Guardian drama timeline: the past
Aug. 10th, 2019 01:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xparrotI've seen and done a lot of speculation about what the Guardian drama shows us about the Kunlun story, in particular, how long was he really back there, and finally decided to sit down and try to work it out to my (dis)satisfaction.
For all its prominence in the show's storyline, the actual screentime Zhao Yunlan spends in the past is quite short. Putting aside Shen Wei's earlier flashbacks (all to moments we actually see on-screen later) Zhao Yunlan's entire trip back in time, from when he drops out of the wormhole to when he's sucked back into it, runs less than the length of a single episode. There are also two brief flashbacks in ep 37, totaling about 3 minutes (we'll get back to those).
But that's just the runtime of the show; obviously far more time can pass in-show than what we actually see, since most of Guardian isn't in realtime. So how long in the show's timeline was Zhao Yunlan actually back there for?
What we see seems to indicate it was a brief trip. Much of the action appears to take place within a 24-hour period -- if an implausibly busy one. The sequence of scenes is as follows:
ep 34:
All the main scenes in this list are in "real time"; they seem to happen at about the same rate as we're watching them. The italicized parentheticals are the gaps between. The trick here is that the dialog doesn't establish how long any of these gaps are, so they're open to interpretation.
By visual cues, they're all short periods. Everyone wears the same outfits throughout. Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's clifftop conversation, while broken over three scenes, includes multiple shots of the three-quarters moon, which barely moves, putting their whole exchange at less than an hour. (Though the moon also wanders back and forth a bit. So maybe it's actually a satellite?!)
Plus Shen Wei picks up the lollipop wrapper at the end of the scene and it's intact and not dirty, making it likely Zhao Yunlan had only just dropped it.
The biggest time skips are the transitions between day and night. Zhao Yunlan apparently took at least an hour to get dressed up as "Kunlun" given that the sun completely sets in that time. Then there's the jump between Shen Wei, Zhao Yunlan, and Da Qing hearing about the declaration of war and confronting Ye Zun's band in the woods. It theoretically could have taken days or weeks for Team Kunlun to find the rebels. However, with no hint in the dialog as to how long it's been, the impression we get as viewers is that it's the next day. In Zhao Yunlan's final scene Da Qing also protests to Zhao Yunlan that "you just got here!" implying he really hasn't been here for long.
At the same time, this abbreviated timeline doesn't quite make sense. For one thing, in terms of character development, it can be unsatisfying that Shen Wei's 10K years of devotion is predicated on meeting a random guy for 24 hours, most of which was spent running around in the woods. And Da Qing deciding that Zhao Yunlan is his master is even less plausible -- Shen Wei at least likes Kunlun from the start, being saved by him; Da Qing goes from thinking Zhao Yunlan's an idiot to giving him his bells with no explanation. It's because of this that a lot of us fans assume what we see is misleading, and Zhao Yunlan was really in the past for far longer than it seemed.
One thing sometimes cited as evidence of this is in episode 37, when Zhao Yunlan briefly flashbacks to his time as Kunlun.There are two flashbacks:
In the second scene, Ma Gui mentions his surprise that alcohol is a thing. From this it's been extrapolated that the alliance didn't have alcohol and the wine used to grow the seed was made according to Zhao Yunlan's instructions, meaning he had to have been back in time long enough to brew it. Alcohol can be brewed in anywhere from a couple weeks to several months, depending on what kind it is (while the translations say "wine" the Chinese is just "酒（jiu)," which can refer to either rice wine or any alcohol) so it's sometimes stated as "canon" that Zhao Yunlan was back in the past for at least that long.
However, there is nothing in the dialog here that mentions brewing. Moreover, every indication is that rather than separated by weeks or months, the two scenes only a few minutes apart -- the candles haven't even burned down, and what's more, Zhao Yunlan is sucking on the same red lollipop in both scenes.
