calling all ye old school Whovians
Jul. 3rd, 2007 02:26 am(First, quick follow-up to my Who music post. No dialogue in this one, so no spoilers, just the music (plus a cry from Ten), and if you want to know why Murray Gold pwns my soul, or at least my mp3 player, this is why - mp3 ripped from the denouement of "Last of the Time Lords," if you've seen the ep you'll remember the scene.)
Soooo. The Doctor Who Christmas special is six months away. And me? Not so much with the wanting to wait. And there are well over 600 episodes I haven't seen. So, to all the old-school fen out there - what should we be watching?
Thus far, we've rewatched the '96 movie (I'd seen it its original broadcast on Fox, when it made zero sense to me. It made about a fifth of a sense to me this time, and while it's got a measure of the crack, it doesn't have the...love, that so vividly inspired the new series. Paul McGann is adorable as the Eighth Doctor, though, even if he is kissing girls. And it does have about the only possible way I can imagine the Doctor using a gun - when he takes himself hostage, 'give me your scooter or I'll shoot myself!' Yup, that's the Doctor.)
We also watched "Pyramids of Mars" for a taste of Tom Baker's Doctor, and Sarah Jane Smith. Robot mummies! Oh dear. And oh, the f/x! (hey, I'm a second-generation Trekkie, going back to TOS - full speed to wobbly sets, bring on the camp!) (also Sutekh's voice drove me nuts, I swear I've heard it before but IMDB comes up blank. Maybe someone was imitating him in something?) And the Fourth Doctor is delightful, would like to see more of him. It's entertaining watching the original show and seeing the same char - because he is still the Doctor, then and now, so much of the basic individual is recognizable, his intensity, his eccentricity, his easily distracted genius, his compassion. His habit of holding his companion's hand as they run about! (*squee*) It probably doesn't hurt that Tom Baker is David Tennant's Doctor and thus he's drawing on the Fourth Doctor in his portrayal of Ten.
So, what old-Who eps should I check out? I'm game for anything, though of course I'm especially biased toward h/c and angst. And crack comedy. And bad-ass scifi. What are your favorite eps? Why are they? Share the love!
Soooo. The Doctor Who Christmas special is six months away. And me? Not so much with the wanting to wait. And there are well over 600 episodes I haven't seen. So, to all the old-school fen out there - what should we be watching?
Thus far, we've rewatched the '96 movie (I'd seen it its original broadcast on Fox, when it made zero sense to me. It made about a fifth of a sense to me this time, and while it's got a measure of the crack, it doesn't have the...love, that so vividly inspired the new series. Paul McGann is adorable as the Eighth Doctor, though, even if he is kissing girls. And it does have about the only possible way I can imagine the Doctor using a gun - when he takes himself hostage, 'give me your scooter or I'll shoot myself!' Yup, that's the Doctor.)
We also watched "Pyramids of Mars" for a taste of Tom Baker's Doctor, and Sarah Jane Smith. Robot mummies! Oh dear. And oh, the f/x! (hey, I'm a second-generation Trekkie, going back to TOS - full speed to wobbly sets, bring on the camp!) (also Sutekh's voice drove me nuts, I swear I've heard it before but IMDB comes up blank. Maybe someone was imitating him in something?) And the Fourth Doctor is delightful, would like to see more of him. It's entertaining watching the original show and seeing the same char - because he is still the Doctor, then and now, so much of the basic individual is recognizable, his intensity, his eccentricity, his easily distracted genius, his compassion. His habit of holding his companion's hand as they run about! (*squee*) It probably doesn't hurt that Tom Baker is David Tennant's Doctor and thus he's drawing on the Fourth Doctor in his portrayal of Ten.
So, what old-Who eps should I check out? I'm game for anything, though of course I'm especially biased toward h/c and angst. And crack comedy. And bad-ass scifi. What are your favorite eps? Why are they? Share the love!
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Date: 2007-07-02 06:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-02 06:39 pm (UTC)Thank you so much for this and all the other sound clips because I adore Murray Gold. He's been collaborating with R.T.Davies since the Queer as Folk UK days and his music has only gotten more and more incredible. The official series 3 soundtrack for Doctor Who better get here damn fast.
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Date: 2007-07-02 07:00 pm (UTC)At any rate I recentally re-watched The Sea Devils which is a great third doctor ep, though it retains all the usual Old!School warnings. But if nothing else it has sword fights, Joe Grant being really rather kick ass in places (suprisingly enough), fantastic sound effects (BBC Radiophonics Workshop. Very special) The Master AND the Clangers. It also holds the position of being one of the very few Who eps to actually teriffy me as a child.
