hating characters: why it's okay to bash

[xparrot]

Was just having a discussion on yma2's journal, concerning something I've often seen debated before: the issue of character hating and character bashing. And the question was posed of why fans do it at all.

The thing is, I don't character bash often myself, but there's been a few chars I've hated enough to appreciate the feeling. And I'm in defense of any fan activity that doesn't hurt people. Char bashing in fanfic is usually OOC, and can ruin my enjoyment of an otherwise fine story, but hey, if it's what you enjoy doing, knock yourself out. The characters are fictional; they can take it! But even beyond this, I think that character bashing is a perfectly reasonable, understandable form of fanning.

One trouble with understanding bashing is a difference in temperament. People are negative or positive by nature. Some people prefer to praise their favorite movie and some people have more fun reviling their most hated flick. Many a film critic has taken an unholy glee in poetically shredding the likes of Battlefield Earth or Highlander: Endgame. It's a harmless way to channel aggression, and while it can be a little juvenile, most aggression channels tend to be! But if you never get off on a bit of spleen-venting, then character bashing is never going to make sense, anymore than fandom_wank, TWoP, fanficrants, or any other elements of fandom's darkside.

But there's another reason for character hatred, beyond the joy of vitriol. Fandom - all fandom - is fundamentally art criticism taken to new levels. What makes fandom different is that fans, by and large, interrogate a text from within the text. The heart of fandom is fanfic, fanvids, fanart, etc; the communities around these; and of course fan discussion. And fan-discussion does include series-meta: "The Star Trek screenwriters? Were smoking some serious crack when they decided to remove Spock's brain," but is just as often series-internal: "How did Dr. McCoy manage to design that Spock-remote control? Did he minor in neurological bionics?"

Character hatred and bashing takes place within the text. Observe:

"I hate Lana Lang. She's a breathy-voiced, self-absorbed, two-timing little bitch who obviously got the meteor mutant power of making anyone fall hopelessly in love with her, because there's no way all those men and women would adore her otherwise, seeing as she's, as aforementioned, a breathy-voiced, self-absorbed, two-timing little bitch."

"I hate Lana Lang. She's a poorly written character suffering from too much 'telling' and not enough 'showing' of her admirable traits, who is required to take the role of the love interest in too many different storylines to really be feasible. And the actress and/or director makes some unfortunate choices in regards to her diction."

Here's the thing. These two critiques are, functionally, identical. One of them is criticizing from inside the fictional construct, and one is criticizing from without, but ultimately, they're making the same points, expressing the same opinions about a character. Why should one method be considered superior to the other?

In fact, the first method is more satisfying in a couple ways. To begin with, as previously mentioned, it's fun to be mean. And char bashing is a sub-fandom, a fandom-within-fandom: you do it to find other people who agree with you, who go "Right on!" and validate your opinion. But it's also a solution to a problem. The second critique is illuminating flaws in the text. And that's uncomfortable ground for a fan. To a certain extent, yes, we like to poke fun of our fandoms and all that's wrong with them (Star Wars fans hate Star Wars. It's funny because it's so damn true.) But there's a point it can go too far; a point in which too many flaws are illuminated and your love for a piece of fiction falls apart. You don't want to harp for too long about how lousy the writers are, because eventually you'll ask yourself if they do so much wrong, are they really doing anything right? Why am I watching this show anyway? Besides the obvious: because Michael Rosenbaum's Lex is the sex. Er, where was I?

Bashing the character, rather than the writing of the character, is an answer to this dilemma. In fact, character hatred is if anything a compliment to the writers, that they can inspire such spirited emotion; it's utterly buying into the constructed realm, relating to fictional chars as one relates to real people. Not to mention, bashing is more exciting, more immediate, than a dry, removed, critical analysis; it allows for more opportunities for humor (I've giggled at char-bashing icons even for chars I like) and it's also useful shorthand. Not everyone enjoys taking the time to construct a logical argument; shouting, "Lana Lang sucks!" is more cathartic than, "Smallville's screenwriters need some elementary lessons on believably developing female characters beyond being the focal point of adolescent crushes!" (or even, "Smallville screenwriters have to figure out how to write heterosexual romance as convincing and appealing as the homoerotic subtext, or else should just subvert the now-boring heteronormative cliche and make that subtext text" - because yes, that is a legitimate criticism, even if it's more commonly worded as, "CLana SUX, Clex 4-ever!!!11!!1one!!!!") Character bashing is a valid way for fans to express their opinions - and why else are any of us here in fandom, if not for that?

