SGA 5x16: Brainstorm

[xparrot]

*yawns, waves* I had a bad cold that put me mostly out of commission, feel like I've been living in a hole for the last week. Hi, everybody! Did you miss me?

Anyway. New SGA. Warnings for massive oversensitivity. Yes, I know it's just a silly TV show. And I know some folks enjoyed this ep - I envy you, I really wanted to - so please don't read if you're not in the mood for squee-harshing.

I actually didn't mind the McKeller terribly much in this episode.* That was because I didn't see it, because it's hard to have McKeller without McKay. And I didn't see much of Rodney McKay. The beginning maybe, yeah, okay, he's awkward with women, he's got an ego, he doesn't get along with his colleagues, that's Rodney.

But then there's an emergency, a planet-threatening danger, confused and bickering scientists struggling far out of their depths - and where the heck was Dr. Rodney McKay, Head of Science & Research on Atlantis, who has spent five years taking charge and ordering around scientists and military personnel in desperate life-or-death situations, as recently as a couple weeks ago in "Prodigal"? He appeared for maybe thirty seconds near the end, but was so timid and ineffectual the rest of the time that he was unrecognizable. For that matter, where the heck was Dr. Rodney McKay, unrepentant asshole of "Forty-Eight Hours", who maybe couldn't define "humble" but knew his physics and wouldn't back down even to hot blonde geniuses? I don't think that Rodney would've even let the damn device get turned on, he'd have kicked up such a fuss. If this is the "kinder and gentler Rodney McKay" - swap him back for the old model, stat. Atlantis doesn't need kind & gentle nearly as much as she needs confident, commanding competence.

Okay, I know it was supposed to be a comedy ep, I just wish Gero would stop writing serious jeopardy into his comedy eps, because it makes the characters all look like insensitive boobs, when they deal with life-and-death by becoming jerkish idiots. That includes every physicist in the episode.

* This doesn't mean I liked the McKeller. I didn't get a feeling that she respects Rodney in the slightest, and I still don't understand what she sees in him. I mean, I see a lot to love in Rodney, but I have no idea what Keller does. Is it the blue eyes? How fast he talks? Was she a Traders fan with a thing for Grant Jansky? But the 'shipping didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, because really, I don't see how this can possibly be a viable relationship. There's nothing there. Keller is bored by physics, we know how Rodney feels about medical science, and we've yet to see them talk about anything else. They're physically attracted to one another to some extent (though Rodney doesn't seem to notice her more often than not) but that's it. It's a high school crush and if they both think this is love, based on so little - yeah, they don't have a chance.

Also, why the heck couldn't the other scientist go rescue Keller at the end? Or Bill Nye, who had expressed interest in her before? It's not like Rodney's massive brain was much use in axing down a door. Very confused there.

utopiantrunks has been showing us Big Bang Theory, and I gotta say, it's a problem when a CBS sitcom has not only stronger characters and more believable relationships (I like the geek/girl 'ship of BBT), but also better technobabble. (Seriously, where was the pseudo-science? If Rodney's going to be with his intellectual brethren, I want at least one verbal tangent into the incomprehensible, when everyone around him will actually understand what he's saying!)

Comments

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I just don't see how this pairing could even work. They get on the plane and she starts complaining. Don't do this, don't do that, don't think this, behave! And he meekly nods and accepts her reprimands. Does she love McKay or her idea of McKay? The real one or the boy she got to know during The Shrine? Because all I saw was her trying to remake Rodney into a perfect boyfriend. On their very first date!

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

I mean, I see a lot to love in Rodney, but I have no idea what Keller does.
She sees a guy who's kind of cute, needs to be rescued and made a declaration of love towards her that made her feel all mushy inside.

That's really all I got, because I don't see it either. She was so passive around Rodney except for the end when she got him to shut up by offering sex. Where was the Keller that seemed to actually find Rodney adorable (from Trio)?