Another Must See has to be Gensis of the Daleks. Which is just awsome because you know how much builds out of it and, in it's own right, it's a damn good ep.
If you dare to check out the Seventh doc then I would like to recomment Ghost Light (beautifully spooky) and I think one called... the curse of Fenris? Not sure about that one but it's good at any rate.
Those are what my recomendations are.
My personal rec's...
Date: 2007-07-02 07:58 pm (UTC)Very few Patrick Troughton episodes remain alive. The BBC didn't know what they had, so they threw out the tapes. Stupid BBC.
The first Doctor I ever saw was Jon Pertwee, the third Doctor. In his reign, the Doctor doesn't have the key to the TARDIS, and can't explore Time and Space. He becomes involved with UNIT. Remember UNIT from the the Chris Eccleston season? That's it. I loved Jon Pertwee as the Doctor. The episodes are in colour. The Doctor is a James Bondish sort of figure, rather than an explorer.
Everyone else will rec the Tom Baker eps, but I haven't seen many of them, so I'll leave it up to the experts.
The Fifth Doctor, Peter Davison... the writing was beginning to go downhill then, but I like Peter Davison as the Doctor. Well, hell, I love all the Doctors. The first episode, 'Castrovalva', is interesting because it was based on an Escher print. Figure that out if you can. :-)))
Colin Baker was unfairly treated. He's a good actor, and holds no grudges against the Doctor himself. But the writing and production values had really disintegrated by that time. He was the one to be blamed, and he got fired. Bah!
The stories by Sylvester McCoy's era were too silly for my taste.
And by now, we're up to Doctor Eight, and you've already seen the TV movie. Yeah, not really canon in some ways, but it was enjoyable.
There! That's my take on it all.
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Date: 2007-07-02 08:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-02 10:20 pm (UTC)Not just ROBOT MUMMIES, but ROBOT MUMMIES WITH DOLLY PARTON CHESTS!!! :D
And oh, the f/x!
Dincha just love the superimposed FLAMES when the Doctor blowed up the pyramid-spaceship thing Real Good?
(also Sutekh's voice drove me nuts, I swear I've heard it before but IMDB comes up blank. Maybe someone was imitating him in something?)
And here is where memory mostly fails me, 'cause y'know it's been almost 30 years (!!!!) but IIRC, the actor portraying Sutekh (who was actually in the suit, not just doing a voice-over) was primarily a radio actor, hence that lovely, evocative voice.... I believe Lis said that the actor had a hella time SITTING STILL while performing Sutekh (since, of course, being on radio, he'd act things out however he needed to get the end vocal result, never having to worry about actually being seen....)
Gosh, amazing how these bits of fannish trivia just rise to the surface among the rest of the detritus circling in my brain, isn't it?
probably doesn't hurt that Tom Baker is David Tennant's Doctor and thus he's drawing on the Fourth Doctor in his portrayal of Ten.
Oh, man, I did NOT need to hear that. A Four-ish Ten, huh? ::scowls::
So, what old-Who eps should I check out? I'm game for anything, though of course I'm especially biased toward h/c and angst.
Oh, man.... my gateway drug episode was "The Brain of Morbius." It's... awful. And yet the Doctor suffers greatly in it. I seem to recall a dying Doctor with his head in Sarah Jane's lap....
And... and... and.. the title "Planet of Evil" strikes a chord as having OMG Doctor!pain. But I could be wrong.
And crack comedy.
Damn, I'll have to look up the title of the one featuring the Usurians, who taxed EVERYTHING. "Time is money!"
And bad-ass scifi.
I don't know about bad-ass, but BAD sci-fi can be found in "The Invisible Enemy" which is a rip-off of "Fantastic Voyage." And I think there were miniaturized clones too.....
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Date: 2007-07-03 12:34 am (UTC)Fifth Doctor, now, brings me to my favorite male companion, Turlough, and I can't help poking at you to watch his first three episodes: "Mawdryn Undead," "Terminus" and "Enlightenment." I'd also recommend "Planet of Fire," though actually more for the Master's role than for Turlough's.
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Date: 2007-07-03 12:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 12:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 02:11 am (UTC)For a good solid overview of the best of Who, I would run through the Dalek episodes, and the Master episodes. It will give you a good selection of the best of all the Doctors. (Caveat: I cannot abide the Seventh doctor, and found every episode of his run --and I did see them ALL-- to be such that I never want to see them again.)\
Tom Baker did have the best companions, however, or at least, my favorites: Leela and K-9. The arc where they traveled with him is my favorite arc that isn't in Colin Baker's run.
