on kid!Loki's writer

[xparrot]

(...I would put this up on Tumblr but then I can't talk about it! Agh Tumblr why do you suck with interaction...) Found an interview with the Journey into Mystery writer Kieron Gillen, who says some interesting things, the most intriguing to me being how he is using the cyclical nature of comic books to story-telling advantage. And then he goes onto talk about why he approves of Hiddleston's Loki and aggggh...I'm in that uncomfortable place as a fan, when you've newly fallen for a storyteller and are loving their stuff, but are not sure how far you can trust them, whether they're going to fumble your heart and break it, or deliberately crack it open like an egg, or whether it was safe in their hands after all...

sholio was just discussing in comments something I've complained about before myself, the frustration of the serial aspect of the comic book genre, that the status quo conventions mean that there can ultimately be no real character development. Which ties into some of what I was trying to say about sympathizing with villains before - one of the reasons I find supervillains sympathetic is because due to the stories they're in, they don't really have a choice about being what they are. Their villainness trumps their humanity as characters, and there's something tragic about that.

Gillen puts it thus:

The fundamental story at the heart of “JiM” is, literally, can the god of evil change? That’s the central story that runs through it. Is he doomed to repeat himself, or can be he become someone else? Kid Loki is genuinely lovable; people love that little kid! And if this was in any other media, if it was any other story, the books wouldn’t have its underlying sadness. I think in our in culture, if you have this basic story – here’s the god of evil and he’s been reincarnated, and he is going to basically try and not become the god of evil again – if that was told in a movie, or told as anything else, you would assume he would make it. Our culture enjoys telling stories about that. Conversely, we’re in the situation of writing in the Marvel Universe, where there is the weight of continuity pressing down, and in some way everyone expects Loki to become evil. As much as he’s lovable, as much as people like him, they expect it to all go wrong, so people buy into his story in a way they wouldn’t necessarily buy outside the Marvel Universe. It’s one of those very, very rare situations where the weight of commerce and fan expectation works in the book’s favor.

That’s the core story, though: can people change. Or rather, can this particular person change.

YES WE DO LOVE KID!LOKI VERY MUCH ;____________;

And he's totally right, that is the draw - and it makes me so wonder where the story is going, because (putting aside how I find the idea that someone can't change, that someone could just fundamentally be evil, so horribly depressing and antithetical to how I see the world that it would ruin the whole story for me entirely - but disregarding that) to just give in and turn Loki evil again is not only tragic but also so expected, that I'm genuinely curious how it could be done without being boring (and JiM is decidedly not boring!) Gillen has repeatedly said that he has a plan, that's he's known what the last page of JiM will be since he started it (and it'll be within the year, from what he's said)...and I prefer stories that do have endings, that come to some conclusion, because otherwise you get...well, comic books, forever circling back on themselves because they've covered all the other ground.

But given that, what will this ending possibly be?

...Reading on, heh, yeah, he definitely knows his influences:

"[JiM is] “Sandman” in the Marvel Universe...with a laugh track."

(and he goes on to admit that the "Terrorism Myth" arc specifically is a friendly piss-take on Sandman and yeah I'd wondered why that dude looked SO MUCH like Morpheus...)

He also talks at the end about how he likes movie!Loki specifically because he shakes up the old perception of Loki:

Loki will no longer be able to go back to being a cackling old man. Let’s say I was kicked off the book tomorrow, and someone came on and basically said, “Ok, we’re making Loki evil immediately.” If they did that, I don’t think they’d go back to “old ugly guy.” I think fundamentally Loki is someone who is conflicted, and is now preferred in the slightly hot, good-looking way, shall we say?[...] He’s not a cackling monster, he’s a man with needs and all that great stuff. [Hiddleston's Loki]'s not a direct influence because I was doing this before “Thor” happened, but I was very pleased with that happen and seeing that take on the character become the culturally dominant one, because that’s the way I write him. You see people who come from the movie who go into “Journey into Mystery” and even though it’s Kid Loki, they get it. They can see how that links to this other character they have an understanding of from seeing the movie. He’s a complicated and conflicted guy, even if he’s 12 or 13.

...He knows the character, knows how Loki works, how his appeal works...but will he do good or evil with that knowledge? Kieron Gillen, stop writing things I like, it is not fair to make me like your stuff, when pretty much everything said about "Everything Burns" has convinced me that I should be piling big old feather mattresses under my fangirl heart before I read it...

