*scratches head* Sorry, I'm getting so turned around in this debate that I'm forgetting what I was trying to argue to begin with. I don't think I was arguing moral goodness or badness; the kind of "villain" I was talking about was less about being unmoral and more about being unworthy, which I think of as sort of different, but I can see how they might be the same thing. Er.
I do think bashing fic is targeting the bashed character, and deliberately. I don't think it's usually intended to be an attack on the fans of that character, though I can see how it can be taken that way. And it would be nice if it were warned about.
(Tearing down the girl to lift up the boy, which is a bit problematic, imo.)
This is problematic, though it's confusing because it's yoinked from the original trope, which was tearing down the girl to lift up another girl. It becomes extra-twisted in some fics with single-sex relationships; I've seen fic where one male char is bashed in favor of another male char in a slash triangle. And the standard reverse with two guys in love with the same girl, and one guy is portrayed as an asshole (I believe Harry/Hermione 'shippers sometimes so bashed Ron?) (and I don't read much femme-slash, so I don't know if there's ever cases where a guy is torn down in favor of a girl. I did hear Joxer was hated by some Xena/Gabrielle fans?)
I guess my point is...when fans don't like a 'ship, and prefer another 'ship, this is a trope they sometimes turn to? But whether they warp chars OOCly to fit them to it, or whether they particularly use this trope out of the desire to bash, I don't know.
(...as usual, I'm tempted to say it's probably some of both. But that gets to be an unsatisfying answer, after a while...)
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
winterfish
no subject
Date: 2009-10-17 08:39 am (UTC)I do think bashing fic is targeting the bashed character, and deliberately. I don't think it's usually intended to be an attack on the fans of that character, though I can see how it can be taken that way. And it would be nice if it were warned about.
(Tearing down the girl to lift up the boy, which is a bit problematic, imo.)
This is problematic, though it's confusing because it's yoinked from the original trope, which was tearing down the girl to lift up another girl. It becomes extra-twisted in some fics with single-sex relationships; I've seen fic where one male char is bashed in favor of another male char in a slash triangle. And the standard reverse with two guys in love with the same girl, and one guy is portrayed as an asshole (I believe Harry/Hermione 'shippers sometimes so bashed Ron?) (and I don't read much femme-slash, so I don't know if there's ever cases where a guy is torn down in favor of a girl. I did hear Joxer was hated by some Xena/Gabrielle fans?)
I guess my point is...when fans don't like a 'ship, and prefer another 'ship, this is a trope they sometimes turn to? But whether they warp chars OOCly to fit them to it, or whether they particularly use this trope out of the desire to bash, I don't know.
(...as usual, I'm tempted to say it's probably some of both. But that gets to be an unsatisfying answer, after a while...)