Not that I mind that the way they showed it to us makes it to see that this will end exactly like Rodney and Katie because it's based on false expectations and imagined feelings.

I didn't mind him going for Jennifer with the axe, because he would have done the same for any of his friends.

The writing of their relationship was just so off. The date that never felt like a date and then the declaration of love that was just another "telling" instead of showing and was in complete contrast to how she behaved during the date, where I really didn't feel the love.

[(Anonymous)]

The only problem is the writers think it's viable and they won't let it end. Maybe if there were more shows to come, but they finished filming at least a month or two ago. Maybe if they had a chance to reflect, or maybe to hear what the fans are seeing so clearly and articulating so well about the nonexistant romantic relationship, they could fix it or drop it. However, they are so in love with Jewel Staite and the idea of the geek getting the beautiful blonde that they didn't see that that didn't write it believably. When she was nominated for that award, that just reinforced their point of view.

Let me just say, that I think the actress probably is good and I know she is popular for previous work she's done. It's the character of Keller and the story that was written for Keller and Rodney that fails.

Most importantly of all, the writers don't seem to understand that the strength of the show is the team relationship and especially the relationship between Rodney and John (with or without the slash McShep view.) Any permanent outside romantic attachments for any of the team would have had to have been slowly nurtured with a great deal of skill. Which they didn't do, but they think they did.Even then I'm not sure I would like it. Attaching Vala to Daniel ruined the last year of SG-1 for me. (Actually, that's another example of the writers becoming enamored of a character and then trying to put together two characters that have nothing in common.)

I'm not saying it very well, but for me the Stargate shows have been about the teams and the friendship (and, well, beating the bad guys and saving the world!)

Mary

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

and where the heck was Dr. Rodney McKay, Head of Science & Research on Atlantis, who has spent five years taking charge and ordering around scientists and military personnel in desperate life-or-death situations, as recently as a couple weeks ago in "Prodigal"?

I thought of it as being that phenomena whereby normally competent, successful adults let older cousins bully them at family gatherings, or their parents belittle them, or whatever... it's like 25 years of life goes away.

Or, at least, that's my explanation.

- Helen

[ariadne83]

I have to say, my husband is a bit like Rodney - with the snarky, crankiness and the science-babble; I have a social sciences background, which he didn't regard as "real" science until he met me. He literally used to make people cry when he picked their stupidness apart. He's mellowed a little since we've been together, but those kinds of character traits don't go away - in fact, they sometimes get worse when the pressure goes on, and you have to be tough enough not to take it personally. I have every reason to relate to McKeller, but I don't, which makes me think the writing really is just that bad. Trying to school Rodney on how to act around his own peers is just cringe-worthy; even if she might've been right, she doesn't know his world or these people, so it's Rodney's call and, incidentally, his career; if he screws up it's all on him, so it should be his decision.

I could buy her being in love with the way his mind works, if she didn't roll her eyes or smirk every time he demonstrated it. I do think she appreciates it when he's trying to be sweet, but I sure hope there's more than that or they're doomed. Try the stress of packing up to move houses (or, in their case, galaxies) with someone if you only like them when they're nice and see how far it gets you. Try dealing with them when they've had no sleep because they're finishing a project and they're snappy and tired, and you know all that so you just have to roll with the punches and wait for the un-fun stuff to be over - because I can guarantee that if you try to call them out for it when they're already under all that stress, you're going to end up looking like the asshole.

Short version? Dating Rodney would be a challenge, but it's certainly not an impossible one and I resent TPTB for implying otherwise.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

That's how I tried to spin it in my head, too, but it doesn't work. It's not like early-Rodney ever let himself be belittled - in "48 Hours" Rodney doesn't back down from Sam or anything. He's become *more* receptive to listening to others over the years on Atlantis, not less. So if he reverted, it should've been back to total asshole mode. I'd have loved to see him steamroll over the other scientists, and for Keller to have to remind him that he might be able to use their help. Instead Rodney was just a hapless member of the crowd for much of the ep, no better at handling a crisis than any other scientist there, his only advantage being that he knew more.