ETA: if you needed another reason to read JiM - this is why I love this series:

Comments

[josephina-x.livejournal.com]

Ok, this is kind your fault, cause I ended up reading kid!Loki in JiM because of you *shakes fist* but...

I have not read any spoilers for the end arc (though I have read your ficlet), but...

I hope (wish!) that it would go something like this... (only more badass! because I am a novice at Marvel stuff)

:: Let Us Begin! ::

kid!Loki needs help for... something-or-another that's very dire, and does more-or-less what happened in your fic, gets swapped with Ikol-the-magpie.

adult!Loki pretends to still be kid!Loki in kid!Loki's body (god of mischief and lies, right? right) and kid!Loki-as-Ikol gets basically messed up in the process -- can't talk, whatever. Not that anybody would listen, of course (d'oh).

Somebody (one of the Asgard bullies) takes a potshot at him and hits
him, cause he's not so great at the flying. (He's hurt, but mostly just dazed.)

Volstagg ends up taking him home under less-than-auspicious circumstances, feeling that something's off (since he's 'planned' with kid!Loki before and knows old!Loki and, yeah...)

Um, yeah, and then his kids and wife say something about fowl for dinner, and kid!Loki freaks ('cause of that not real funny joke about Volstagg eating him from way back when) and 'escapes'!

...aaaaaand runs straight into Iron Man (ow).

And ends up actually hurt from that one.

Iron Man's all like 'oh crap, I hit a bird!' and takes him home, no clue what the hell to do with him.

And gives him to Jarvis.

And, uh, kid!Loki-the-magpie can't escape so much because he's all got a broken wing now. *heh*

(Meanwhile, Loki is being all messed up and doing his thing, of course. Not that kid!Loki can do anything about that but be really, really sore about it when he catches glances at news reports and internet stuff, because he's a freaking bird now, and can't really do much of anything except heal up and try not to get eaten. He's also pretty sure that if he lets the Avengers know who he is, they'll stomp him just as bad as the Asgardians, because of how Iron Man acted about him jacking that guy's car before...)

And, uh, at some New Avengers/Mighty Avengers meet-up? Dr. Strange does a double-take at kid!loki-the-magpie-Ikol on Jarvis' shoulder and is all 'what the hell?'

And there is Strange mysticism and stuff, and kid!Loki has his old body back! (...sort-of -- rather, Ikol-as-magpie-body gets transformed, and there are dangling issues of kid!Loki maybe needing to learn transformation magic really, really, soon, but whatever)

...And Mephisto shows up -right- -then- wanting his due. (Because he's a jerk.) (Also because he's got a better chance of getting it out of kid!Loki, who is kind of reeling from everything and hadn't planned any of this -at- -all-, than old!Loki, who is a right bastard and totally at the top of his game at-the-moment...)

And Jarvis is all like, 'hell, no' and says Loki is his charge.

And Mephisto is all like, 'ok, -you- can pay it then'.

And the Avengers teams who are there are all like 'hell, no, bitch!' and gearing up to fight.

And Jarvis is all *crosses arms* and calmly like, 'Fine, then.' (Because he is a BAMF. And kind of had an inkling of his hurt magpie not being just a magpie before Strange was all '??!?!'.)

And kid!Loki is all 'whaaaaaaaAAAAAATTT?!?!? Agh. No. Aagh no, aAAGH!' *waves arms around wildly and barely refraining from tearing out all his hair*

Because he is kind of maybe just a -little- attached to Jarvis now, because he was nice to him (when he was a bird). Not that kid!Loki would ever admit that. Ever. --But mainly because Mephisto vs. Avengers would go really,really horribly and he kinda needs them alive for later planning. Maybe. Probably. He's sure something will come up where that will be helpful. (Also, he figures he'd probably get caught in the crossfire, anyway.)

[josephina-x.livejournal.com]

And, uh, Mephisto ends up making kid!Loki give him his crown and renounce all ties to Asgard as the 'recompense' (and is all *hidden eg* about it). Which kid!Loki does, and is all nonchalant and 'whatever' about it, in a big speech about how he doesn't care, and they all suck in Asgard anyway, and blah-blah they've already got a Loki and don't need/want him anyway, who cares? he doesn't! nope! and how they renounced their ties to him first. (And is really upset and cries over it later when he's alone, but y'know, details.) And then they're square, Mephisto leaves, no huge beat down (awwww).