Comments

[spacealien-vamp.livejournal.com]

These two critiques are, functionally, identical.

In general, I agree. However, there is one important difference: What if the writers are trying to make you hate the character? If, for example, the character is intended to be a self-absorbed, two-timing bitch, then the writers are doing their job flawlessly. I think, in such a case, it makes sense to hate the character but not the writing...or, at least, the skill of the writing. (One may hate that the character is intended to be that way, but that's a different matter.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ahh, excellent point. A detestable villain is a well-written villain. Should've clarified that in the essay! The difference in fandom, I think, is that fans rarely complain about 'bashing' when one is portraying a heinous bitch as being a heinous bitch. When it's the perfect princess who everyone in show adores, then it becomes a matter of OOC, and people get riled up...

It also seems to me that the chars who are most reviled in fandom are not generally the ones who the writers want you to revile. The Draco Malfoy phenomenon, in which the author's detested little slug is all but canonized by a segment of fandom who feels sorry for him. The most hated chars in fandom in my experience are the Mary Sue types who are supposed to be much-beloved by all within the show itself, but we viewers fail to feel the love and thus turn against this incomprehensible glitch in our fave chars' affections...

[naye]

Need to rush out soon, but - OMG THE STAR WARS HATE!! ^_______^ *laughs and laughs and laughs* That's the funniest thing in forever, because it's so so true!

[stitcher2ficcer.livejournal.com]

I *do* wish you had time on your hand more often. Because when you do, the essays you find time to write--while perhaps not designed to move the world to new heights of understanding on critical issues--sure are entertaining and present interesting points to ponder. Working on completing the depot book with your dad this week, and trying to get some writing in, so no time to debate the finer points of your musingss; but I'm very much enjoying the discussion when I take a break to check it out.

{{BIG HUGS}}

P.S. Are you counting all these essay words as part of your daily challenge totals?

[yma2.livejournal.com]

I think you've more or less persuaded me, but I still must say I don't like a... I dunno... I certain sort of bashing.
Basically, I think it's closed-mindedness I don't like. The stuff that seems very personal, or very closed minded just makes me wince. Perhaps it's as much the bad writing or anything but when I see people just push so much energy into hating a character it... makes me feel awkward. It makes me think less of a writer. Sure, you hate Lana Lang, cool, but I've never seen you write anything like very... emotive about her. I have no problem with character bashng when it's funny or insiteful or inteligent or anthing where it's balenced. But when it's just closed-minded, immature ripping off it makes me feel... a little disgusted to be honest.
That and I strongly believe that, before you decide to hate a character, it's alway best to think about him/her, and/or try and write about him/her. The amount of characters I've stared off not particualy liking, and then suddenly finding pretty cool because I read some fanfic on them, or tried writing them, is pretty astounding.
Ryou Bakura started off like that. At first I just through... 'what's the deal with this guy and fandom?' now I think he's pretty interesting.
I think it's about finding the hidden potential even in the most hated characters. I think that, whilst there's nothing wroing with being mad, and it's fine and good, it's sometimes just as good, if not better, to take those lemons and... make lemonade.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

You hadn't seen that before? isn't it awesome? It really is terrifyingly true...

(is that Turk & JD? ^^)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I wish I had more time more often, too!

and to the ps - hmmm, I hadn't thought of that! but it definitely would help, I was a little behind today...

[naye]

I hadn't! It's so hysterically funny! And true. I mean, I'm not the hugest Star Wars fan ever, but I definitely do that thing where I love the idea, but hate the execution of a lot of it. Well. I love the movies, too, but - I'm not blind to their flaws! Just don't get me started on the prequels or the "special editions" or any other books except for Zahn's. (Hee too the hating Zahn because his characters stay dead!)

Yep! Here with their matching bracelets, carved with the others' name... ^___^

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've had that happen myself - rarely that a character I dislike becomes beloved, but a few chars that I've been pretty neutral about become my favorites in the writing of them (Gojyo in Saiyuki went from my least favorite of the four to my most favorite in the course of a couple stories...)

That I approve of bashing in theory doesn't mean I especially enjoy it myself. I'll defend chars I personally like, whether popular or not. And bashing that is bitter and vicious without being entertaining - funny or insightful, as you say - doesn't do anything for me and isn't what I look for in fic or fellow fans. I don't want to write or read about chars I don't like; I'd rather just ignore them and focus on the ones who do appeal to me. But that's my personal tastes - my point is that bashing/hating is a valid and understandable way to fan, though it's not my particular cup of tea.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(Zahn's actually a fun writer outside of SW, I think he was hired for the job because he already wrote rolicking space opera...)