The problem is the show refuses to acknowledge anymore that there *is* a positive side to Rodney's attitude, that it actually can come in handy. In "Hot Zone" Rodney's not polite, but he's wildly competent at science and managing a crowd of scared people. I miss that Rodney.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the first date thing got to me too - she's nagging him like this from the beginning, she *says* she enjoys being with him but other than making out with him at the end, she doesn't act like it...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

That's really all I got, because I don't see it either. She was so passive around Rodney except for the end when she got him to shut up by offering sex. Where was the Keller that seemed to actually find Rodney adorable (from Trio)?

Yeah, except for the end, where she comes across as physically attracted to him (for all that the show/Gero constantly has to stress that he's generally unattractive and it's almost unbelievable that *anyone* would ever want to have sex with him, which is just, umm, have they seen David Hewlett?) - otherwise, for all Keller claims to like being with him, I didn't see it. They don't have fun together, the science he loves bores her, she's embarrassed by him, he's too awkward around her to snark back like he does with John.

But yeah, I didn't mind it, because basically the show is showing, if not telling, that this will never work.

I didn't mind him going for Jennifer with the axe, because he would have done the same for any of his friends.

I didn't mind Rodney doing it, I just didn't get why it had to be him and no one else. Couldn't any of them have prioritized? But they wanted Rodney to be the one to give her CPR, so they gave absolutely no pretext for him to go, except that the other two guys were stupid chickens.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I admit to fearing that in the finale Rodney's going to propose to Keller and she's going to accept. The relationship's been so haphazard already that the writers probably wouldn't even see it as fast. Oh well - I don't care what they tell us, it's not going to happen. Or if it does, it's not going to end happily. I feel sorry for the characters, but oh well - in 4 more eps they're ours, and we'll do better by them!

I'm not saying it very well, but for me the Stargate shows have been about the teams and the friendship (and, well, beating the bad guys and saving the world!)

*nods emphatically* Absolutely. I was completely happy with no romance in the show but background pairings and occasional UST hints (and I'd've been just as content without those!) The minimum role of romance has always been one of the draws of the SG verse for me, and I'm sad to lose that...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

He's mellowed a little since we've been together, but those kinds of character traits don't go away - in fact, they sometimes get worse when the pressure goes on, and you have to be tough enough not to take it personally.

I think one of the things that drives me nuts is that the show didn't acknowledge that there are some advantages to this attitude problem - that Rodney's obnoxious confidence is one of the reasons he can survive through a crisis. It doesn't make him easy to get along with, but it does make him very useful on Atlantis. Keller trying to mediate with his peers is one thing - it's awful rude on a first date, but whatever - but when she tried to stop him when he wanted the scientist not to turn the thing on, when she made him stop and be polite, that was the wrong call. She screwed them all there; she should've backed Rodney up, if she knew him well enough to know that wasn't just him being egotistical, that was a legitimate concern (and Rodney telegraphs the difference between the two broadly enough anyone who knows him should be able to see it, let alone someone in love with him!) But she didn't, and of course the show's never going to say that the lovely Keller was dead wrong.

I could buy her being in love with the way his mind works, if she didn't roll her eyes or smirk every time he demonstrated it.

Yes! Doesn't help that the time she seemed most interested in him was when he had a brain parasite destroying his mind. Sheppard was freaked out by Shrine-Rodney and wanting the real one back, but while Keller felt sorry for him and didn't want him to die, I didn't get the feeling that she was missing the real Rodney.

Dating Rodney would be a challenge, but it's certainly not an impossible one and I resent TPTB for implying otherwise.

Oh yeah. I hate the way that they present Rodney as entirely unattractive, except for his squishy moments - like that's the only thing any woman would ever like about him. News flash, SGA TPTB - some of us are actually really turned on by competent brilliance and snark and hell, arrogance, too!