It makes more sense that Zhao Yunlan, rather than brewing alcohol from scratch, got it from another more immediate source. Maybe, even if Ma Gui didn't know about alcohol, others in the alliance did (the Flower tribe, perhaps, as medicine?) and Zhao Yunlan cadged some off them. Or else Zhao Yunlan just had a flask on him (Ma Gui pours from a little ceramic bottle, but maybe that was to water the drink down to avoid shocking the seed with whatever rotgut Zhao Yunlan is partial to).
(It's also unclear when this scene takes place. In it Zhao Yunlan says he's only known Ma Gui and Fu You for a few hours, so it's definitely the day he arrived. However, he's dressed as Kunlun, and we see him meet Shen Wei immediately after getting in his Kunlun outfit. So it must happen between the time he meets Shen Wei in the cave and their talk outside (Shen Wei went to get his injuries healed, maybe?) Which makes it odd that Ma Gui and Fu You, in their conversation re: the timeline a little later, don't mention this success?)
But while this scene doesn't definitively break the 24-hour timeline, there are other points in the show that seem to contradict what we see of Zhao Yunlan's excellent adventure. For instance, after they get back, Zhao Yunlan says they were "only" gone two days in the wormhole -- if he was back in time for less than that, wouldn't he be more surprised that so much time had passed?
Then there's all the earlier references to the past that don't quite fit with what we see. In ep 22 Da Qing has a flashback of calling for Kunlun and meeting Ye Zun, which never happens (Ye Zun gets banished by the Hallows before Da Qing wakes up). Maybe that's just Da Qing confabulating from his vague memories of Ye Zun?
In episode 21 Shen Wei reacts unusually strongly to Zhao Yunlan calling him "Xiao Wei" -- the implication is that it's what Kunlun once called him, but we never see that in the past. Episode 21 also references the ancient historical text that mentions Kunlun, saying he was considered equal to the BCE and that he wrote a memorial about the Hallows, which he had the power to seal. Da Qing does tell Zhao Yunlan that this text isn't totally accurate, but where did any of it come from, if Kunlun was only around for a single night? Ma Gui and Fu You spinning the story after the fact? Or are some of those legends actually about the original General Kunlun, whoever he was?
Ye Zun's storyline is another major point of confusion. It's unclear when Ye Zun actually took power (or how; there's no hint of how he stole the Hallows to begin with). The scene we see of him voring the chief is placed in the show such that it appears to be happening concurrently with Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's conversation -- it's also at night, and the clouded, starless sky looks the same. However, the moon isn't visible, and it's possible this scene actually took place some time previously. That would explain how Ye Zun had time to get a declaration of war to the alliance in what appears to be a matter of minutes after taking control (the rebels were camping on the next ridge over from the alliance?) (It's also really unclear how a "declaration of war" leads to a scuffle in the woods rather than the whole alliance army marching against the rebels; what are Ma Gui and Fu You even doing? Why did it matter if Zhao Yunlan took General Kunlun's identity, if he never so much as saw any of the alliance except Shen Wei and Da Qing?)
What baffles me most about all this is why. From a storytelling perspective, why did the show creators choose to make the time travel trip (appear) so short? Even if the show was constrained by filming schedules and and budget to limit the past sequences, why didn't they even try to imply Zhao Yunlan was back there for longer? Why not show Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's conversation as progressing over time -- it wouldn't have been hard; just avoid shooting the moon, maybe change the outfits slightly, and throw in a line about "last time". Or the Ye Zun claiming power scene -- if that was meant to be a flashback to an earlier point, why set that at night, so it looks simultaneous? Why not just film it in the daytime (all those actors were already out in the daylight for the first battle scene) and make it clear it was at a different point? It's needlessly confusing storytelling.
