state of the [sga] fangirl address

[xparrot]

So we caught up watching SGA, all the way through 4x04. Actually, we caught up a few days ago, which for those of you keeping track means that we watched the whole show in something rather under two weeks. See, this is why I'm nervous about getting into new shows, because the amount of time it takes me to go from "...whatever" to "O M G SQUEEEE <3 *sparklesparkle*!!!1111!!" is often too small to be calculated in rational numbers, and the acceleration tends to give me whiplash, as well as reducing my brain to useless fangirling mush for days on end.

Incidentally, yeah, officially, SGA = O M G SQUEEEE <3 *sparklesparkle*!!!1111!!

Don't know where to begin, so I'll just say that I have reverted to my roots and am firmly in the gen camp of SGA fandom. The teaminess is far and away my favorite part of the show, that whole 'finally finding a family' thing that gets me every time, discovering your true home a galaxy away from the planet you were born on. The idea of Atlantis itself is awesome fun - I think I saw friendshipper somewhere along the line comparing it to the ultimate college dorm experience, which is brilliantly true - it's all these highly intelligent, motivated people gathered from all sorts of backgrounds and places and living together in this strange new world for the sake of learning and discovery. And fighting evil space-bug vampires. But in between Wraith attacks, you just know there's always people standing around the corridors of Atlantis, having hours-long debates late into the night about the nature of the universe and the existence of God and why the Star Wars prequels suck, or giving impromptu massage lessons, or turning up the speakers to max in their room so the whole hall can chorus "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights" together.

...Y'know, I miss college sometimes.

So I love the idea of the city. The rest of the universe I have some issues with, but it's not a make-it or break-it deal. Ultimately, though, what always gets me about a show is the characters, and SGA's don't disappoint.

I have to admit, for a while I wasn't seeing the McKay-Sheppard friendship. At the very beginning of the show, it's there and strong, but then it fades out, and while there's moments they're buddy-buddy, it wasn't a consistent thing, enough for me to think that most of their relationship was fanon, fans reading more into it than really was there.

And then third season got going, and it goes from being present again, to being noticeable, to being pretty much impossible to ignore. And I love it, I gotta say. I don't even know what their relationship is...teammates, obviously, and friends, but beyond that..."best friends" seems almost too pat; "brothers"...maybe too defined. More than anything they simply come across as two guys who enjoy hanging out together. Which doesn't seem like much, except with these two guys, they've maybe never had anyone else enjoy hanging out with them, or have enjoyed someone else's company like this.

McKay's obviously a social misfit who doesn't get along with people and doesn't usually care to, but he's lonely all the same. And he's very insecure, has a hard time believing anyone would really want to spend time with him for any reason except his brilliant scientific insights. But Sheppard is bored with too much science (even if he can understand more than he seems)...he just likes teasing Rodney, or geeking out with him about scifi, or testing ancient artifacts, or going whale watching, or playing wacky not-quite-simulation games, or apparently just listening to him rant (in his quarters, or on the phone back on Earth...) Which would probably come as a big surprise to McKay if he ever noticed it, though I'm not sure he totally does, because Sheppard is so...unobtrusive about it. He doesn't make a big deal about being McKay's friend, he's just there.

Sheppard, meanwhile, can make friends with anything - soldiers, scientists, random people on all sorts of worlds, ascended Ancients, Wraith, ancient cities - but he's not good at getting close to people. The thing about Sheppard is that the character comes across as pretty ordinary at first, standard stock flyboy with snappy attitude and a heroic streak. Then, the more you see of him, the more you realize that Sheppard is...weird. Deeply, deeply weird. He's...usually I'd say damaged or broken, but he doesn't exactly come across that way. I almost get the impression that he actually is in touch with his feelings, though he absolutely will not/cannot articulate them; how he can make friends so easily and yet I bet people get turned off when they get to know him better, because he just will not communicate...and not just not talking about his feelings; he's not physically demonstrative, either.