...um. Are you sure they're not actually gay? ^^;;;;

[stitcher2ficcer.livejournal.com]

I suppose I shouldn't be encouraging you to write/count anything that detracts from your word count on UFOs and novels... but essays are writing; and they are original work. And your goal was open-ended as to the content of your 2000 words a day. Geez, the first Lex essay must be around that length all by itself, yes?

[nightwalker.livejournal.com]

I've always said that I'll never tell people what to write - and hey, if you like it, write it, but be willing to take your lumps when you post it out in public for everyone to see - but for the most part I don't care for character-bashing.

My problem isn't with the rants or the LJ posts or the comms dedicated to bashing. What annoys the heck out of me is character-bashing masquerading as fanfic because it's almost always OOC and sloppy. But even then I'll just leave a polite review to that effect and go on with my life. I don't think a character bashing has ever made me cry. ;)

[naye]

I remember you told me something along those lines before... along with certain opinions on KJ Anderson?

Uh. JD is. UM. Well. You'll have to see for yourself, and then you tell me! XD

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

For the most part I'd rather not read a char bash myself (a few outright parodies I can think of are pretty funny, but...) But then I don't tend to care for poorly written fic or OOC under any circumstances, even when it's positive (I've seen my share of bad guys written not-so-bad-after-all, I mean, where's the fun in that? bring on the eeeeeevol!) I guess my problem is that (it seems to me) some fans consider bashing to be a reprehensible way to fan, while in my experience most bashing is harmless fun, not nearly as seriously meant as the professions of hatred might imply...

[sholio]

Hmmm...

I've always felt that character bashing had a *right* to exist, in the same way that any other kind of free speech does, but your essay is the first persuasive argument I've seen that it might have a *reason* to exist, aside from just pure venting. Art criticism ... it *is* that, certainly. (Oh, and that Star Wars essay? Funniest. Thing. Ever. And you know, 'til reading that, I'd never consciously thought about the fact that the more fannish a person gets about something, the more negative they tend to get, too.)

But I don't think I'll ever enjoy reading it. Even in those cases where I agree with it, it generally tends to make me feel a little squicky -- at least when the show itself is one that I like. It's hard to describe exactly why I can laugh right along with some critical fan-meta, while others give me that unpleasant squirmy feeling. I guess the best way I can describe it is that it's fun, and funny, to me when it's clearly delivered with affection for the show, whereas it just makes me frustrated or unhappy when it doesn't seem to have any purpose other than tearing down the show and its characters. That's the definition of "bashing" to me, is that lack of affection (and, often, lack of understanding) for the source material. On TWoP, for example, some of the reviewers make me laugh while others just frustrate me -- it's the difference between someone who takes the time to watch in depth and really understand the show, and *then* makes fun of it, as opposed to someone who doesn't even really seem to be WATCHING the show (or, at least, makes no attempt to understand it) and just tears it down on a weekly basis.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

That Star Wars essay is pure genius. I'm happy to share it with everyone, because anyone who ever was a true SW fan, to any real degree, can't help but nod along, even as they're dying laughing from the hysterical truth of it.

Whether I enjoy (well-written) bashing, I think, ultimately depends on whether I agree with it or not. Because if I hate a movie or TV show, I rather enjoy essays that tear into it (while as essays praising it tend to make me go, "But--but--!!") while as if I love a movie or show, an honest and heartfelt attack upsets me. Such as TWoP - the SPN recaps for first season seemed to be coming from someone who generally disliked the show, and I couldn't read them. But I've enjoyed some of the reality tv recaps of shows I didn't know, recapped by people who clearly would rather have been eating their own livers than watching the shows in question (oh, how a TWoP recapper suffers for their art!) because such eloquent vitriol can be funny, when I've no inclination of rising to the defense.
Likewise, since I rarely hate characters, most character bashing in fandoms I know makes me twitch, makes me want to defend even chars I'm neutral about. But Lana-bashing? depending on the execution, can make me nod and go, "Right on, sister!" So it feels incredibly hypocritical for me to blanket dismiss all bashing, just because I rarely hate myself.