And kid!Loki is all like, 'uh, ok, I'm just gonna... sneak out, in plain sight, yeah...' But Jarvis is all like, 'yeah, no, I'm adopting you, and I shall call you Luke.'

And the Avengers are like o_O (wtf)

And kid!Loki is like, 'uh, yeah, I, no, --wait, what was the question?'

And then kid!Loki is all 'wait, no, I'm Loki'

Jarvis: 'And Luke'

kid!Loki: 'No... Loki. --Ok, well, sure I got swapped with Ikol, and I know there's another Loki, from before, and I'm the new one, and sort of still a magpie but not really, but I'm Loki. Really. -I'm- Loki. L-o-k-i. (you do know who Loki is, right? Loki is Loki.)'

Jarvis: 'And you're Luke'

kid!Loki: 'wait, no, I have a name, you can't just go and-- no, no naming! no naming! this is a bad idea. BAD IDEA.'

Jarvis: 'and no running off either, I'm also adopting you'

kid!Loki: 'what? no! adoption is bad -- adoption never goes well for me nonono'

Jarvis: 'You are Luke and I am adopting you and that's final, young man'

kid!Loki: 'WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU I AM LOKI' (secret happiness at being wanted yay)

Aaaaand Avengers are all like various stages of o_O and x_x and 'we don't want -anything- to do with this, this is such a bad idea Jarvis what the -hell-' ..until Jarvis gives them The Look and they fall in line (sorta-mostly, with grumbling and the whole 'we are watching youuuu' thing).

So, yeah, kid!Loki is now also Luke, and maybe arguing with Jarvis over a last name ('for the adoption forms' 'no wait -- aaagh you crazy mortal!!!'), and yeah...

Which leaves old!Loki stuck in the Asgardian cycle, and wanting Ragnarok and trying to get everybody out of the cycle again/still, including himself, wanting all that change.

While kid!Loki is completely out of the cycle now -- has a name, renounced ties (oops, that actually had a larger consequence he doesn't understand until later) -- and everything is changing for him. So, now he's 'free', but he's -so- free that he can't actually impact the cycle anymore (not from being completely on the outside, *@!&#@!&#@!!!) ...which means he can't really help Thor or stop the worst stuff from happening or any of it.

So, yeah, old!Loki's still caught and wanting out. kid!Loki's out and wanting back in.

Kinda a complete clusterfuck *heh*

(And now kid!Loki is trying to scheme to figure out how to get his crown back, only Jarvis Is Watching and being all reasonable and shit *g*.)



(...I would write this as a fic, but it would come out even worse than this. *nods*)

Would this one break your fangirl heart, or does this almost make it better? :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, yes, kid!Loki somehow ending up with the Young Avengers/New Mutants/some other group is a common suggestion! And it would definitely be better than no kid!Loki...but kid!Loki separated from Thor would make me sadface (also I don't know comics!Jarvis at all, the only version I'm familiar with is a computer, which confuses ^^;) Kid!Loki and old!Loki existing simultaneously and at odds with each other would be awesome, though, however it happened. (especially if Leah and Thori stay along with kid!Loki...!)

[josephina-x.livejournal.com]

*g* I can see the appeal in that!

Mmm, I -think- that comics!Jarvis is kinda to Tony Stark growing up (being supportive / more of a father figure) in Marvel, similar to the way Alfred is to Bruce Wayne/Batman in the DCU?(??) Not entirely sure. But he did take care of Tony for the longest time when he was a crazy adult Iron Man -him-, so if anybody would be capable of handling kid!Loki and setting boundaries and getting any respect at all from the kid, I figure it'd be him.

*g* I figure Leah and Thori would probably show up at some point -- Leah to drop off Thori (not 'cause Thori wants to be there, he's already found the master he wants, and that ain't kid!Loki) and also to 'make fun' of kid!Loki. Mostly because Leah's orders are to serve Loki, but there's two of them now, so the only "one" she has to follow are direct orders that she gets from both of them that are both in agreement, so now she's mostly a free agent (and likes to torment Loki, so...)