On the other hand, given the contradictions and gaps within the show canon, that it's already necessary to imagine more happening than what we see to make any sense of certain elements (like Zhao Yunlan winning over Da Qing and "Xiao Wei") -- it extends license to us fans to imagine even more than that. And the show, by not giving any definitive time markers, generously leaves room for such speculation. Maybe Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan's conversation played out over weeks or months. Maybe Zhao Yunlan did brew wine from scratch to grow the twig. Maybe Da Qing was only gradually won over. The show doesn't directly deny any such suppositions; Guardian's "canon" is fluid, not frozen solid certainty, so it can be poured into the diverse shapes of endless headcanons and fics.
For all its prominence in the show's storyline, the actual screentime Zhao Yunlan spends in the past is quite short. Putting aside Shen Wei's earlier flashbacks (all to moments we actually see on-screen later) Zhao Yunlan's entire trip back in time, from when he drops out of the wormhole to when he's sucked back into it, runs less than the length of a single episode. There are also two brief flashbacks in ep 37, totaling about 3 minutes (we'll get back to those).
But that's just the runtime of the show; obviously far more time can pass in-show than what we actually see, since most of Guardian isn't in realtime. So how long in the show's timeline was Zhao Yunlan actually back there for?
What we see seems to indicate it was a brief trip. Much of the action appears to take place within a 24-hour period -- if an implausibly busy one. The sequence of scenes is as follows:
ep 34:
- 27:12-28:30: Zhao Yunlan falls onto a mountainside, sees Shen Wei and crew fighting rebels, shoots the rebels and saves Shen Wei and his men, only to gawk as Shen Wei just walks off
- (brief break for Zhao Yunlan to make it to the bottom of the hill -- Shen Wei is gone by the time he gets down there, but it's still daylight)
- 28:31-31:30 Zhao Yunlan meets Da Qing, who has a picture of "Kunlun"
- (Zhao Yunlan & Da Qing walk to the alliance's cave HQ; it's still light when they get there (unless the trip took multiple days?))
- 31:31-35:50 Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing meet Fu You and Ma Gui, who explain Zhao Yunlan has to become Kunlun to preserve the timeline
- (Now night outside the cave, presumably the same night)
- 35:50-38:28 Zhao Yunlan is showing off his fancy Kunlun duds (and a wig? magically lengthened hair?); Shen Wei turns up and meets his benefactor. The scene ends with Zhao Yunlan walking off and Shen Wei seeming to follow him
- (next scene is outside, at night; presumably it's the same night?)
- 38:29-41:53 Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei start to talk. Zhao Yunlan takes Shen Wei's mask, gives him a lollipop, and introduces himself as Kunlun; Shen Wei vows to repay Zhao Yunlan for saving his life, which Zhao Yunlan assures him he's already done many times over (<333)
- 41:54-42:37 Brief interlude back in the cave wherein Fu You and Ma Gui discuss whether they're in a mutable or fixed timeline and Ma Gui does a way worse job of flirting than Zhao Yunlan outside.
- 42:38-42:53 Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei have sat down again; Shen Wei's mask is still off and he's holding it. Zhao Yunlan asks Shen Wei's name and the ep ends literally mid-sentence (oh cdrama), picks up with:
- 2:09-5:41 Shen Wei gives his name, Zhao Yunlan gives him a better one; Shen Wei explains his backstory and Zhao Yunlan asks about his brother.
- (somewhere else, also at night)
- 5:42-10:59 Ye Zun is offering the Hallows to the rebel chief; ends up eating the chief and taking control.
- (cuts back to Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei, still night)
- 11:00-12:57 Shen Wei thanks Zhao Yunlan for caring, breaks Zhao Yunlan's heart into that many more pieces; Zhao Yunlan says he'll one day go but will be back. Da Qing runs in to report the rebel boss has sent a declaration of war and brought the Hallows; they go off to fight, after Shen Wei picks up a dropped lollipop wrapper.
- (daytime, elsewhere)
- 12:58-13:43 Ye Zun and his merry band are trudging through the forest with the Hallows; Shen Wei, Zhao Yunlan, and Da Qing attack them and reclaim the Hallows.
