Well, you know I adore the SitLR (Stranger in the Living Room) for the first Mary Sue definition. :) I like that it describes what readers of fanfic specifically do not like about finding an unknown character in their midst. It's genderless and descriptive and... okay, it does tend towards negative (who wants a stranger showing up in their living room?) but the reason for the negative is in the name. Which would hopefully mean young fanfic writers hoping for more readers (if that's what they're going for) will see that it's the stranger and not the gender that is the issue.
As for types two and three... Honestly, I think they can be combined. Because "Mary Sue" is a negative. We're not just talking about an "everyman" or a "hero" (as #2 describes) but a hero or everyman who fails. And the reason for that failure could be because of #3 (as the author's darling they warp the world, for example) or for something else, but the important point is, they've failed to come across as their creator meant them to.
Of course, that sort of failure isn't limited to the types of characters in #2. They can be a sidekick or special guest star or what have you. I think the important bit is in the fact they've failed and also in how badly they've failed. Quoting from my last reply to you in our discussion: "It's a character that sets the audience's teeth on edge, right? Not just a character that doesn't quite work, but one that crosses over into "flames! flames on the sides of my face! breathing heaving breaths!" type of does-not-work."
I have no idea what sort of name to give that type of character-fail. I do think it needs to be descriptive, like SitLR, so that the issue is right there in the name. I strongly believe it needs to be genderless. And it'd be nice if it showed that there was some personal opinion going on there (one person's character-fail is another person's darling, after all). So maybe something that suggests the emotional aspect of the failure? What I'll probably end up doing (because I've decided to not use "Mary Sue" anymore... we'll see if I can stick to it *g*) is use various terms and phrases until one sticks with me. Or until someone else comes up with something brilliant like seekergeek with SitLR. :)
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winterfish
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Date: 2010-04-21 07:53 pm (UTC)As for types two and three... Honestly, I think they can be combined. Because "Mary Sue" is a negative. We're not just talking about an "everyman" or a "hero" (as #2 describes) but a hero or everyman who fails. And the reason for that failure could be because of #3 (as the author's darling they warp the world, for example) or for something else, but the important point is, they've failed to come across as their creator meant them to.
Of course, that sort of failure isn't limited to the types of characters in #2. They can be a sidekick or special guest star or what have you. I think the important bit is in the fact they've failed and also in how badly they've failed. Quoting from my last reply to you in our discussion: "It's a character that sets the audience's teeth on edge, right? Not just a character that doesn't quite work, but one that crosses over into "flames! flames on the sides of my face! breathing heaving breaths!" type of does-not-work."
I have no idea what sort of name to give that type of character-fail. I do think it needs to be descriptive, like SitLR, so that the issue is right there in the name. I strongly believe it needs to be genderless. And it'd be nice if it showed that there was some personal opinion going on there (one person's character-fail is another person's darling, after all). So maybe something that suggests the emotional aspect of the failure? What I'll probably end up doing (because I've decided to not use "Mary Sue" anymore... we'll see if I can stick to it *g*) is use various terms and phrases until one sticks with me. Or until someone else comes up with something brilliant like seekergeek with SitLR. :)