But McKay doesn't care - doesn't notice, really, because he's so bad at communicating himself. Rodney wears his heart on his sleeve, but he's embarrassed about it, quick to anger and and quicker to lord his genius over anyone, but his ego fails him in anything not regarding his IQ. He can make himself say he's sorry but he has a hard time accepting forgiveness; and an even worse time accepting thanks ("Tao of Rodney", he's like an unmasked superhero, saving people and running away to preserve his secret identity, even though his cover's already blown.) Sheppard's comfortable to be around, because he doesn't often bring up such uncomfortable things. And Sheppard must find McKay comfortable to be around for just the same reasons.

I almost wonder if Sheppard never intended to become friends with McKay. I've read a couple fics with the fanon that post-Afghanistan Sheppard deliberately avoided getting close to anyone, so he wouldn't ever lose anyone again; that works with him flying copters in Antarctica. If that's the case, then maybe he started hanging out with McKay because he thought Rodney was too prickly and annoying to actually become friends with. Of course the trouble with this plan is that while McKay can be quite unlikable, he's eminently lovable, and Sheppard ended up with a best friend before he could help it...

--I gotta admit, while I am favorite-charactering McKay something fierce, my adoration for Sheppard increases steadily. He's got a lot more going on than is readily apparent, much of it almost impossible to read but fascinating to try. (My appreciation for the actor is rising, too. Joe Flanigan can come across like he's not paying attention, but the more I watch it the more I think he's actually giving a more subtle performance than is standard for scifi TV. Sheppard's usually so terrifically low-key that you can miss it, but the way JF plays him when emotionally stressed, the changes of voice tone and body language and eye contact, are so consistent that they have to be acting choices. And also quite delicious to tune into. Mmmm. Also, his eyes. Double mmmmm. Tawny hazel! Is it just me or are they downright yellow in some lights?)

(The one problem with Sheppard is that I cannot call him "John". Why why whyyyyy did they have to give him the same name as one point six million other characters? He could've been Jase. Or Jeff. Or anything except John, to keep him distinct from Sheridan, Crichton, Kent, Stewart, J'onnz, Winchester, etc, etc...)

(This is okay, though, because Rodney obviously has the same trouble, seeing as he's called Sheppard "John" a grand total of once in three years (and yes, you could hear my squee at that from Mars). I am convinced that sometime in their first year at Atlantis, McKay was talking with Weir, and she was like, "So John was telling me what the natives of P62--"

And Rodney is all, "Wait, who?"

"John."

"John who? That annoying guy in Computer Systems, or that other annoying guy in Planetary Tectonics--"

"Your team leader John."

"No, Sheppard's my team leader."

"Yes, Rodney. John Sheppard. His first name's John."

"...Really? Huh. I thought it was 'Major'...")

Where was I? Oh, yeah, that McKay & Sheppard are the cutest BFF zomg!!1! Or whatever they are. Adorable, at any rate. I like them the best when they're just having fun together, a la "Echoes" - though displaying their habit of saving each other's lives is of course killer cute. ("Doppelganger" = <333, as naye discussed in delightful detail)

I do admit, though, that I have a lot of trouble slashing them. Partly because while Sheppard I can see as bi- (I still see him as mostly uninterested, but if either sex throws themselves at him, and if it's easier to go along with it than push it away, well, what are you gonna do? At least if you're as lazy as Sheppard), I have a hard time seeing McKay as anything but heterosexual, because he does wear his heart on his sleeve, and it's so painfully obvious when he's attracted to a woman that I don't see how he could hide a crush on a guy. Also, their friendship thing is so peculiar and unexpected and fun anyway that I don't need the slash to spice it up. And it makes sense to me quite apart from any kind of physical attraction.

Of course, going on about the Sheppard-McKay like this is neglecting the rest of the team! While I don't love them nearly as much, that's not to say I don't love them. I mean, Ronon is both bad-ass and hysterical, the love is pretty much unavoidable. And his relationship with Teyla is fast rising on my (short) list of favorite platonic male-female friendships. The way they fight and tease, and protect and work together to protect, and bond over their crazy Terran teammates, is very awww. I also like that Teyla and Sheppard are keeping it platonic - that Teyla's nightmare is that their friendship would be misinterpreted! And Ronon and Sheppard are a lot of fun. Sheppard's generally non-competitive nature comes in handy with being friends with Ronon as well as with McKay...