I loved it, but here's why!

[philexos.livejournal.com]

Gero wrote a McShep episode, then somebody who can tell him what to do told him to plug a woman into the John part and it was a go. Keller has never 'been' more John-like than in this episode. Plug John 'back' in, and you have a total and complete winner. Trust me, do the Jenn/John switch. It's so easy. :)

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

I didn't mind Rodney doing it, I just didn't get why it had to be him and no one else.
Actually, at that point, since they were cut off from security, I think there were only some other scientists available. Rodney was by far the one most used to dangerous, life-threatening situations. In his place, I wouldn't have trusted them either to do anything in their power to save her. (I'm picturing one wrong hit with the axe here and hobbling around and crying about a hurt wrist or something. Can you imagine Tunney going on if he'd accidentally hurt himself, maybe even semi-severely?) So I do see why Rodney had this as his highest priority in the moment (and he did turn out to be right that the others managed to implement his idea).

for all Keller claims to like being with him, I didn't see it. They don't have fun together, the science he loves bores her, she's embarrassed by him, he's too awkward around her to snark back like he does with John.
And I really, really don't get that none of the writers noticed this about the episode. They've made this their story arc of the year. Did they think that Keller telling Ronon that she was interested in someone else would be all that's necessary to get every viewer fully on board with the idea? I understand that they cannot put McKeller in every episode, but they did bend their own rules by spending more time on this than any other personal storyline. And on what? Instead of slowly developing their feelings they gave us the completely stupid "triangle", which actually made it even more necessary to hide Keller's feelings from the audience so that we could be all "Oooh, who will she choose?", except for the part that their treatment of Ronon versus Rodney in the past has made this one pretty much a no-brainer.

I'm waiting for someone to rewrite this episode with John instead of Jennifer and with the same end, showing how it can be done, although that might not be easy, because the whole plot depends so much on Jennifer being unsupportive (making him not read the non-disclosure agreement, stopping him when he wants to prevent them from starting the machine).

And the worst thing is that in the end they not only hurt their precious McKeller, but Jennifer's character. So many people complain rightfully about her behavior, but especially in the scene where she tells Rodney to shut up, when he wants to save their lives, I couldn't help feeling that it was completely OOC of her not to agree with him. She's been on Atlantis for two years now. She should have more experience with how science can go very, very wrong than most of the scientists in the room, plus she knows Rodney. Her behavior in that scene makes no sense at all.

Again, the good thing about all of this is that it makes a future break-up just more plausible. I hope the writers keep this up (or not show them at all). Makes it so much easier for us to fix things after it's over.

Re: I loved it, but here's why!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heh - I've seen other people say that, but I admit I can't see it myself. Partly because of Rodney's reactions - one of the things that gets me about the McKeller is the imbalance. When John makes fun of him, Rodney snarks right back, but when Keller needles him Rodney just simpers and bends to it; he doesn't give back what he gets.

Also, when Rodney stood up and tried to stop Tunney during the presentation, I am convinced John would've realized that it was more than Rodney's ego making a fool out of him; he would've recognized that Rodney was seriously worried, that there was real cause for concern, and he would've backed Rodney up instead of shutting him up.

But then they would've just avoided the whole mess, so it's lucky for the script that John didn't go! XP

[e313.livejournal.com]

just watched the ep (and wanted2c what the community's thoughts were on it; bn link-hopping for a while so not sure how i got here but) i wanted2say how, from all i've read, i agree with u guys the most!
our Rodney McKay, would have kicked butts and gone into name calling and threw everyone out and solved that problem no problem cuz he CAN multitask: yep, he can save them all and call them incompetent, arrogant, ignorant wannabes at the same time! now, if Keller likes that McKay, c can stay, if not...
dude, i don't get it. c's bn living on Atlantis how long now? when McKay says sm is a bad idea u don't tell him2sit down and shut up cuz he's not being humble and nice but embarassing in the social setting of your first date. esp when that social setting happens2b the one it was, kay? u look around for the closest gun and u back him up cuz he's right! he's almost always right!
can't someone fic the ep with John there instead? though it'd probably b a reeeally short crack fic: he'd have listened and the stupid experiment would never have happened in the first place.

