Thanking you again, and apologizing in advance for length!
That's interesting --yeah I can see acknowledgement that he had committed this 'crime' as distinct from actual remorse.
I didn't mean to imply that I thought Takahashi was critical of Kaiba for needing an opponent. Like you I think that's a facet of his character. The idea of a 'worthy opponent' is also an established martial arts thing -- where the idea that an opponent is also your partner (this is particularly strong in Judo where you literally can't practice a single move -- except falling -- without a partner) and also someone who pushes you to your best is precious.
I think it was more the tense thing -- that I thought it was a wonderful description of Kaiba at the end of Duelist Kingdom or the start of Battle City, but it didn't seem to acknowledge any of the changes he goes through, so I guess combined with the use of the present tense, I thought the implication was that Kaiba hadn't changed. That was probably me reading too much into it.
What has always struck me about the duels is as we've both said, the way they are used to test philosophies. I know aboslutely nothing about samurai philosophies except that Judo was created as a modern alternative to them. Judo was created in 1886 -- Jigoro Kano would have been a contemporary in age of Sanosuke or Yahiko -- and he thought of himself as an educator not a martial artist -- his writings are eerily like the philophy of Kaoru's kamiya kasshin-ryu (or perhaps not eerily so - lol) The name, btw reflects the change in philosophy -- most of the moves are based on ju-jitsu, but this is a 'do' not a 'jutsu' -- it was always explained to me that this reflected the change from a means of combat to a peaceful undertaking (an odd way to describe judo to anyone who's played it -- but I guess everything's relative!)
Anyway -- there is a point here -- the pivotal event in Judo'shistory was that Jigoro Kano's fledgling dojo, the Kodokan, entered and won a challenge against the Tokyo Police. What's interesting is that the importance of this victory was not that the individual opponents were stronger -- or even that it showed that Judo had effective fighting techniques -- but that the competition was considered to have proved that Kano's philophy that strength was acquired through cooperation and peaceful means was 'stronger' than the opposing more martial philosophies. (I'm not sure a jujitsu person would have heard the same story, but I'm not about to argue with a sensei or a room full of black belts.)
Anyway that mindset -- that personal competition is a way to test beliefs (besides being a pretty old one) seems to really fit Kaiba -- and it is inherent in martial arts -- that these make you stronger because of their values, not because you have memorized some nifty moves.
This sort of seems to be part of the opponent thing with Kaiba -- that he is not only looking to test and measure himself -- which he certainly is -- but that he is also looking to test his beliefs -- so that it almost has become the way he learns. I suppose it is this quality more than any other that makes me think he could make a transition to needing a mission as much as an opponent -- as at the end of Alcatraz. This is also similar to Aoshi. I don't think Kaiba is the kind of person who could live without a mission or an opponent -- I think he must always have an external goal and an external measure, if that makes sense.
Anyway I grovel at your feet for translating this and posting it! It's certainly given me a lot to think about! In a shameless bit of self promotion, coincidentally a lot of The Newly Revised Book of the Dead is about the whole losing = death equation (lol)so the timing was excellent!
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winterfish
Re: I also got a name!
Date: 2006-05-06 01:00 pm (UTC)That's interesting --yeah I can see acknowledgement that he had committed this 'crime' as distinct from actual remorse.
I didn't mean to imply that I thought Takahashi was critical of Kaiba for needing an opponent. Like you I think that's a facet of his character. The idea of a 'worthy opponent' is also an established martial arts thing -- where the idea that an opponent is also your partner (this is particularly strong in Judo where you literally can't practice a single move -- except falling -- without a partner) and also someone who pushes you to your best is precious.
I think it was more the tense thing -- that I thought it was a wonderful description of Kaiba at the end of Duelist Kingdom or the start of Battle City, but it didn't seem to acknowledge any of the changes he goes through, so I guess combined with the use of the present tense, I thought the implication was that Kaiba hadn't changed. That was probably me reading too much into it.
What has always struck me about the duels is as we've both said, the way they are used to test philosophies. I know aboslutely nothing about samurai philosophies except that Judo was created as a modern alternative to them. Judo was created in 1886 -- Jigoro Kano would have been a contemporary in age of Sanosuke or Yahiko -- and he thought of himself as an educator not a martial artist -- his writings are eerily like the philophy of Kaoru's kamiya kasshin-ryu (or perhaps not eerily so - lol) The name, btw reflects the change in philosophy -- most of the moves are based on ju-jitsu, but this is a 'do' not a 'jutsu' -- it was always explained to me that this reflected the change from a means of combat to a peaceful undertaking (an odd way to describe judo to anyone who's played it -- but I guess everything's relative!)
Anyway -- there is a point here -- the pivotal event in Judo'shistory was that Jigoro Kano's fledgling dojo, the Kodokan, entered and won a challenge against the Tokyo Police. What's interesting is that the importance of this victory was not that the individual opponents were stronger -- or even that it showed that Judo had effective fighting techniques -- but that the competition was considered to have proved that Kano's philophy that strength was acquired through cooperation and peaceful means was 'stronger' than the opposing more martial philosophies. (I'm not sure a jujitsu person would have heard the same story, but I'm not about to argue with a sensei or a room full of black belts.)
Anyway that mindset -- that personal competition is a way to test beliefs (besides being a pretty old one) seems to really fit Kaiba -- and it is inherent in martial arts -- that these make you stronger because of their values, not because you have memorized some nifty moves.
This sort of seems to be part of the opponent thing with Kaiba -- that he is not only looking to test and measure himself -- which he certainly is -- but that he is also looking to test his beliefs -- so that it almost has become the way he learns. I suppose it is this quality more than any other that makes me think he could make a transition to needing a mission as much as an opponent -- as at the end of Alcatraz. This is also similar to Aoshi. I don't think Kaiba is the kind of person who could live without a mission or an opponent -- I think he must always have an external goal and an external measure, if that makes sense.
Anyway I grovel at your feet for translating this and posting it! It's certainly given me a lot to think about! In a shameless bit of self promotion, coincidentally a lot of The Newly Revised Book of the Dead is about the whole losing = death equation (lol)so the timing was excellent!
Talk to you later...