And Ronon & Rodney is just love love love. Ronon seems to have appointed himself unofficial McKay bodyguard, and from very early on he doesn't mind McKay; he's more amused than insulted by him, and seems to genuinely respect his abilities. gnine pointed out that Ronon's lover was a doctor, educated and intelligent, not a fighter - Ronon is used to protecting those smaller and smarter than him. I wonder, too, if maybe Ronon respects Rodney a little because Rodney doesn't back down, and isn't afraid of him - wary of his strength, when Ronon towers over him; but Rodney's not one to be intimidated by mere physical prowess and Ronon might respect that. Of course with Ronon you can never tell. But he's definitely fond of McKay.

I still want more with McKay and Teyla, that's the one place the show is really letting me down. Really wish one of Weir's conversations in "Tao of Rodney" had been with Teyla instead. I have no idea what their dynamic is - they care about one another as loyal teammates, but that's all I know.

The total team dynamics are lovely fun, of course. They really have the family thing down: four siblings, Teyla as the eldest sister riding herd, taking teasing and giving it back; Ronon as the little brother bigger and stronger than any of them; and McKay and Sheppard as the bickering middle brothers - I read McKay as the over-achieving oldest and Sheppard is such a middle child. For all he's technically the boss of them (very technically. Sheppard doesn't suffer from the burden of command so much as the burden of "advising his team on what would be the best idea now, maybe, unless they've got something better in mind." Makes sense that he rather enjoys that freedom, since his command was thrust on him unexpectedly; as a major taking over a crucial operation in an unexpected war, completely cut off from the regular chain of command - small wonder that he picked a team he could relax around, rather than have to order to do anything.)

I'm also curious about the newcomers to the scene. Kaylee~!! Once a Wraith, now a doc! (I'm happy with her as long as I make myself forget how she got the job. Carson!! *sniff*) And Sam Carter...I'm taking a wait-and-see with her. I always had this problem with Carter on SG-1, that she's one of the few chars I actually like better in practice than in theory. In theory, Carter's a deus ex machina one step away from Mary-Suism, far too unflawed. In practice, I kinda really love Amanda Tapping for no particular reason, so I always found Carter herself very difficult to dislike. The problem as I see it is that SGA already has a deus ex McKay-china (with lots of adorable flaws) and I'm not sure how they're going to interface; don't want Carter stealing McKay's thunder! Also it makes me sad that Carter's separated from her own team. On the other hand, that means she can keep the distance a leader must always keep, while not seeming too lonely (the trouble with Weir was that she always was torn between being part of the family, and leading it; she couldn't get too close to them, even when Teyla wished they could, and that made Weir an awkward char to balance.)

Anyway, so far I've liked how they've handled Carter, and probably prefer her to Weir (never really clicked with Weir). I don't know if I entirely trust the writers - SG-1 burned me a few times, and SGA's track record with female chars is none too solid - but so far 4th season is shaping up to be awesome...I picked a good time to sign on. Just hope it keeps it up!

(I do have individual ep commentaries as relayed to naye; might post those later, for now I need to read fic sleep. Considering I'm not ficcing for this fandom it worries me how many words I'm churning out for it...!)

Comments

[naye]

Heeheeheeee~! ♥

This post was INCREDIBLE fun to read - your squee is so eloquent! And you know I love your take on the characters. The mapping out of the family dynamics, especially, is so very perfect. ♥

Rodney and John (I've learned how to use his first name!) are... accidental best friends; brothers from different families. It's a relationship that hits all my friendship buttons rather more subtly than, say, Ban and Ginji, but hits them hard.

Sheppard = weird. Yep! Very interesting points you were making there. (And Rodney, the ultimate social misfit, having more interesting relationships on Atlantis than even John!)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this season will bring some Rodney-Teyla interaction - like you, it's something I've been missing. And I'm also hoping they'll keep up the good work regarding Carter and her place on Atlantis... I understand your fears that it could so easily go wrong, but - so far they've done a great job!