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:16 am (UTC)Yup, I figured you'd want that clip! Any others, too, just ask...
Hee to old Who! Have got a fair share of things to try out, anyway!
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:29 am (UTC)If there's any other 3rd series clips you want, just ask!
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:33 am (UTC)"Sea Devils," eh? I've been wanting to see some of Jon Pertwee's Doctor, so will have to dig that one up! Thanks for the other recs, too, will let you know what we think! ^^ (eee more Daleks will always be fun!)
Re: My personal rec's...
Date: 2007-07-03 03:37 am (UTC)Re: My personal rec's...
Date: 2007-07-03 03:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 03:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 03:57 am (UTC)XDDD (there was one of the modern specials that Tom Baker was complaining about how they really did make him dress up as a mummy and shamble around, rather than just getting some stunt guy to do it. I think mainly just to annoy him XD)
And the new series actually brought the Sutekh guy back, because they all loved his voice from that ep (I'm telling you, the amount of fanning that goes on backstage in the new series is something. Not the least of which from Ten's actor, who casually quotes ep titles with which monsters and threw a hissy to get the credits changed from "Doctor Who" to "the Doctor" when he joined up.)
Oh this is not fair!! You know how to rec stuff to me! Eeeevil h/c fan that you are! :P (the Usurians are from "The Sun-makers" according to a comment below, will check it & the others out! ...Doctor!pain, don't say that, do you know what that does to me!?)
And just to be eeeevil myself -
A Four-ish Ten, huh?
Well, not exactly; Ten's performance is quite original from what I've seen. But elements, definitely. Ten talks rather more (than, er, anyone ever) and *bounces* and he's rude in a more oblivious way - the Fourth Doctor can be deliberately cutting, while Ten tends to insult accidentally half the time. And on purpose the other half. Ten's dark side also runs deeper, I believe. Ten is awesome because usually he is so young-seeming and fun and silly...but he's a lot older than he was. "I used to have so much mercy." It's dangerous to cross Ten.
And oh, the h/c...I have mentioned how very good David Tennant is at screaming in pain. (check out those mp3s I upped! from "42" especially...) Fortunately he's got his companions...and hugs! so many hugs! (this icon's not even half...!)
I'd be tempted to rec if nothing else "School Reunion" for SJS's return, because I think it's handled beautifully. At least Elizabeth Sladen thought so; she was thinking it was going to be an in-joke cameo and didn't want to debase her char like that, so was going to turn it down, but then she read the script, and was thrilled to do it. (and I suspect some of the Tenth Doctor's excitement at seeing her again is actually David Tennant bouncing about meeting one of his boyhood idols ^^)
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Date: 2007-07-03 04:05 am (UTC)Thank you for the Fourth Doctor recs! Leela looks very entertaining, the bit I've seen of her in the specials, will check 'em out! And we've been wanting to see the Fifth Doctor too (a male companion especially sounds fascinating, he doesn't have many of those...)
Plus, anything with the Master I perk up at. Eternal nemeses do it for me big-time!
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Date: 2007-07-03 04:11 am (UTC)Watching Daleks and the Master sounds like fun to me! And I got a bunch of Leela recs above, so, yes, will haveta check all these out - thank you!
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Date: 2007-07-03 04:41 am (UTC)And since there are about a million months until Christmas... (Is it sad that I'm more looking forward to the Chrismas special than Christmas itself...? XD)
Be sure to let us know which ones you liked! As someone who had barely even heard of DW before watching the new series, it's hard to know where to begin XD
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Date: 2007-07-03 04:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 06:03 am (UTC)Re: My personal rec's...
Date: 2007-07-03 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-03 08:14 am (UTC)It's beautiful, it really is... OST now pls?? WANT. Really, really badly. I wonder what that piece is called? It's the same used for the Master's madness in the Gallifrey flashback, right? And - oh! Speaking of music! You've seen who's guest starring in the Christmas special, right? Wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity for Murray Gold to write another song? And have Kylie sing it! I would like that, I think.
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Date: 2007-07-03 10:02 am (UTC)And I really need to watch the 3rd season of New Who. I haven't yet, but I'm now looking forward to it a lot.
(PS. And just for fun - try and get hold of The Curse of Fatal Death. It was done for the 1999 UK Comic Relief fund raiser, and it's not canon, but it is absolutely hysterical and includes Rowan Atkinson as the Doctor and Julia Sawalha (Saffy from AbFab) as his companion, with Jonathan Pryce as the Master).)