Jarvis would probably be ok with 'playdates' with her, while kid!Loki-Luke would be all 'arrrgh nooooo!' *while being dragged off*

And there might be a looming threat of Leah getting adopted too because she's all wonderfully nice to Jarvis, who also seems to like her (and this drives kid!Loki to distraction more than a little bit of course ;)

--But of course old!Loki and kid!Loki would be at odds! (opposites/half-shadows of each other, right?) and Leah would totally provoke that shit as much as possible so she wouldn't get caught up in have to do things for either/both of them, of course ;)

[josephina-x.livejournal.com]

And yeah, I wouldn't want them (Thor and kid!Loki) separated either, but that would probably have to happen for awhile if the two of them existed simultaneously (because old!Loki would plan for that -- ensuring he was close enough to get things done, because he is surprised by kid!Loki's actions -- the young mischief-maker isn't -predictable- enough for old!Loki to plan on using him effectively, so I doubt he'd be ok with kid!Loki being near Thor in whatever plans he'd be enacting). Otherwise, old!Loki would probably go straight to killing kid!Loki outright (and that is worse than sadface for me).

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, see, I wonder if old!Loki actually could bring himself to kill kid!Loki - Loki does rather care about Loki, after all; and Ikol seems, hmm, 'fond' of him in a way that makes me think that Ikol/old!Loki does think of his younger self as still *himself*. (kid!Loki doesn't as much think this way because old!Loki is so very much what he defines himself as *not*...)

Hah, if Jarvis raised Tony Stark then yeah, he might have a chance...well, maybe not being Loki's guardian (I doubt anyone, mortal or divine, is up to that task!) but mentor, at least...

Leah not following orders because they would have to agree on them - heh, I could see her playing them off each other like that! Though I can't see kid!Loki protesting playing with her; he's the one who wants to be BFFs with Leah, after all. And she couldn't get adopted by Jarvis; she's still Hela's handmaiden, after all, and would not accept another guardian...(heh, I may be over-thinking this!)

[bluepard.livejournal.com]

I think you left out the best part of that article:

Loki is pretty much Bowie – he’s got the androgyny, the eye-liner and nailvarnish. Hela is pretty much Lady Gaga – she turns up with the costumes. Mephisto is pretty much the RollingStones. All of the Rolling Stones, rolled into one, in that sort of “Sympathyfor the Devil” decadent-ness, with great sideburns.

Just hilarious. This is my first book of his that I'm following so I'm not sure how much to trust him. I trust him by his work on this alone, even though I've heard some people don't like his other work, well, some writers are better at certain characters than others and he does the BEST Kid Loki.

I haven't read your fic yet (I am so behind on fic) but I have my own hopes on how they'll resolve this without destroying the tiny god of mischief.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

He also did some of the post-JMS/Siege Thor stuff, and I liked that, so...? But yeah, my love is pretty much entirely on the basis of kid!Loki, but he is doing awesome things with that, so...love him as a writer, even though I don't know if I trust him yet! (And he's said that JiM is pretty much the story he most wants to write, closest to his heart and all?)

My speculation fic is very short, and is rather worst-case scenario (I try to expect the worse, leads to less disappointment! ^^;) My best case is that Ikol gets reborn as old!Loki and kid!Loki is also around to go up against him - dueling gods of mischief would wreak havoc worthy of a trickster! The thing is, the more I think about it I can't figure out a way to off kid!Loki that would satisfyingly carry through on the rest of the story. And JiM has had surprisingly...happy? endings overall (like how the Disir were resolved) so for the whole thing to end in tragedy...seems wrong. But...aggggh I don't know!

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I might check out this series for the art alone. Do they change artists or does it remain in the same hands?

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The artists change - tragically, because the first volume is in this gorgeous painterly style, some of the loveliest art I've seen in Western comics (in my less than informed opinion!) The artist who did the panel I posted above is my second favorite and seems to be the series regular now; they've got a nice energy.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's one thing about US comics I'm not crazy about, though I see why they have to split the workload to churn out books at the rate they do. But if this artist is their quasi-regular, that works for me. I like what I've seen of his style.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Eh, shounen mangaka put out 18 pages a week! Admittedly only b&w (and they have upwards of a dozen assistants) but still - consistent art does make a difference, especially when a writer and an artist are used to working together. I've seen a few American comics series with constant collaborations, but yeah, it's unusual. And I think the comics do suffer for it. But Journey into Mystery does pretty well, art-wise.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

Eh, shounen mangaka put out 18 pages a week!