[e313.livejournal.com]

ps the end scared the hell out of me. go into the private sector??? and do what? Earth (well, as far as the private sector knows) doesn't even have space-travel!!! the technology is laughable! he's the head science guy of Atlantis! nothing can top that! and not just that! he's...a season back he was stealing zpm's from the Asuran's homeworld!!! he's not just the science guy. not anymore. and, if the romance with Keller leads2a 'character development' that makes him a 'civilian' on a backwater rock (sorry Earth) then... grrrrr, damit!

[e313.livejournal.com]

at least Vala was IN the team, and c knew who Daniel was; instead of Keller, who... i'm not persuaded at all that what c thinks c sees and wants is the real McKay. which makes this what? 200 times worse?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that at least Vala was in the team. I actually kind of liked the character with the growth and changes that she went through. But, for me, a little Vala went a long way. Sort of like Jennifer, she was pushed into things with characters that had started together and had years to develop relationships. Also, to justify her being there, she became Super!Vala, better at technology than Sam and more knowledgeable about the Goa'uld and the galaxy than Teal'c and Daniel. That and no romance may explain why Cameron didn't bother me.

Though I could see Daniel and Vala as teammates and even friends, I never found it believable that they would more. Thankfully, unlike Rodney and Jennifer, the writers never tried to push it too far, except in Unending (for which they "undid" it at the end.) I just loved Daniel and resented having to accept Vala constantly at his side. In a way, it took me out of, or distracted me from the story. This is why they should leave these romances out of Stargate shows. Just leave things really ambiguous, so we can ignore or deny it if we want.

Mary

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, Keller doesn't seem to know and appreciate who the real Rodney is. That does make it so much worse!!

Mary

[e313.livejournal.com]

i agree. u r right: they didn't fit.
i can't blame the characters though. i blame the writers. for some reason they're really really bad at the romance thing. the more sg1 or sga i watch the more i understand the slashers, though i definitely didn't start that way, but either the writers do it on purpose or they r better at describing friendships in dire circumstances or sm. it's ridiculous how easier it is2grasp daniel-jack and john-rodney as opposed2 daniel-vala and rodney-keller and, i assume, nobody on the writers stuff actually tries to give us slash. at this point they should just omit the clumsy attempts at romance and go for the sci-fi adventure!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know what was up with that ending. Hopefully they'll never speak of it again and I can pretend this ep never happened!

[autumn2525.livejournal.com]

The saving grace... John's reaction to Rodney and Keller. That beginning 40 seconds spoke more about the real SGA relationship (John/Rodney... doesn't matter if you see friends or slash it) than an entire episode and fake platitudes of love.

Hmph

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hah! Yes, those first 40 seconds...didn't make the episode worth it, but at least it wasn't a total loss. I do kind of love JFlan's amazing lips-sucked-in jealous!face...

[e313.livejournal.com]

*crosses fingers*

[pogrebin.livejournal.com]

WORD WORD WORD.

Rodney should be so over this shit. He should have been all 'been there, done that'. Using his panic in a directional way-- there were some great moments, Rodney saying (something to the effect of 'I'm Doctor Rodney McKay, improbable takes a few moments, impossible a few minutes', yes yes yes. But dude, I can't even believe that he SAT BACK DOWN after he was laughed at when they were about to turn the thing on. If he was written even remotely recognisably he'd have stayed staying, yelled, 'It's classified, asshole' and been on the cellphone to General Landry and shut Tunney down cold with his friends from the military. But of course, where would the comedy be, right?