(And for pure crack, you can't go past The Happiness Patrol.)
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Date: 2007-07-03 02:58 pm (UTC)I recommend Peter Davison episodes! Because he is adorable! And daft! And his plots generally consist of him bumbling about while everything sorts itself out around him. It's great :P Hee. If you want good eps of him I suggest- Castrovalva (his first), Earthshock, Planet of Fire and Caves of Androzani (his last). At least two of those have old!school Master in too :) Although one of the better Anthony Ainley Master eps is Slyvester's Survival.
And I'll end there before my recommendations get too crazy!
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:08 pm (UTC)OST HOSHIII~~~ yes! And yep, the funeral is the same theme as the Gallifrey scene - not the same piece exactly; there's unique scores for all the eps, as far as I can tell, so while themes are repeated every ep has a different variation (is gonna make the OST frustrating, I just know it's gonna be missing some of the arrangements I like. They need to release the OSTs for individual eps! Some shows have before, maybe they will for this one?)
I've seen the guest star for the Xmas special but have never heard of her! But I wouldn't mind another Murry Gold song, certainly!
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:09 pm (UTC)But yes. The Brig! Brilliant. Though, it'll be better if you check him out in some Pertwee eps first, since that's when the character first came into his own. Someone above mentioned The Sea Devils, which I second. Great old!school stuff. The Deamons is also a bit of a classic, both for the Brig and the Master :D
This really is the end now!
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Date: 2007-07-03 03:39 pm (UTC)(and you're not the only one whose holiday anticipation is going to be taking a rather fangirlish slant...this'll be as bad as the Xmas we were watching B5...!)
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Date: 2007-07-03 04:05 pm (UTC)Enjoy 3rd series! IMO it's the best season of New Who yet.
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Date: 2007-07-03 06:11 pm (UTC)Thanks much for the recs - I'm looking forward to checking everything out! At least it won't be a Who-less 6 months ^^
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Date: 2007-07-03 06:25 pm (UTC)Wiki is in fact right (as is so often the case!) the last 2 4th eps are related at least to Castrovalva. But a lot of old school stuff is related to other things that you don't necessarily have to know about really. It was different back then see, everything ended in a cliffhanger! Well... kind of :p I miss the old cliffhangers, the new series doesn't allow for enought of them.
Have with your DW-a-thon!
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Date: 2007-07-03 08:42 pm (UTC)Iiiinteresting, though, about Pertwee and - was that the Delgado Master?
It's so very beautiful and evocative and lovely, and oh, I want it! It's also interesting to listen to the variations, and - oh, it's just too gorgeous. (Though my copy of your file is now skipping in some places. No idea why. Is your copy fine?)
...you. Hadn't heard of her? That's - well. Um. Maybe she's more famous here in Europe and Australia and... ...no, really, you'd never heard of her? Interesting. Anyway - the first thing I thought about is that she's really tiny. About 150 cm, to David Tennant's 185, which means it's going to look really, really funny when they run around together. XD (If you've seen the photo of her and David, she's standing on a couple of stairs to reach that high.)
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Date: 2007-07-03 11:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-04 03:22 am (UTC)so, yes, OTP through the ages ^^;
My mp3's playing fine, and if you listened to it once without trouble...try d/ling it again, maybe it got corrupted somehow?
And nope, never heard of her! I think the Doctor said her name in an ep before? I might have heard a song by her (not sure, haven't seen her list or anything) but I'm guessing she's never had a major hit in the US, and I'm not really up on pop music unless it gets thrown at me, so...
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Date: 2007-07-04 03:31 am (UTC)I kind of love that it is all backstory. J-chan says it's like watching very long and poorly filmed flashback!
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Date: 2007-07-04 03:48 am (UTC)The great part about the old-school cliffhangers, for me, is that New Who uses the exact same stinger music at the end of the episodes, so either way we always know exactly when the ep is ending. ^^
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Date: 2007-07-06 12:27 am (UTC)For William Hartnell -
I never really got into the 1st Doctor. They're okay but not really my thing. However the first three eps are good viewing just for background:
1. An Unearthly Child
2. The Daleks
3. The Edge of Destruction
Patrick Troughton -
I've only actually seen 2 eps. One was a lot of fun the other unwatchably boring.
