remain, they simply get played out in different contexts.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much how I see it; I like reading about all relationships, not just romantic, and don't feel one has more weight than another. A sexual relationsip at its inception is different from most others because of the intensity of feelings involved, and also because society tends to put a lot of weight on it (American society more than others, more for women than for men) but when a romance becomes long-term it becomes a family relationship anyway...(I've always loved stories about married couples, because I love family dynamics, and a married couple is as much about family as romance...)

Hmm, I don't know what I'm saying here! But I think you're right. (and I could go on here about the especially American obsession with sex that wants to interpret most relationships from that angle, so that guys aren't shown hugging on TV for fear of being taken as gay, and while there's nothing wrong with that anyway, friends can hug too...but I'll spare you that rant!)

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

I think for me, it just isn't as big a division (slash and gen) as it is for most people. This could be because I rarely read anything that focuses solely on describing sex in loving detail, so the slash I read focuses on relationships in the context of whatever is going on, as does the gen. In fact when someone asks me to describe a story, I usually have to take a moment to remember which it is...