Man, yeah, Hiromu Arakawa put out 1 chapter a month for 10 years without ever missing a deadline, and had a kid along the way. But I have no idea how she did that, even with three assistants. It's, like, superhuman.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

GanGan's schedule is rough, but the mangaka of the weekly shounen have it even harder - Shounen Jump is usually publishes 50 weeks out of the year, and an average weekly chapter for the series in it is 18 pages. Oda Eichirou, the artist of One Piece, rarely misses more than a single week a year. (Which is why One Piece is 15 years old and 66 volumes long!) And Arakawa and Oda are scripting, too! Yeah, it's no wonder a lot of mangaka burn out or quit with stories incomplete...it's an insane industry!

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised a lot of them burn out. I cringe just reading "18 pages a week". I had gotten to a point myself where I was illustrating 8-10 books a year, sometimes five at a time, and I could feel I was skirting closer and closer to burnout. It can feel like a rush and you get so used to the constant adrenaline you don't even know how to come done from that, but once you're getting past a certain age you can't pull those hours any more and stay healthy. I don't know, I wish the industry would treat artists mor like people and less like art-producing machines. Also, a pony please.

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

The thing is... I'd be oddly okay if it ended with Loki back to status quo? Because I like kid!Loki, yes, but I like all of Loki's incarnations, grown-up or female or Ikol. Loki was a likable character quite some time before JiM, at least since Asgard came to Broxton. And it was adult!Loki who realized that he's doomed to repeat himself and decided that he didn't like it. He was his own redeeming force even WHILE he was evil, and that's the sort of internal contradiction I love about Loki. And if you look at Ikol - he says "I'm evil you" but he's been remarkably unevil the whole time.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be less pleased with the ending if Loki DID end up completely redeemed and accepted by the other Asgardians. I like him best when he's on the edge between good and evil, and on the margins of Asgardian society. And I like the sense of doom, too, because that's intrinsically Norse myth, plus the cyclical nature of their character arcs goes two ways: on the one hand it means that Loki is always doomed to go evil, but on the other hand it means that he never goes completely evil, because even at his worst he always already carries the potential for redemption within him.

If it does end with Loki back on the villain track, then I hope it ends with a wink - yes, he's not a hero, but the mischievous kid with a chance at redemption is a part of him, and he's self-aware enough to remember that and defy his fate now and then.

Another ending I'd like is the one where kid!Loki dooms himself/Asgard with his myriad deals with evil forces and despairs and goes "I can't escape my fate" and then Ikol takes the bullet for him/them because actually, somebody was redeemed in all this, but it wasn't kid!Loki - there's not much to redeem about kid Loki, after all - it was Ikol all along.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I found two titles that match the description, can you say which one comes earlier in the timeline? link 1 (http://www.amazon.de/Fear-Itself-Journey-Into-Mystery/dp/078514840X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books-intl-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1339098440&sr=1-2), link 2 (http://www.amazon.de/Journey-Into-Mystery-Itself-Fallout/dp/078515261X/ref=pd_bxgy_eb_img_b)

[bluepard.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, it was him writing on non-Thor characters they didn't like. *shrugs*

Yeah, same here. It's worrying that he's sticking with the same ending, apparently, because JiM was supposed to be this tiny thing but grew out of control so the old ending might not fit anymore, y'know?

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeaaah...pro artist is a demanding job, I don't envy you guys! (a lot of the comic book artists I criticize I'm aware would be a lot better if they only had the time to be...)

As for the books ahhh, comics, why must you be so confusing? What's the problem with just numbering your volumes?? >.> JiM: Fear Itself is first, JiM: Fear Itself Fallout is the second. (JiM: Terrorism Myth is the next but I don't think it's out yet.)

Those first two volumes are so titled because there was a massive Marvel x-over event called "Fear Itself" and those books were tie-ins - they tell a contained story but it's taking place against the backdrop of the larger story, so if it seems like there's a lot of action with other characters happening off-screen, that's why. ("Fear Itself" is pretty lousy, but the JiM story is great.)

(depending on how you much you care, you might also want to read my first post on kid!Loki, as it sets up a lot of story details - but I read them originally not knowing most of it, so...)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

adult!Loki in the last few years has had interesting stuff done with him, and I appreciate Gillen's point that especially with his movie persona being so popular, people are going to expect a more complicated character than what came before...but I really love what they've done with kid!Loki; he fascinates me and I want more with him! (okay, and the little kid-big brother dynamic is a major weakness of mine, I'll admit...)