Sigh.

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

BS was just that - a horrible waste of a precious slot for an episode. Keller was just a nagging, manipulative witch. Jeez, on the plane she's already nagging him, be nice, be humble and ends the same way. Then she shuts him up by bribing him with sex - on the first date in wet clothes on a plane. Sick! I don't want to see a cowed Rodney, bending to her complaints. I want a strong, bombastic, acerbic, confident Rodney ripping his colleagues and stopping that machine from being turned on. It ticked me off when she told him to sit down and shut up. How many times has he saved their collective butts on Atlantis? She doesn't trust him to know what he's doing? She doesn't stand up for him in front of his colleagues? Honestly, she doesn't know and love the real Rodney McKay at all. Please Gero, keep your middle school fantasies to yourself - TMI. Give me the real Rodney with John at his back snarking at him yet always on his six, trusting him if Rodney says danger. John and the team love and accept Rodney for who he is. Jennifer wants her idealized idea of Rodney. Even after he saves her, there is no chemistry, no electricity between the two. The kiss lacked passion and the actors, to me, seemed like they were going through the motions. There was no body language or expressions that made me believe they were truly in love. That is not even going into her being hypothermic and back from the dead yet popping up declaring her love, ala The Shrine, and kissing Rodney - no shivering or after effects. Blech! The whole telling rather than showing, the laziness of the writers was on display here. Please save me from McKeller. Can they break up already? Just give me back the team saving the galaxy, John and Rodney leading the way snarking the whole time but totally and always there for one another. I can't wait for the fanfic to fix this disaster.

[darkgloom.livejournal.com]

Agreed with everything. The whole episode was kind of wtf to me, even as someone who is neutral about McKeller (I even thought the beginning bits of the dynamic was cute) but then it went all haywire and I didn't recognise Rodney at all. It was just so... strange. I mean, Rodney was a bit more Rodney than when he was with Katie, but it was like they took away all the innate McKay-ness that we've come to love.

And let's not talk about the love declarations... I couldn't watch that at all. :/

Like you, I'm hoping they'll just forget about this ep so I can too.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Wow, we do totally share a brain. Awesome.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The Ronon thing makes no sense to me. She tells Ronon she likes someone else, and then...does nothing? She *knows* Rodney's into her; even if she were utterly oblivious to his fumbling attempts at getting close, he *told her he loved her*. So why the hell did she wait months, waiting for him to ask her out - when he already had asked her out in "The Shrine" - why didn't she make the first move? What the heck happened there? Especially since at the beginning of "Brainstorm" she actually does prod him into asking her, tells him outright she'd say yes - why didn't she do that months ago? I'm just confused there. Maybe if she had some reason to hesitate - she's uneasy about dating coworkers or something - but she never mentioned anything of the sort, didn't hesitate in this ep. So why did she before? Really, very weird...

...but yeah, weird does make it so easy for us to break them up later!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Rodney should be so over this shit. He should have been all 'been there, done that'. Using his panic in a directional way

Yes, yes, exactly! The couple moments the real Rodney showed up were awesome, but they didn't make up for the rest of it...

But of course, where would the comedy be, right?

I don't know why the writers - Gero especially - are so absolutely determined to make us laugh *at* Rodney instead of with him. I have a convoluted theory that while he's their confessed self-insert character, over time they've come to resent him, for being (as they see it) "like them," but successful - more heroic, more intelligent. So they write him getting the cute blonde, but at the same time they have to write him in the worst light otherwise, make it clear that it's sheer luck he got Keller, not that he actually deserves her.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I gotta admit, I didn't dislike Keller in this ep as much as I have other times. Well, that's the wrong way to say it - I didn't like her, but I couldn't blame that on the character, because I didn't like Rodney in the ep, either. And when I don't like Rodney McKay, one of my favorite characters ever, then there's something seriously wrong with the writing. So I can't blame Keller for this episode, only Gero...

