of note

[xparrot]

The Buffy musical episode? Totally worth watching the entire rest of the show for. ZOMG LOVE. Funny and cute and touching and awesomely singable. Seriously, Joss Whedon should just be writing musicals. (Okay, so I'm biased, as I love Sondheim and Rent and clearly Joss does, too. But he's very good at them! And horrible soul-crushing angst is so much more entertaining when it's being sung about...)

6th season of Buffy's been all over the place - halfway through it, I think I like it better than s5, but then Willow is suddenly starring in a ridiculous anti-drug PSA (Kids! Don't do magic!) and Giles has left (Noooo~!). OTOH, loving the Spike/Buffy.

And oh man do I love the musical. Especially Spike's song, Giles's song, Buffy's songs (I do wish SMG was a stronger singer, but the songs themselves were great) and of course the preparing-for-battle marching-on-evil ensemble piece, because those are nearly invariably my favorites of any musical and this one doesn't disappoint. Also the plot was hee and it followed through on the character arcs beautifully and really, I'm willing to forgive Joss a lot for it.

Meanwhile Angel season 3 has been...equally all over the place, because the team/family stuff has gotten even more adorable what with Lorne moving in and having a baby around (even if it is a really fake plastic baby sometimes), but the splintering into love triangles is as frustrating as gnine said. It's not even that the triangles themselves are that annoying - well, I'm sorely disappointed to lose Angel & Cordy's platonic friendship (siiiigh) but the Fred/Wesley/Gunn thing so far has been handled with a minimum of angst, which I like. And I do like Fred, she's sweet and fun. But the focus of the show has shifted to accommodate the romance, with the character interactions getting split along pairing lines to the detriment of other relationships. So far the team itself is still strong, but the show is showing more of the pairings and less of the team. Phooey.

But I'm still liking it enough to want to see more. Also River Tam turned up as a Russian ballerina, and before that John Winchester was hunting vampires. Hee!


*wanders off humming "Walk Through the Fire"*

Comments

[dovil.livejournal.com]

I felt season 3 of Ats was easily it's weakest, so hopefully you'll find that the next couple of seasons that much better - I agree with you about the romantic relationships intruding more than adding much. Angel/Cordelia was my OTFriendship pairing so it sucked big time that they went the predictable route - because strictly platonic male/female friendships are a rare find on tv as it is.

Not sure if you're aware already or not, but crazydiamondsue has just put together an excellent resource on meta that was done on the characters/episodes etc:

http://crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com/227177.html

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's encouraging! I know a lot of folks don't like s4, but if you think s3 is the worst...I'm still liking s3 in spite of its problems, so that gives me hope.

The Angel/Cordelia thing...yeah. URRRGH. I love m-f platonic friendship like burning, and it is so very rare...so, yeah, frustrated as anything. Sometimes I can be won over to a friendship going romantic (I ended up shipping Mulder & Scully...) but it's hard. And not when it's screwing with a team dynamic I love.

Thanks for the meta link! I haven't done much link-surfing at all for either BtVS or AtS, so recs are much appreciated, even if I'll probably wait 'til I'm done the shows to check them out.

(also, icon HEE. lol Erik!)

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of folks don't like s4,

A lot didn't but OTOH many think S4 is one of the best seasons (I'm one of them, I like 2 and 4 best). I can't say why without spoiling, but I was on the edge of my seat for the entire season.

And I shipped Cordy/Angel but I would've preferred it if they'd left that pairing to the fic writers. (There is some beautiful C/A fic out there; Yahtzee and Rheanna were writing that pairing, among others.) S3 has problems but also brought about some awesome stuff I also can't talk about. I loved Waiting in the Wings! I even loved the Gun/Fred/Wes triangle in it. And the Cordy/Angel, that *really* worked for me in that ep. I don't know, that whole episode to me had a feeling like it's under some spell... it had a different feel than the rest of the show; a lot of Whedon's later eps have.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I love the Cordy/Angel friendship but really don't ship it...I probably could in fic, but that they're doing it in the canon frustrates me enough that I probably won't be able to enjoy it in fic, either. Sigh!

"Waiting in the Wings" did have a fantasy feel that was quite lovely - I hadn't noticed Whedon penned it, but that doesn't surprise me.

[dovil.livejournal.com]

The bad of season four will strike you blind from it's awfulness, but then there's mini-arcs that crop up within it that are fantastic - it's like dental surgery without anesthetic; there's excrutiating pain but you kind of forget it after seeing the end results.

