Ahhhh, these are such good points! Starting with how this all can be HARD...it's a struggle for me sometimes, because yeah, fanning is such an emotional thing for me, I am way overinvested, and I know this, but it doesn't stop me from being unreasonably sensitive when, like, someone likes a ship different than my OTP. Hell, when I'm in a lower mood, people squeeing about a show that I don't myself love can make me cross, like, why don't you guys like something good...which are the kind of thoughts I try my best to keep to myself because they don't do anyone any good; they'd just make me more annoyed, and dampen some people's enjoyment. But still, the temptation can be there. >.>
The different types of negativity -- yes, that's important. Though sometimes it can be hard to distinguish... And then, for me, sometimes a reasoned, dispassionate critique can bother me more than just someone saying "YARGH I HATE X" because the latter I can dismiss, but the former I think about.
It's also different when you criticize out of love vs. out of derision. If someone in Guardian gently pokes fun at production value, that doesn't really bother me and can usually make me laugh in affection. But if someone not in the fandom dismisses the show for having bad special effects, then I can get defensive.
This is SO true...and also overlaps with different ways of fanning that can just be incompatible. Like, I will mock Guardian's production values but I genuinely mean it out of love -- one of the reasons I enjoy the show is because I find it cheesy enough that I can't quite take it seriously. I don't even think of that as being negative because it's very much not a bug but a feature for me; I enjoy the show more for that. But for other people who don't want their suspension of belief broken, pointing out the foibles lessens their enjoyment. And there's no real way to deal with this. I mostly just try to limit my mocking to people who fan in a similar way and will take it in the spirit I intend (I'm more likely to mock on Twitter than on dw) but it still risks squee-harshing, even though for me it is squee too.
I think the type of negativity that bothers me most is around individual fanworks, styles, tropes, etc. This is in a slightly different category to me because it pertains to something that fandom creates and because negativity around it is so often rooted in individual preferences that aren't always rational (and hence not conducive to debate).
And yes, this -- I totally agree. I think a lot of tastes in canon are also rooted in individual and not necessarily rational preferences -- but when it comes to fanworks, it's another layer of personal.
I have a lot of interest myself in analyzing my own reaction to tropes, to trying to tease apart why something works for me or doesn't work; and talking about what works or doesn't work for other people can help with that. But I think the discussions about what doesn't work especially...need to be handled with extreme care. Because interrogating the id is tricky business, and feeling like your iddy kinks are being judged, when maybe you don't even know yourself why you like them (and maybe are a little embarrassed by them, as so many of us are) -- that's a terrible feeling, and moreover, yeah, can make you so self-conscious that it spoils your enjoyment. And if you were already having to push through embarrassment to enjoy something...I've been there, and it's not something I want to do to anyone else.
Also talking about tropes that don't work for you can skip over into, not just passing judgment on a trope (saying it's superior or inferior to another) but to passing judgment on other people (unintentionally, or otherwise). It's all too easy to go from "I don't like this thing because of a personal reason" to "I don't like this thing because it's harmful/immoral/stupid" -- and so the people who like it are likewise those things, by implication.
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winterfish
no subject
Date: 2019-11-18 12:37 pm (UTC)The different types of negativity -- yes, that's important. Though sometimes it can be hard to distinguish... And then, for me, sometimes a reasoned, dispassionate critique can bother me more than just someone saying "YARGH I HATE X" because the latter I can dismiss, but the former I think about.
It's also different when you criticize out of love vs. out of derision. If someone in Guardian gently pokes fun at production value, that doesn't really bother me and can usually make me laugh in affection. But if someone not in the fandom dismisses the show for having bad special effects, then I can get defensive.
This is SO true...and also overlaps with different ways of fanning that can just be incompatible. Like, I will mock Guardian's production values but I genuinely mean it out of love -- one of the reasons I enjoy the show is because I find it cheesy enough that I can't quite take it seriously. I don't even think of that as being negative because it's very much not a bug but a feature for me; I enjoy the show more for that. But for other people who don't want their suspension of belief broken, pointing out the foibles lessens their enjoyment. And there's no real way to deal with this. I mostly just try to limit my mocking to people who fan in a similar way and will take it in the spirit I intend (I'm more likely to mock on Twitter than on dw) but it still risks squee-harshing, even though for me it is squee too.
I think the type of negativity that bothers me most is around individual fanworks, styles, tropes, etc. This is in a slightly different category to me because it pertains to something that fandom creates and because negativity around it is so often rooted in individual preferences that aren't always rational (and hence not conducive to debate).
And yes, this -- I totally agree. I think a lot of tastes in canon are also rooted in individual and not necessarily rational preferences -- but when it comes to fanworks, it's another layer of personal.
I have a lot of interest myself in analyzing my own reaction to tropes, to trying to tease apart why something works for me or doesn't work; and talking about what works or doesn't work for other people can help with that. But I think the discussions about what doesn't work especially...need to be handled with extreme care. Because interrogating the id is tricky business, and feeling like your iddy kinks are being judged, when maybe you don't even know yourself why you like them (and maybe are a little embarrassed by them, as so many of us are) -- that's a terrible feeling, and moreover, yeah, can make you so self-conscious that it spoils your enjoyment. And if you were already having to push through embarrassment to enjoy something...I've been there, and it's not something I want to do to anyone else.
Also talking about tropes that don't work for you can skip over into, not just passing judgment on a trope (saying it's superior or inferior to another) but to passing judgment on other people (unintentionally, or otherwise). It's all too easy to go from "I don't like this thing because of a personal reason" to "I don't like this thing because it's harmful/immoral/stupid" -- and so the people who like it are likewise those things, by implication.