I recommend:
37. The Tomb of the Cybermen
Jon Pertwee -
His episodes were pretty consistently good, but not many of them standout individually. I'd recommend any of the Dalek episodes. He did 3 of them:
60. Day of the Daleks
68. Planet of the Daleks
72. Death to the Daleks
Tom Baker (my personal favorite)-
I love some of the Leela episodes:
90. The Robots of Death
91. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
92. Horror of Fang Rock
The Key to Time Arc is probably the definitive Doctor Who story arc and is not to be missed:
98. The Ribos Operation
99. The Pirate Planet
100. The Stones of Blood
101. The Androids of Tara
102. The Power of Kroll
103. The Armageddon Factor
There's a good mix of comedy and drama in the bunch and lots of fun with the 1st Romana and the 4th Doctor being snarky to each other.
Peter Davidson -
I've always found this Doctor kind of forgetable. I did like:
135. Planet of Fire
Colin Baker -
The series was really uneven with eps I couldn't stand but his Dalek episode is one of my all time favorite Doctor Who eps:
143. Revelation of the Daleks
Sylvester McCoy -
An excellent cast, but probably the weakest overall writing. I can't really recommend any episodes in particular but I did enjoy the reappearance of the Daleks and the Master, respectively:
152. Remembrance of the Daleks
159. Survival
It was also kind of nifty to see the Brigadier again:
154. Silver Nemesis
And 8, 9, & 10 you already know.
For more details on each of these episodes, I'd suggest checking here:
http://www.gallifreyone.com/epguide.php
no subject
Date: 2007-07-09 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-28 03:46 am (UTC)First, seconding Five Doctors, Curse of Fenric, and Battlefield. The former because it's fun watching the Doctors interact, and we get background on Gallifrey; plus, you get a nice overview of several companions. The latter two because, while Sylvester McCoy does have some silly storylines, he also has some lovely dark Doctor moments.
Adding:
The Three Doctors: During Pertwee's era, the first time any of the Doctors met up. Doctor interaction and the Brig's reaction to everything going on are both highlights. It's also the last appearance of William Hartnell.
Happiness Patrol: McCoy era. Admittedly, this one gets weird, but there's something damn sinister about a killer made out of candy. And Fifi.
And, while I know I've seen a lot of people complain about him, I'd recommend watching something with Adric. He's not the first companion to die while traveling with the Doctor, but I think the eps with Katarina and Sara Kingdom are pretty much lost.
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Date: 2007-07-28 10:13 am (UTC)I don't mind a lurker at all - everyone welcome, and I appreciate the recs! We've started watching eps, Fourth & Fifth Doctor mostly. Have enjoyed those. I actually rather liked Adric, the Doctor is fun with
Wesley Crushera kid! Though I was disappointed by his death, or rather the almost entire lack of acknowledgment - "Sigh, Adric's dead...now we wanna go to the fair!"(actually so far the only companion I don't like is Nyssa; far as I'm concerned her only purpose is to be slashy with Tegan...)
Must check out McCoy - always up for a dark Doctor. Also, if there's any Third Doctor eps you'd recommend, I'd like to see more with Pertwee, we watched "The Sea Devils" and the ep itself was rather slow, but I liked his Doctor!)
no subject
Date: 2007-07-28 11:26 pm (UTC)With the McCoy eps, you might want to stick with his last two seasons; they're darker and, IMO at least, a bit better. Plus, that way, you get to watch Ace (who beats up Daleks with a baseball bat) rather than Mel (who screams. A lot).
As for Pertwee recs, I've unfortunately not seen that many. I did, however, ask my mother, who's watched the show since she was in her teens. Between the two of us, we settled on:
Terror of the Autons: The first appearance of both the Master and Jo Grant. It was also highly compained about by parents because of the faceless policemen and the homicidal doll.
The Mind of Evil: I've never seen it, admittedly, but Mom remembers it as being quite good. The summary I'm reading mentions a scene in Chinese, a rocken transporter hijacking, a ground-to-air missile, and UNIT storming a prison.
The Daemons: More of the Master, this time involving witchcraft, an alien masquerading as the Devil, and maypole dancing. This is a fun one.
The Time Warrior: While it's not one of my absolute favorites, it does introduce Sarah Jane Smith. Plus, the Sontarans? Evil Mr. Potato Heads. Seriously.
Planet of the Spiders: The last Pertwee episode. Giant spiders and chase scenes.
Also, if you can get a hold of it, you'd probably enjoy seeing More Than 30 Years in the TARDIS. It's a documentary made after the series ended detailing the creation/writing/casting/making of/fandom/what have you. They bring back several former Doctors and Companions to interview, and have archival footage from when the show first took off. It's also really good for random facts and backstory (like the fact that aspirin could kill the Doctor).
Hope this helps.