The Angel/Cordelia thing in season three just never felt organic to me - I mean, I know they're not real people, but it just felt too much like the heavy hand of the writers trying to shove them together rather than it happening naturally from the characters themselves - if that makes any sense. I think they did a much better job with Muller & Scully, god knows there was a build up to it. :)

Spoilers ahoy might be lurking in some of those meta posts, so probably a good idea to wait, and there's some good reading to be found.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ahahah to the dental surgery metaphor. At least I'm braced for it! I tend to do better when I go into something expecting the worse - then I can be happily surprised.

Angel/Cordelia - yes, exactly. gnine was saying it was like a switch had been flipped and suddenly everyone was romantically inclined. Maybe it was something in the water.

Mulder & Scully - I was majorly anti-MSR (NoRomo, is that what it was called?) back when I was watching/fanning on TXF - loved them as partners but they were a platonic OTP. But then after I stopped watching the show I mellowed, so by the time of the most recent movie, my favorite bit was that they were in bed together. But then, one of the reasons I liked them getting together was that it didn't really change the essence of their relationship, or the nature of the show (other forces altered it, but not MSR); while as that's not the case in AtS.

[joonscribble.livejournal.com]

Ah, you will soon be approaching the Angel timeline that I enjoyed the most during this show's existence. A lot of viewers didn't like it so I'll be interested to hear your take on it.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ooooh...very intrigued now! I know a lot of folks did not like s4 for various reasons, so have been a bit worried about it, but now I'm curious. (it's so hard for me to predict what I'll like or not like; sometimes I'm lockstep with the fandom major; other times I'm off in my own little bubble...)

[joonscribble.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the latter bit of season 3 and all of season 4 were sort of hated by many fans. But I really enjoyed it. And I know why I enjoyed it but I'll wait until you've actually seen the seasons before jumping up and down.

[tavabean.livejournal.com]

I loved that musical ep - VCR'd it back in the day and kept replaying the songs!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

It's a fantastic ep, I can see why! ^^

[concertigrossi.livejournal.com]

It's pretty clear Joss is a Gilbert and Sullivan fan, too...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee, yes...he loves most musicals, I have the impression...

[nerowill.livejournal.com]

I loved the musical--I bought the CD and still get a kick out of it. One of the things that was so well done, I thought, was the way the music (and the entire episode) really worked to advance the overall plot arc of the show.

*remembers how much I loved these shows back in the day* (oh wait, I still DO love them! Only now I'm a total Spike/Xander shipper which I never was when the shows were still on... :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, the way the musical fitted in with the plot arc was inspired. Really it's just wonderful all around!

Spike/Xander...heh, yeah, I can see it, even if it's not for me ^^

[nerowill.livejournal.com]

Well, Spike/Buffy was my first hardcore ship and the very first fanfiction I ever read. Then that slipped sideways into Spike/Angel... Then I went off and discovered 2 or 3 other wonderful, slashy fandoms. It was only years later when I made my way back to Buffy that I fell in love with Spike/Xan. So give it some time... ;)

[zimarra.livejournal.com]

Have you watched "dr horrible's Sing a long blog" yet?
Speaking of Joss writing musicals..

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes! I actually watched it when it first came out online, wonderful stuff! It's one of the major reasons I wanted to see the Buffy musical. ^^ Have you seen the DVD with the musical Commentary! track? great fun! XD

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

So far the team itself is still strong, but the show is showing more of the pairings and less of the team. Phooey.

Yeah, that disappointed me at the time. And, like I've said before, I loved and adored the Angel/Cordy platonic friendship, and was sorry when the show veered into romance territory. (It was one of those pairings I loved in fic, but would have been quite happy not to see actually happen in canon).

Season 4 is... well, I can't say too much without spoiling it. Unspoilery personal opinion: it's definitely a step up on the very uneven season 3, and has the strongest season arc AtS ever did, and in particular there's one piece of really fantastic casting/characterisation that adds an awful lot to the show. On the downside, the stuff that I disliked in season 4, I absolutely loathed.

Looking back, the thing I remember most about AtS is that it was a show where they were very prepared to try different things with the format and overall tone from season to season. A lot of that was probably geared at just trying to survive -- as I recall, AtS never got stellar ratings, and there was always a bit of 'will it be renewed?' uncertainty each year, so every new season they seemed to come back with a bunch of new things to try. When it worked, it worked big-time -- season 4 has its flaws, but it's streets ahead of season 1 in its storytelling ambition, and I always admired the AtS creative team for doing that. I mean, I love and adore SGA, but they stuck to the same thing for five years, whereas every season it felt like AtS came back saying, "Okay, now let's try this!"