At the same time...I don't know if I trust any writer besides Gillen with him; kid!Loki of the Thor comics isn't nearly as interesting. So if Gillen ends his JiM story, I might prefer kid!Loki going with him. As long as some of him was preserved (I wouldn't want old!Loki to lose kid!Loki's memories...)

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be less pleased with the ending if Loki DID end up completely redeemed and accepted by the other Asgardians. I like him best when he's on the edge between good and evil, and on the margins of Asgardian society.

This I totally agree with! A lot of folks also want kid!Loki to leave and be adopted by some other superhero group (the teen ones mostly) and I'm torn about that, because it would be cute, but yeah, the character would lose a lot of edge. I like that he's not a total good guy, that he's something of an anti-hero, that he is deeply distrusted and often deserves it. He's a liar and a trickster still (part of the reason I love kid!Loki is because he is such a good trickster; the limits on his powers force him to use deception and manipulation to the exclusion of anything else.)

And yeah, the problem with edge characters is it's hard to keep them there forever, sooner or later they tend to fall off one side or the other...
(ETA: actually if kid!Loki were fully adopted back into Asgardia...I suspect nothing would drive him evil quicker. Right now he's struggling to find his place, to prove himself worthy; if he wins that struggle, he'll need something else to resist against, and all too quickly it would be the acceptance of people around him, I fear...he'd need to test the limits, and that would lead to trouble fast...)

Another ending I'd like is the one where kid!Loki dooms himself/Asgard with his myriad deals with evil forces and despairs and goes "I can't escape my fate" and then Ikol takes the bullet for him/them because actually, somebody was redeemed in all this, but it wasn't kid!Loki - there's not much to redeem about kid Loki, after all - it was Ikol all along.

Oooh, that would be fascinating! old!Loki already did die the once, so maybe repetitive...but dying for kid!Loki, truly dying for his new self, would be awfully redemptive...
(though that would actually make me awfully sad; I rather am fond of Ikol, and that old!Loki isn't entirely gone...umm yes I am a very confused fangirl, I don't know what I want! As long as it involves more Loki. More Loki is good!)

[josephina-x.livejournal.com]

Ah, I think you've got a point there. I bow to your superior logic and canon-knowledge ;) ...I still think it's not entirely out of the picture, though. Guess I've been brainwashed to think of villain types as sometimes self-loathing, and I guess the 'usual' jealousy-as-motivation wouldn't be it, then. ...I wouldn't discount a kill-kid!Loki-to-save/reincarnate-him-later though, or some other things where he needs to be whole again... sigh.

Heh, I could go with mentor. (Oh dear, I wonder if he'd go so far as to give pointers for getting out of trouble, or how to do it -better-... *eee*)

Yeah, I see your point, but kid!Loki -knew- before that she wouldn't go too far or hurt him too badly or anything -- now he wouldn't have that luxury. I think he'd be at least standoffish, especially if he thought she might try to, y'know, strand him someplace nasty or something. *sighs*

Oh, I didn't think of that -- but that would be totally cause kid!Loki to freak out, right? Because the only way that would work is if Leah pulled a 'parent trap' and Jarvis ended up, uh, 'married' to Hela. Somehow. And then Hela would be "the mom" and Leah would be "the evil stepsister" and if that latest crossover was any indication as to kid!Loki's reaction to that sort of thing... *lol*

...Hmmm, I should probably go read that article now, yes? ;)

[greenlady2.livejournal.com]

"the frustration of the serial aspect of the comic book genre, that the status quo conventions mean that there can ultimately be no real character development...one of the reasons I find supervillains sympathetic is because due to the stories they're in, they don't really have a choice about being what they are...."

Indeed. And this bothers me especially when TV shows or movies based on comics seem to portray characters as real people, but don't admit of any kind of development.

It's okay by me if the characters are some kind of Jungian archetypes. The Joker, for example. He's clearly an archetypal personification of Chaos. In The Dark Knight, he arises because The Batman tries to force too much order on the Gotham Universe, and there must be a balance between Order and Chaos, so the Joker appeared. We don't expect him to 'develop' as a real person would. But, when a 'villain' is obviously a real person with a life outside the bounds of the show or movie or comic, and he or she is stuck in EVOL mode, then it's distressing. Why bother to create a character with a full life if they can never develop into anything beyond the hero's nemesis?