Also? The sparkly squee is adorable! ^____^

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

And by eloquent you mean "incredibly long-winded", no? ^___^ But it's fun! They are most entertaining chars and relationships to analyze...in all their unsocial misfittery and general weirdness.

So very curious how the rest of the season will go! (...and that we get another season after that *crosses fingers & toes*) Really am hoping for Rodney-Teyla-ing, but any team interaction is good team interaction!

[leo-1978.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with just about everything you said. I can more easily slash McKay with Ronon than with Sheppard but that is just me. I too would like to see more McKay and Teyla interaction. The few times they have shared screen time together she comes off as a older sister which might make Rodney uneasy because he is used to being an older sibling.
When the series first debuted I was one of the haters(Not afraid to admit it). I do like it now. I really hated the idea of Weir. She was just a cheap female version of Daniel Jackson. I liked Jessica Stein better in the role than Torri H. I never really connected to her for that reason.
I thought and still think that if a Civilian was to be given control of either the SGC or Atlantis it should be Daniel Jackson. Why bring in an outsider with no knowledge of how to run things. Yes I get the political reasons that she was brought in basically as a stooge for Kinsey, but why give her control of the Atlantis mission. That never made any sense to me.
Why are they now giving the military control over Atlantis? Is not a civilian head the whole point of Atlantis? If they were going to do this even as a temporary measure why wouldn't Caldwell or Sheppard be in charge? Once again the writers are showing their love of Super-Sam.
SG1 burned me too. I really think the series should have ended with the defeat of Anubis. The whole Ori storyline bugged me. They tragically under-used Daniel and over-used Carter. Suddenly she knew everything! Let's not forget the writers giving her credit for almost all of Daniel's work. Don't even get me started with the whole Sam/Jack thing. UGH!
Sorry to make this into a rant about SG1. I really just wanted to say that I agreed with your comments on Atlantis.
LEO

[naye]

The reason (in the show's universe) to put Sam in charge was going to get explained at least a little in Reunion, but that part ended cut for time. Check out Joe Mallozzi's blog post here for some missing dialogue. I felt that it helped explain the issue, and wish it could have stayed in the episode.

Also, I'm not xparrot, but I think it's probably a good idea to assume that not everyone who watches SGA has seen all of SG-1 - even if they know the show, some people dropped it after a couple of seasons, and others tuned in pretty late. In both cases, things like referring to "Jessica Stein" can be really confusing...

[leo-1978.livejournal.com]

Again I still say that it was unnecessary to bring in Carter in the first place. Was Torri H. fired or let go for some reason. Was it her choice to leave? Probably not from what I have heard.
I think the producers just changes things because they can and not because it furthers the story line any.
The dialogue that you are referring to did help clarify some things for me. The writers think that we are idiots. Sam Carter has practically no field command experience. I have to assume that she was such a bad commander that they made Mitchell a co-commander rather than promote her to full bird colonel. She has consistently show both bad judgement calls (Replicator-Carter amoung others) and lack of experience lead to disasters that would have been prevented had another commander been involved.
I can only hope that she stays a background character and that the series does not devolve into the Sam Carter show.
LEO

[naye]

Okay. You obviously have issues with the show (or at least with Sam Carter). That's fine - everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't agree with you, but I'm not going to argue any of this with you, especially not here in xparrot's LJ, and definitely not in a post about all the things about the show that make her happy.

If you want more information regarding the reasons behind cast changes and the like, I would recommend you to read the interviews that are up on Gateworld.net, if you haven't done so already.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

*hugs* s'okay, I'm used to a bit of dissent (hey, did you see the arguments on my Lex-nalysis posts!) And most fen who were into SG-1 from the beginning do feel a bit burned...so...

