on fan critiques and "hate"-fanning
May. 20th, 2013 04:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xparrotHappened to see on a few different places on my flist that old classic conflict between squee-fans and "hate"-fans - fans who love something and focus their fanning on what they love (whether or not they acknowledge its flaws) vs fans who are annoyed/frustrated/outraged by something but keep watching and discussing it anyway. While no one really questions squee-fans, "hate"-fandom can be baffling for those who prefer to simply ignore the things they don't like.
Having been down the hate-fandom road before, I think the reason hate-fans stick with it is very similar to the reasons anyone sticks with squee-fanning: because it's an enjoyable, creative, social activity. Hate-fans fan together, share their outrage, write the stories they want to read, in general bond over their irritation.
It's not quite the same as squee-fanning - the biggest difference from my perspective is that hate-fanning is a more social activity, because while in squee-fanning one tends to rewatch the object of one's squee as well as talk about it, hate-fans tend not to want to rewatch much; they prefer to just talk about it. The thing is, though, that the talk may be negative about the subject, it's not necessarily negative talk; sharing one's opinions with like-minded sorts can be a positive, constructive experience, whether those opinions are positive or negative. (Case in point, the sibs and I stayed up 'til 6 AM discussing the plotholes in the new Star Trek movie, immensely enjoyed ourselves and learned a bit about orbital mechanics.)
For most hate fans, they actually like a significant part of what they're watching, but don't like certain elements, and after a time it becomes fascinating to see how far something goes off the path you wanted it to follow. At least for me, past a certain point, when I realize that what I liked is gone for good or else entirely outweighed by what I dislike, I will give up on something. But that's a different point for everyone. And sometimes if you loved the core concept enough, it can be almost impossible to let go of what's left of it. (See the Star Wars Fans Hate Star Wars phenomenon.)
But sometimes something can be so ridiculously awful that you enjoy it for its awfulness, either out of a love of camp or train-wreck fascination. There isn't anything wrong with this fundamentally, as I see it; the main problem with hate-fanning is when it intersects with squee-fandom. Hate-fans have a responsibility to try not to inflict their views on other fen, either by harshing squee directly or more indirectly such as dissing hated elements in fic comments (even seemingly complimentary things like "X pairing sucks, I'm so glad you didn't have it in this story!" can be really annoying to someone who likes X pairing but just didn't happen to write it in that story.) And hate-fans have the same responsibilities as any fans to monitor their own preferences and communication and try to excise socially harmful language and concepts as much as possible.
But just as most squee-fans (very rightfully!) don't want their squee harshed by haters, so most hate-fans don't want to be told that they're wrong and what they hate is really better than they think, or that if they don't like it they should just stop watching; that they shouldn't fan the way that they're fanning. (This times ten when they're told that they're sexist or racist or other-ist for hating on something; it feels just as bad as a squee-fan being told they're sexist or racist for liking something problematic.) When I've been a hate-fan myself, I often got a lot of enjoyment out of yelling at the screen and rolling my eyes at the object of my "hate", or complaining about it with folks; the times it made me miserable or uncomfortable was when I got into discussions/arguments with fans who liked it. I made them upset for passing judgment on something they liked, they upset me in turn by arguing that my own opinion was invalid - bad times all around. So these days I am a lot more careful when I get into hate-fanning, limit it very carefully to those people I know share my feelings, and enjoy indulging in it (it's why I so enjoy hating Smallville - pretty much everyone agrees it was an awful show...!)
This rant brought to you by Linkara and his hilarious, insightful screeds against bad comics - I love me some delicious comicbook fanboy rage (especially when it comes with a good dose of feminism and highly amusing narration)!
Having been down the hate-fandom road before, I think the reason hate-fans stick with it is very similar to the reasons anyone sticks with squee-fanning: because it's an enjoyable, creative, social activity. Hate-fans fan together, share their outrage, write the stories they want to read, in general bond over their irritation.
It's not quite the same as squee-fanning - the biggest difference from my perspective is that hate-fanning is a more social activity, because while in squee-fanning one tends to rewatch the object of one's squee as well as talk about it, hate-fans tend not to want to rewatch much; they prefer to just talk about it. The thing is, though, that the talk may be negative about the subject, it's not necessarily negative talk; sharing one's opinions with like-minded sorts can be a positive, constructive experience, whether those opinions are positive or negative. (Case in point, the sibs and I stayed up 'til 6 AM discussing the plotholes in the new Star Trek movie, immensely enjoyed ourselves and learned a bit about orbital mechanics.)
For most hate fans, they actually like a significant part of what they're watching, but don't like certain elements, and after a time it becomes fascinating to see how far something goes off the path you wanted it to follow. At least for me, past a certain point, when I realize that what I liked is gone for good or else entirely outweighed by what I dislike, I will give up on something. But that's a different point for everyone. And sometimes if you loved the core concept enough, it can be almost impossible to let go of what's left of it. (See the Star Wars Fans Hate Star Wars phenomenon.)
But sometimes something can be so ridiculously awful that you enjoy it for its awfulness, either out of a love of camp or train-wreck fascination. There isn't anything wrong with this fundamentally, as I see it; the main problem with hate-fanning is when it intersects with squee-fandom. Hate-fans have a responsibility to try not to inflict their views on other fen, either by harshing squee directly or more indirectly such as dissing hated elements in fic comments (even seemingly complimentary things like "X pairing sucks, I'm so glad you didn't have it in this story!" can be really annoying to someone who likes X pairing but just didn't happen to write it in that story.) And hate-fans have the same responsibilities as any fans to monitor their own preferences and communication and try to excise socially harmful language and concepts as much as possible.
But just as most squee-fans (very rightfully!) don't want their squee harshed by haters, so most hate-fans don't want to be told that they're wrong and what they hate is really better than they think, or that if they don't like it they should just stop watching; that they shouldn't fan the way that they're fanning. (This times ten when they're told that they're sexist or racist or other-ist for hating on something; it feels just as bad as a squee-fan being told they're sexist or racist for liking something problematic.) When I've been a hate-fan myself, I often got a lot of enjoyment out of yelling at the screen and rolling my eyes at the object of my "hate", or complaining about it with folks; the times it made me miserable or uncomfortable was when I got into discussions/arguments with fans who liked it. I made them upset for passing judgment on something they liked, they upset me in turn by arguing that my own opinion was invalid - bad times all around. So these days I am a lot more careful when I get into hate-fanning, limit it very carefully to those people I know share my feelings, and enjoy indulging in it (it's why I so enjoy hating Smallville - pretty much everyone agrees it was an awful show...!)
This rant brought to you by Linkara and his hilarious, insightful screeds against bad comics - I love me some delicious comicbook fanboy rage (especially when it comes with a good dose of feminism and highly amusing narration)!