The reason, I think, that bashing is looked down upon more than critical analysis, is because there's no good argument against hate. If you disagree with a negative critical analysis, you can debate the point; if someone says, "I hate X!" then any argument you make tends to boil down to, "Uh, well, I don't. So there!" It's unsatisfying, if you do disagree - but then that's conversely part of the satisfaction of char hatred, that your emotional opinion is unassailable.

[sholio]

*laughs* You know, I think you've got a better point than me, because as much as I'd love to believe that I'm all rational and consistent, I think that what it comes down to is that it's funny when I agree with it (or at least can see where they're coming from) and not funny when I don't. Admittedly, it's pretty rare for me to really dislike something or someone to the point where I can get behind bashing it. But your reality-TV example makes me think of certain critics' reports on utterly awful movies that have had me dying of laughter. Intentional bad!fic is much the same way -- when it's well done (if that's not a contradiction in terms) it's hysterical because what it's making fun of is just so horrible.

I just tend not to be that ambiguous about things that I like -- generally, if I like it enough to be genuinely fannish about it, I'll be embracing all aspects of it and willing to overlook those I don't like, at least until the ultra-fannish period wears off. It's not exactly that I'm blind to its faults, it's just that I don't really MIND, and while I like to goof on the show's flaws with like-minded people, having someone genuinely tear it down is hard to take. It would probably be better if I didn't have a history of getting fannish about things that are widely reviled, such as DBZ and YGO. *grin* And the thing is, I *knew*, even at the time, that both of these shows were circular and utterly goofy and just *bad* in certain ways. But the amount of love I had for the things that drew me to them was enough that I didn't really want to dwell on the negative, except in a joke-y kind of way -- certainly not in a "this show sucks and Toriyama can't draw his way out of a paper bag" kind of way.

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

Hi! It took me a long time to answer, partly because work’s been over-the-top busy, and partly because it took me a long time to realize – when I think about my favorite books and shows and movies – I don’t hate any of the characters.

I think this is because at some point I decided that I spend enough time with annoying real life people, so I refuse to spend time with annoying fictional ones. So if some character ruins a story for me, I bail fairly early and easily. It’s odd though when I think about it because most of the stories I like have big casts – think LotR and I love or like or at the very least can appreciate spending time with all of them.

Of course this doesn’t apply to characters you’re supposed to hate. Like in the Count of Monte Cristo, if you didn’t hate Danglars, Fernand, et al, you might notice what a total whack job Edmond Dantes is!

When it comes to fanfic, bashing a character rarely works as fiction for me, simply because I tend to like reading about three dimensional characters, which requires them to have motivations and reasons (no matter how crazy or evil) for the things they do – and writers bashing characters rarely bother to do that, so I find the end result boring to aggravating, depending on how much I like the character in question. Of course, thanks to my small attention span, I usually hit the back button way before it gets to the aggravating stage.

Of course, someone has a right to write (god, I love putting 'right' and 'write' in the same sentence) whatever they want -- whether the end result is pleasurable to read is another question.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heya! ^^ Yeah, I'm not usually one for hating chars, for the reason you said, that it's not enjoyable for me, and why would I fan if not for fun? But it has happened occasionally that I will love most of a cast but a single char will throw a monkey wrench into the deal. In those cases I tend to ignore the char (I fastforward through scenes with Lana in SV, for instance) but a little bashing can be fun, if it's done humorously and with panache. (I don't like it in longer or serious stories due to my dislike of OOC, but as parody it can be as successful or as awful as any parody can be, depending on the execution.) And hey, sometimes it's comforting to know one's not eccentric in one's opinions!

I do think a lot of it is personal style - as you said, with all the annoying real people around, you have no need for annoying fictional ones; but I think some people find cartharsis in hating fictional chars. Real people you can't just hate - you have to work with them, be nominally civil, and you might feel guilty doing anything that would hurt their feelings. But you're perfectly free to hate any fictional char as passionately and violently as you want.

(god, I love putting 'right' and 'write' in the same sentence)

Hee, you too?

[attaccabottoni.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add, except it gives light to the often unseemly character hate behavior in fandom, and that I adore your examples and had to suffocate myself with a pillow to keep from disturbing the sleeping people in the room with my delighted laughter.

CLana SUX, Clex 4-ever!!!11!!1one!!!!
I want to make a banner of that and drape it in front of my school for Valentine's. :D Best catharsis ever.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

My examples stemly mainly from Lana being one of the very few chars in all my multitude of fandoms that I genuinely do hate. It's impressive, really >_>

glad to illuminate! I've been trying to figure out bashing for a while myself, so it was satisfying to be able to reason it out a bit...