Gah, I don't even know if they had chemistry, I've never noticed anything but awkwardness between them before, but I couldn't even watch the making out at the end of this, because I was so frustrated by the rest of the ep. At this point I'm almost looking forward to the show ending, so it'll be ours and the writers can't screw it up any worse...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

At least with Katie Brown, the show actually acknowledged that Rodney wasn't being himself with her, that it wasn't a relationship that really could work. With Keller, they seem to think they're writing a functional dynamic, writing a real Rodney, and that just doesn't work for me.

I don't think this ep will be entirely forgotten in later ones, sigh...but hopefully it won't come up in every one.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Now if only that brain could be shared with one or two of the show's writers...

[making-gray.livejournal.com]

Oh my God! I finally understand why this ep bothered me so much, McKeller-hate aside. It had no version of the Rodney we know and love despite all his faults! Thank you so much for pointing that out!

The only feasible explanation I can think of that doesn't get the writers a FAIL for OOCness is that this is who Rodney is around Keller--weak, hesitant, lacking confidence in himself. Basically a perversion of his true character. And that just highlights how wrong his relationship with Keller is. She makes him doubt himself, be less Rodney. And honestly, one of the reasons I love McShep so much is that even when John is yelling at Rodney or berating him, it usually ends up with Rodney being even more sarcastic or over the top, more Rodney-ish. It almost feels like the McKeller relationship is set up purposefully as a foil to the McShep relationship.

*goes off to grumble about wooden doors in a super sekrit bunker*

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

I don't get how Gero can go so off track when he admits McKay and Keller are his favorite characters to write for. I think that's what happens when you put the "male self insertion character" ,as someone put it, in as your alter ego with the Mary Sue girl of your dreams in your fantasy setting. The plot and characterizations suffer because you are trying to force the situation to the ending you want. It just feels so forced. Would have much rather spent the hour watching John and Ronon surfing and camping. The visual images alone would be worth it.

The making out - was horrible. So fake. Ack - brain bleach! I'm with you that soon the characters will be in the hands of "our" writers and so can create not only fix it fic but whole new glorious adventures. And I can get back to the one true pairing that has depth and feelings that we haven't been told about, but seen - McShep. I do look forward to that. I hope everyone hangs in and keeps writing.

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

Well said, I tend to rant because I hated this ep so much. But you said it well, basically she emasculates him. That bugged me so much, the nagging and him not arguing back and then her not sticking up for him in front of his colleagues. I miss the snark of Rodney and John this season and you just know John would have had his back.

Yes, the wooden door killed me. That and Keller just sitting there, not trying to save herself. Ack, must forget BS ever happened.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know whether to blame Rodney's OOC on Keller or the writing or both, but it ruined the episode for me. Rodney's sarcastic almighty arrogance is one of the things I like about the character, and to lose that...argh. A lot of times Rodney doesn't come across in the best light because he's on action missions, and while he's gotten better with a pistol he's still kind of out of his depth with physical stuff. But this was a physics conference, Rodney surrounded by his peers, who we've seen him dominate on Atlantis time and again, intellectually and in emergencies - but here he was totally hopeless and helpless. John's snarking makes Rodney rise to the occasion; Keller's, apparently, makes him fold...this is not good! Atlantis needs Rodney as commander, not meek follower...

The wooden door, heh. Maybe the whole bunker was actually made of plywood? Since they had forcefields anyway! (what was up with that? I'd think the invention of a working forcefield would be at least as impressive to the general public as a heat sink!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've got a theory about Gero, because yeah, I don't get it either. He used to write Rodney as awesome - s1's "Hot Zone" has the Rodney McKay I love; he's got moments of panic when faced with imminent death, but most of the time he's brilliant and determined and commanding, and keeps it together better than almost anyone. I loved him because as obnoxiously arrogant as he could be, Rodney actually was as smart as he thinks he is. But Gero apparently decided that Rodney wasn't funny enough if he was actually heroic, so his more recent eps are dedicated to proving Rodney might try sometimes but he's generally useless; he thinks he's smarter than he actually is, and anyway he can only apply those smarts if someone yells at him. Sigh! I miss the old Rodney a lot...