- (after running an indeterminate length of time -- it's still daylight)
- 13:44- 20:53 Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan stop on top of a cliff to check out the Hallows. Zhao Yunlan tries to open the wormhole to go home, Da Qing comes running up from...somewhere...to protest, clearly speaking Shen Wei's heart for him while Shen Wei is struck speechless. Da Qing does the bell exchange with Zhao Yunlan, then Ye Zun attacks; Ye Zun and Shen Wei have a sibling reunion that could've gone better, and the Hallows open the wormhole and suck Zhao Yunlan back into it.
All the main scenes in this list are in "real time"; they seem to happen at about the same rate as we're watching them. The italicized parentheticals are the gaps between. The trick here is that the dialog doesn't establish how long any of these gaps are, so they're open to interpretation.
By visual cues, they're all short periods. Everyone wears the same outfits throughout. Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's clifftop conversation, while broken over three scenes, includes multiple shots of the three-quarters moon, which barely moves, putting their whole exchange at less than an hour. (Though the moon also wanders back and forth a bit. So maybe it's actually a satellite?!)
Plus Shen Wei picks up the lollipop wrapper at the end of the scene and it's intact and not dirty, making it likely Zhao Yunlan had only just dropped it.
The biggest time skips are the transitions between day and night. Zhao Yunlan apparently took at least an hour to get dressed up as "Kunlun" given that the sun completely sets in that time. Then there's the jump between Shen Wei, Zhao Yunlan, and Da Qing hearing about the declaration of war and confronting Ye Zun's band in the woods. It theoretically could have taken days or weeks for Team Kunlun to find the rebels. However, with no hint in the dialog as to how long it's been, the impression we get as viewers is that it's the next day. In Zhao Yunlan's final scene Da Qing also protests to Zhao Yunlan that "you just got here!" implying he really hasn't been here for long.
At the same time, this abbreviated timeline doesn't quite make sense. For one thing, in terms of character development, it can be unsatisfying that Shen Wei's 10K years of devotion is predicated on meeting a random guy for 24 hours, most of which was spent running around in the woods. And Da Qing deciding that Zhao Yunlan is his master is even less plausible -- Shen Wei at least likes Kunlun from the start, being saved by him; Da Qing goes from thinking Zhao Yunlan's an idiot to giving him his bells with no explanation. It's because of this that a lot of us fans assume what we see is misleading, and Zhao Yunlan was really in the past for far longer than it seemed.
One thing sometimes cited as evidence of this is in episode 37, when Zhao Yunlan briefly flashbacks to his time as Kunlun.There are two flashbacks:
- Zhao Yunlan talks with Ma Gui about the Yashou magic seed and encourages Ma Gui to go for Fu You
- Ma Gui uses alcohol on Zhao Yunlan's advice to grow the magic seed.
In the second scene, Ma Gui mentions his surprise that alcohol is a thing. From this it's been extrapolated that the alliance didn't have alcohol and the wine used to grow the seed was made according to Zhao Yunlan's instructions, meaning he had to have been back in time long enough to brew it. Alcohol can be brewed in anywhere from a couple weeks to several months, depending on what kind it is (while the translations say "wine" the Chinese is just "酒（jiu)," which can refer to either rice wine or any alcohol) so it's sometimes stated as "canon" that Zhao Yunlan was back in the past for at least that long.
However, there is nothing in the dialog here that mentions brewing. Moreover, every indication is that rather than separated by weeks or months, the two scenes only a few minutes apart -- the candles haven't even burned down, and what's more, Zhao Yunlan is sucking on the same red lollipop in both scenes.
It makes more sense that Zhao Yunlan, rather than brewing alcohol from scratch, got it from another more immediate source. Maybe, even if Ma Gui didn't know about alcohol, others in the alliance did (the Flower tribe, perhaps, as medicine?) and Zhao Yunlan cadged some off them. Or else Zhao Yunlan just had a flask on him (Ma Gui pours from a little ceramic bottle, but maybe that was to water the drink down to avoid shocking the seed with whatever rotgut Zhao Yunlan is partial to).
