Thanks to another post about Mary Sues and the aggressive hate people in fandom show to their authors a few days ago, http://astridv.livejournal.com/187934.html - I've been trying to figure out what my own thoughts on the matter are.
I don't have anything eloquent to say or add to the discussion yet. This is really just me thanking you for giving me more info and food for thought and a bit of incoherent babbling about my thoughts.
I pretty much fall under the category of, I read it for the canon characters. I don't mind original characters because they can sometimes allow me to see interactions that just won't happen with other canon characters for some reason or another.
As far as turning canon characters into Mary Sues, I'm reminded of a review of a fanfiction in which the reviewer was generally positive about the writing, but made a comment about not liking the concept of one of the characters was given a new type of magic that hadn't existed - went from a water mage to also a storm mage essentially. It struck me as odd because in the source material, a stone mage also became a metal mage, when there was no such thing beforehand.
I'm not sure where I'm going with that, but it's also sitting in there as my opinions are percolating.
I'm very undecided. I think people can be way too vicious about other people's ideas. You won't see me sharing my self insert or fulfillment fantasies, not because I'm prudent or anything, but because I'm a coward. I have a lot of respect for the girl that puts her Mary Sue story out there, even if I don't really want to read it. At the same time, I hate it when someone writing a 'Mary Sue' story acts like they've achieved the pinnacle of literary genius.
One fandom that has really made me think lately is Dragon Age: Origins fanfiction. Because the main character's appearance, gender and abilities are fluid, (and there's several back histories to choose from) there's a lot of almost entirely original characters. A lot. Thing is, some of them are good - characters developed using the world and history provided. Some of them are shameless self inserts that make me hit the back button like mad. And I can't tell which are which before I read the story. In other fandoms, it's pretty obvious just from the summary if there's an OC prominently featured, so I can avoid it.
The fact that I used the word shameless self insert is probably significant. I don't really want the person to be ashamed of their writing. I guess I just want an awareness that the story is a personal fantasy and self fulfillment, and while some people may want to share that fantasy, others won't want to, so they shouldn't try to pass it off as a normal fanfic or justify it.
Oooh! Canon Mary Sues - Anything written by Laurell K. Hamilton. Her main characters all physically resemble her, develop insane world breaking powers and get laid by multiple attractive men. She also writes in the first person.
I don't like her Anita Blake series - because Anita started off a relatively normal powered human with definite leanings towards monogamy who hunted monsters, but over the course of the books became a hyper-sexed, what the heck is monogamy, oh its got fur or fangs so I'll bang it character with near godlike powers. Not my cup of tea.
Conversely, I do like her Merry Gentry series, in which the main character has godlike powers and a harem of sexy males. Why? Because that's how it started out, and it made no bones about it.
/end stream of consciousness
In summary, I want the people writing Mary Sues to be upfront and unapologetic about the fact that they're writing a Mary Sue, and not have it passed off as something else. I don't want them to try to justify it - because they shouldn't have to do so. They are perfectly within their rights to write and post it. Just as I'm perfectly within my rights to read it or not.
And uh, I don't think you know me. Sorry for just poking my head in. Err, hi? I'm a chronic random fandom lurker who is now randomly lurking around your journal.
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winterfish
no subject
Date: 2010-04-25 02:58 pm (UTC)I don't have anything eloquent to say or add to the discussion yet. This is really just me thanking you for giving me more info and food for thought and a bit of incoherent babbling about my thoughts.
I pretty much fall under the category of, I read it for the canon characters. I don't mind original characters because they can sometimes allow me to see interactions that just won't happen with other canon characters for some reason or another.
As far as turning canon characters into Mary Sues, I'm reminded of a review of a fanfiction in which the reviewer was generally positive about the writing, but made a comment about not liking the concept of one of the characters was given a new type of magic that hadn't existed - went from a water mage to also a storm mage essentially. It struck me as odd because in the source material, a stone mage also became a metal mage, when there was no such thing beforehand.
I'm not sure where I'm going with that, but it's also sitting in there as my opinions are percolating.
I'm very undecided. I think people can be way too vicious about other people's ideas. You won't see me sharing my self insert or fulfillment fantasies, not because I'm prudent or anything, but because I'm a coward. I have a lot of respect for the girl that puts her Mary Sue story out there, even if I don't really want to read it. At the same time, I hate it when someone writing a 'Mary Sue' story acts like they've achieved the pinnacle of literary genius.
One fandom that has really made me think lately is Dragon Age: Origins fanfiction. Because the main character's appearance, gender and abilities are fluid, (and there's several back histories to choose from) there's a lot of almost entirely original characters. A lot. Thing is, some of them are good - characters developed using the world and history provided. Some of them are shameless self inserts that make me hit the back button like mad. And I can't tell which are which before I read the story. In other fandoms, it's pretty obvious just from the summary if there's an OC prominently featured, so I can avoid it.
The fact that I used the word shameless self insert is probably significant. I don't really want the person to be ashamed of their writing. I guess I just want an awareness that the story is a personal fantasy and self fulfillment, and while some people may want to share that fantasy, others won't want to, so they shouldn't try to pass it off as a normal fanfic or justify it.
Oooh! Canon Mary Sues - Anything written by Laurell K. Hamilton. Her main characters all physically resemble her, develop insane world breaking powers and get laid by multiple attractive men. She also writes in the first person.
I don't like her Anita Blake series - because Anita started off a relatively normal powered human with definite leanings towards monogamy who hunted monsters, but over the course of the books became a hyper-sexed, what the heck is monogamy, oh its got fur or fangs so I'll bang it character with near godlike powers. Not my cup of tea.
Conversely, I do like her Merry Gentry series, in which the main character has godlike powers and a harem of sexy males. Why? Because that's how it started out, and it made no bones about it.
/end stream of consciousness
In summary, I want the people writing Mary Sues to be upfront and unapologetic about the fact that they're writing a Mary Sue, and not have it passed off as something else. I don't want them to try to justify it - because they shouldn't have to do so. They are perfectly within their rights to write and post it. Just as I'm perfectly within my rights to read it or not.
And uh, I don't think you know me. Sorry for just poking my head in. Err, hi? I'm a chronic random fandom lurker who is now randomly lurking around your journal.