[sholio]

I mean, I love and adore SGA, but they stuck to the same thing for five years, whereas every season it felt like AtS came back saying, "Okay, now let's try this!"

You know, the funny thing is, I actually felt like SGA did do that -- not to a huge degree, perhaps (I haven't seen AtS except for a few random episodes, so I can't compare them), but there were definitely shifts from season to season in style, tone, and the general fates of the characters ... more so than you tend to get in most non-arc-based shows, anyway. I think part of the apparent staticness of SGA had as much to do with the fandom as the show itself -- the fans definitely latched onto a particular era in the show's history as far as character relationships, cast, and overall style of the show (season two/early season three), and continued to carry that through in fic and meta, whereas the show moved on and did other things.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I think part of the apparent staticness of SGA had as much to do with the fandom as the show itself -- the fans definitely latched onto a particular era in the show's history as far as character relationships, cast, and overall style of the show (season two/early season three), and continued to carry that through in fic and meta, whereas the show moved on and did other things.

Yeah, I've been thinking that. It's like that fandom was living in a bubble somewhere between season two and three.

But still, the way the Stargate shows evolved over time doesn't compare to AtS. Angel did really quite radical changes both in tone and overall structure, every season has a totally distinctive feel.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I'm not liking the Angel/Cordy in the show but I think I'd like it in fic. ...or would have liked it; now the show's made me grouchy about the pairing. Some relationships are just better as subtext. (But you've got some gen fics with them, I've seen, which I'm looking forward to! ^^)

Now I am very curious about s4. Which is much better than dreading it! Even if I likely will hate some things about it...

--And following up comments below, I felt myself that SGA actually did attempt to reinvent itself from season to season. Whether it did so successfully is another story...

[sholio]

Heh, now that you're into season six, I can talk a little more about my Thoughts On Spike - because it was season six (being the first season I watched) where my opinions on Spike were formed, and it's a great deal of the reason why I don't like him much. Like I've said before, I don't loathe him; there are times when I like him quite a lot. But basically, I like him evil and I like him funny. Actually, when I jumped back to the early seasons after having gotten used to late-season Spike, I was really surprised how much I liked him when he was just being gleefully and slightly incompetently bad, as opposed to being fairly indifferent to him in later seasons.

(BTW, have you seen Tabula Rasa yet? I think that was season six ...)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yeah...I like Spike either way, but I can see how he could be more appealing as the incompetent baddy (zomg SO pathetically incompetent XD) than as the angstier figure he's becoming. I'm kind of disappointed he's been as angsty as he has been; I liked that he was one of the few consistently amusing spots before. Still think he's hot as anything, though, and I like Spike/Buffy a lot (I have a thing for antagonistic, dysfunctional het couples...) Also I'm...not exactly opposed to angst. (see: Angel. Even if I like Angel best when he's being a doofus. XP)

And yup, saw Tabula Rasa (it's right after the musical ep)! Much fun, though not my favorite for humor (that still might be the Evil!Willow ep of s3. oh man I loved that ep!)

[sholio]

I loved the evil Willow ep too; for some reason, though, I was thinking about Spike's "Bloody hell, I'm British!" the other day from Tabula Rasa and totally cracking up. XD

(Tabula Rasa, in general, was an episode that I thought should've been either angstier or funnier than it actually was; parts of it were a lot of fun, and the comedy potential was through the roof, but in general I remember being vaguely disappointed that they didn't use all the potential to better effect, either to explore the characters or just to do flat-out hilarity. On the other hand, Spike thinking he's Giles' son from the accents is probably worth the price of admission all by itself. *g*)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(Tabula Rasa, in general, was an episode that I thought should've been either angstier or funnier than it actually was; parts of it were a lot of fun, and the comedy potential was through the roof, but in general I remember being vaguely disappointed that they didn't use all the potential to better effect, either to explore the characters or just to do flat-out hilarity. On the other hand, Spike thinking he's Giles' son from the accents is probably worth the price of admission all by itself. *g*)

A big YES to all of this. Especially including "Randy Giles"'s accent, and the assumed familial connection...HEE. Spike & Giles is one of my favorite things in the entire show (I loved the whole s4 bit where Spike was rooming at Giles's house for no particular reason except that he knew they were the good guys and morally obliged not to stake a helpless vampire...)

[crashtestskater.livejournal.com]

Ah the musical, come on folks, Once More with Feeling. Love it. I also loved tabula Rosa. Who am I, Giles and Spike being father/son, how can you not delight in it.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

They both were great fun! I've got the musical soundtrack to listen to now ^^