(It's also unclear when this scene takes place. In it Zhao Yunlan says he's only known Ma Gui and Fu You for a few hours, so it's definitely the day he arrived. However, he's dressed as Kunlun, and we see him meet Shen Wei immediately after getting in his Kunlun outfit. So it must happen between the time he meets Shen Wei in the cave and their talk outside (Shen Wei went to get his injuries healed, maybe?) Which makes it odd that Ma Gui and Fu You, in their conversation re: the timeline a little later, don't mention this success?)
But while this scene doesn't definitively break the 24-hour timeline, there are other points in the show that seem to contradict what we see of Zhao Yunlan's excellent adventure. For instance, after they get back, Zhao Yunlan says they were "only" gone two days in the wormhole -- if he was back in time for less than that, wouldn't he be more surprised that so much time had passed?
Then there's all the earlier references to the past that don't quite fit with what we see. In ep 22 Da Qing has a flashback of calling for Kunlun and meeting Ye Zun, which never happens (Ye Zun gets banished by the Hallows before Da Qing wakes up). Maybe that's just Da Qing confabulating from his vague memories of Ye Zun?
In episode 21 Shen Wei reacts unusually strongly to Zhao Yunlan calling him "Xiao Wei" -- the implication is that it's what Kunlun once called him, but we never see that in the past. Episode 21 also references the ancient historical text that mentions Kunlun, saying he was considered equal to the BCE and that he wrote a memorial about the Hallows, which he had the power to seal. Da Qing does tell Zhao Yunlan that this text isn't totally accurate, but where did any of it come from, if Kunlun was only around for a single night? Ma Gui and Fu You spinning the story after the fact? Or are some of those legends actually about the original General Kunlun, whoever he was?
Ye Zun's storyline is another major point of confusion. It's unclear when Ye Zun actually took power (or how; there's no hint of how he stole the Hallows to begin with). The scene we see of him voring the chief is placed in the show such that it appears to be happening concurrently with Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's conversation -- it's also at night, and the clouded, starless sky looks the same. However, the moon isn't visible, and it's possible this scene actually took place some time previously. That would explain how Ye Zun had time to get a declaration of war to the alliance in what appears to be a matter of minutes after taking control (the rebels were camping on the next ridge over from the alliance?) (It's also really unclear how a "declaration of war" leads to a scuffle in the woods rather than the whole alliance army marching against the rebels; what are Ma Gui and Fu You even doing? Why did it matter if Zhao Yunlan took General Kunlun's identity, if he never so much as saw any of the alliance except Shen Wei and Da Qing?)
What baffles me most about all this is why. From a storytelling perspective, why did the show creators choose to make the time travel trip (appear) so short? Even if the show was constrained by filming schedules and and budget to limit the past sequences, why didn't they even try to imply Zhao Yunlan was back there for longer? Why not show Shen Wei & Zhao Yunlan's conversation as progressing over time -- it wouldn't have been hard; just avoid shooting the moon, maybe change the outfits slightly, and throw in a line about "last time". Or the Ye Zun claiming power scene -- if that was meant to be a flashback to an earlier point, why set that at night, so it looks simultaneous? Why not just film it in the daytime (all those actors were already out in the daylight for the first battle scene) and make it clear it was at a different point? It's needlessly confusing storytelling.
On the other hand, given the contradictions and gaps within the show canon, that it's already necessary to imagine more happening than what we see to make any sense of certain elements (like Zhao Yunlan winning over Da Qing and "Xiao Wei") -- it extends license to us fans to imagine even more than that. And the show, by not giving any definitive time markers, generously leaves room for such speculation. Maybe Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan's conversation played out over weeks or months. Maybe Zhao Yunlan did brew wine from scratch to grow the twig. Maybe Da Qing was only gradually won over. The show doesn't directly deny any such suppositions; Guardian's "canon" is fluid, not frozen solid certainty, so it can be poured into the diverse shapes of endless headcanons and fics.