Gotta read some of those interviews! Even if I don't always trust the writers, I am fascinated by 'em XD

[naye]

*hugs* Obviously, SV is good for many things! ^_^

The Gateworld interviews can be seriously spoilery, though. Even just going to their front page can be... an interesting experience. But, obviously, the interview with Torri about Weir leaving had some interesting insights into her take on the situation. And the S3 interviews with David Hewlett and Paul McGillion both offered a lot of thoughts on Sunday which I found kind of helpful in processing the whole thing. (Though sometimes I forget what I read on Gateworld, and what's on the DVD specials!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

As far as Carter's command experience goes, while I haven't seen the end of SG-1, I'm thinking her lack of a promotion is more due to her age than her screwing up anywhere (not that she hasn't screwed up, but compared to everyone else in the SG 'verse...I'm pretty sure most of the military chars should've been court martialed by now. Several times over!) As far as I understand it, Carter's just about the age she should be promoted to colonel (maybe a little young, even?) and should be taking on the responsibilities of greater command. ...besides, I never really saw Weir as a great leader, especially not for something as problematic as the Atlantis mission, so...

From the upcoming SGA ep summaries I've heard, Carter's not getting any major episodes; I thought she was handled well in "Doppelganger", not getting a nightmare of her own. She's a developed character already and doesn't need as much exploration...at this point I don't see the show becoming the Carter Hour. I sympathize with your lack of faith in the writers, but...well, I'm just gonna keep my hopes up for now! It helps that I didn't ever really like Weir much, like I said, so I don't miss her and am curious what they'll do...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hee - Ronon/McKay would be awful sweet, really; I might try it sometime. I also love McKay & Zelenka but not really as slash; as friends, however, they're cute and hysterical. Also interesting point about Rodney being uncomfortable with being "demoted" to younger brother around Teyla. I could see that...

I've only seen the first 4 seasons of SG-1 and eps here and there of later seasons, so I don't know much about Anubis, the Ori, or...Jessica Stein? (I heard Weir was in SG-1 - a different actress, I'm guessing?) The Sam/Jack thing did drive me nuts; everything else...well, the show went pretty crack-tastic later, from what I've heard; I know a lot of people enjoyed it for that, and I'm planning to watch it myself, but I will have to put my fannish feelings for early SG-1 aside to get the most out of it, I think!

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

Yay! Glad you're caught up. :) Always enjoy reading your commentary, and I like your analysis of the team as four siblings - that's how I like to see them too. :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm less glad I caught up - no more to watch! *whimper*

If marrying and living happily ever after is the ultimate expression of a slash relationship, then family-by-choice is the ultimate of a gen relationship (really, both are about making families, even if the route is different...) And SGA fits onto a sibling interpretation so delightfully well!

[huabot.livejournal.com]

::also sparkles:: SGA! Analysis! Relationship round-up! Team! Sometimes I think I like reading fan commentary more than fan fiction for this series. Please do post the episode commentaries!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The meta commentarying for this series is way too much fun, really. Yay for the team!

My 'ep commentaries' are mostly disjointed squee, but will see about getting 'em up, because, yeah...it's fun! XD

[whitelighter]

I have absolutely nothing constructive to say to this.

Instead, please take this squee: EEEEEE ATLANTIS IS SO AWESOME AND GEN AND I LOVE IT AND McKAY AND MORE EEEEEEEEEEE! ♥

:D

By the way, your analysis is awesome and what did you think of Duet? That was the episode that got me back into the show. I couldn't stop laughing. XD

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heeee~! *squees with you!* *loudly!*

"Duet" amused me much, though I had some reservations (I got issues with SGA's handling of female chars, and that ep especially was a sticking point.) OTOH, boy-on-boy kissing! And David Hewlett is love XDD

[sholio]

I don't really have anything insightful to add, but I can read meta about Sheppard and McKay's friendship and the team's family vibe until the cows come home. *g*

Odd as it sounds, I think one of the things I love most about the Sheppard-McKay relationship is that it's so incredibly hard to define. It's brotherly, but without a lot of the issues of jealousy and hierarchy that tend to go along with siblinghood. They have all the hallmarks of being BFFs and yet would probably be shocked and perhaps horrified to be described that way. There is a definite aspect of rivalry to it (especially when dealing with Elizabeth) but they aren't really rivals because their individual roles in the Atlantis hierarchy are cooperative, not competitive. There is just nothing else that's quite like them on TV.