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

I miss him too. I miss him with Sheppard and the team! I just scratch my head that the "professionals" can get their own characters so wrong and off track - unrecognizable. And this is his favorite character???

Re: I loved it, but here's why!

[starwatcher]

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But then they would've just avoided the whole mess, so it's lucky for the script that John didn't go!

No, see, what happens is -- John recognizes that Rodney is worried, backs him up... but this is a group of 'eggheads' on Earth; he didn't bring his gun, so he can't draw and hold them at bay. While Rodney is protesting, Tunney shouts Rodney down and Tunney's friends wrestle Rodney and John back to their chairs -- they're not fighting as hard as they could because their minds are pointing out that these scientists are supposed to be 'friendlies', and anyway they're outnumbered. Then Tunney coldly informs Rodney and the room that he's run every possible scenario, Rodney's simply being his 'usual blowhard' self and trying to steal Tunney's limelight, and he assures people that nothing can go wrong. As he speaks, he flips the switch before Rodney can make himself heard / believed, and things go to hell as they did in the episode.

And there we are; we've set up the danger scenario without trashing the character of Rodney McKay. And it's not hard at all; it boggles the mind that a professional writer couldn't manage it.

Hi! wneleh mentioned you were having a good discussion, so I dropped by.
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Re: I loved it, but here's why!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(I think the discussion might actually be in the next post up, there's not as much here...?)

But either way - YES! That's perfect! Now if only we had another season to hire you...

Seriously. Your way works perfectly for me, I'd have loved to see it (and see the other scientists eating so much crow when Rodney's warnings are proved right). Hell, they even could've done it with Keller, I'd believe her backing down if Tunney called in security. But that she doesn't support him at all, and Rodney folds like tissue paper - Rodney, who has lied in Kolya's face and faced down Replicators and shot Wraith wearing one boot - that Rodney would be intimidated by a roomful of scientists he KNOWS aren't as good as he is - ARGH!!! Stupid show!

Re: I loved it, but here's why!

[starwatcher]

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(I think the discussion might actually be in the next post up, there's not as much here...?)

Yes, read it and enjoyed it, but everyone else has already said what I'd say.

Now if only we had another season to hire you...

Pfft! I'll be your and Cesperanza's water-carrier and backup, but I'm really not great at the ideas end.

Hell, they even could've done it with Keller, I'd believe her backing down if Tunney called in security.

Yes, exactly. They could have set up the same situation while showing that Jennifer believes in and supports Rodney (in which case the 'I love you' would be a lot more believable), AND while letting Rodney be his usual acerbic, competent self, but temporarily overwhelmed by numbers and/or circumstances. Bad characterization all around.

BUT -- I'm beginning to believe that writers / producers / etc don't truly care about characterization. They commit any bastardization of even their own characters if works to tell their story. They either don't have the time or simply can't be bothered to figure out a way to have the desired setup while working with established characterization.

The funny thing is, while they often look down their noses at fanfic writers, we are (in general) much more true to characterization and avoiding plot-holes. If some of the canon plot-holes had appeared in our fic, we'd have been roundly criticized and/or laughed out of fandom. But they're the 'creators', so any travesty of writing is perfectly acceptable. Grrr...
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Re: I loved it, but here's why!

[philexos.livejournal.com]

heh, good point about messing up the impending catastrophe with john's greater knowledge of Rodney. I didn't notice as much Rodney's reaction to Keller, as much as Keller's lines and delivery, I kept going 'wtf?' (and waiting for her to get killed. I'm bad :)

I'll have to watch it again to check that out. Thanks!