So what happens is they trip all my fan-kinks at once! I love combative friendships with an element of rivalry or enemy-hood underneath; I love brothers, especially slightly wary ones; I have a big soft spot for unabashed BFFs. And they're all of them at once. Quite plainly willing to die for each other (and in several episodes, they're even looking out for each other's emotional well-being also -- e.g. "McKay & Mrs. Miller") but they'd rather DIE than admit affection for each other. And they're each of them perfectly adorable in their own right, relationship notwithstanding. The combination is pretty much guaranteed to KILL ME DEAD. XD

(I loved your little snippet of dialogue about John's first name, though...! "I thought it was Major." Heeee~!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(sorry for the delayed response! I've been distracted of late...)

I think the difficulty of defining Sheppard & McKay's relationship is totally what makes it so appealing! One is drawn to trying to figure it out. It's interesting that they can argue (well, bicker and tease and poke, anyway; rarely is it mature enough to be called 'argument') but they're not truly competitive - mostly because Sheppard's not a competitive personality; he does what he does but doesn't seem overly bothered when someone can do it better than him.

What maybe gets me about them the most is just how much fun they have together - they genuinely enjoy hanging out together, and are so comfortable in each other's company, quite apart from the job and life-saving they do. Sheppard obviously finds McKay-baiting one of the top five most entertaining sports in the Pegasus galaxy, and McKay's actually learned that it's just a game ("Oh, it's the kidding.") and will give it back in the same spirit, rather than really meaning it. It's very hee and aww!

...of course the mutual life-saving habit doesn't hurt the fangirling none, either ^^

(btw, I've been reading your fic - among copious others; there is so much gen h/c in this fandom that I'm overwhelmed, don't know what to read first - but what I have read of yours - the shorter ones, mostly, starting on the long stories now - I've really loved. You're of course about the best writer I've found in this fandom, and I love your take on the guys. I know I've left you some comments but can't remember for what stories, so I'll just say now that "Plumber's Helper" is adorable and funny and works great to fill in that missing space. And "The Color of Stone" was a gorgeous bit of angst, Sheppard telling Ronon to remember not to blame himself was all kinds of fantastic in a deliciously gut-punching way, and so very, very Sheppard. And "Blind Justice" was also wonderfully Sheppard (oh the angst!), and also oh, oh, Rodney, because I can see him like that, he doesn't hide his guilt much better than he hides any other emotions, and it's amazing he's lasted this long without breaking under it...

--so, yep, it took me long enough but I'm very glad to have gotten into this fandom, and not the least of which because it means I can read your fic! ^_^)

[sholio]

I did get your other feedback ... as I'm sure you'll become abundantly aware, I really suck at replying to feedback, but I'm quite happy that you're liking my stories! It's very happy-making to be involved in the same fandom(s) again, at least for the time being.

What maybe gets me about them the most is just how much fun they have together - they genuinely enjoy hanging out together, and are so comfortable in each other's company, quite apart from the job and life-saving they do.

Oh yes ... some of my fandom friends think that they'd drift apart if they were sent back to Earth for good, but I really don't think so, because they so obviously enjoy each other's company, and they're so wonderfully comfortable together. I think they've achieved a depth of friendship that isn't let go easily.

And, as you point out, despite their bickering, there is very little actual tension or conflict between them. I've done a bit of meta-ing in the past comparing the SGA team to the SG1 team, and one of the big differences between them (as I see it) is that with SG1, Jack and Daniel were genuinely at odds a lot of the time. Sheppard and McKay just aren't -- they certainly COULD be (the military vs. civilian divide, the American vs. Canadian outlook on various issues) but they just don't relate to each other that way. "Adrift" was the first time since Trinity that they've had an actual, genuine conflict between them, and it didn't take them long to apologize and get back to their normal state of friendly antagonism.