Something which is really interesting to me -- though I didn't realize this last night; it came to me as I was drifting awake this morning, pondering the conversation -- is that you are actually saying *exactly* what Gero is saying, just using different words.
No, what I'm saying is that most people, to be happy, need romantic AND friendship love together. The ideal romance, to my mind, the one that will make most people happy (depending on the person, of course), is to have a lover and a best friend in one person.
There are exceptions to this rule, but of almost all the happily married couples I know in my acquaintance, this holds true. A romantic relationship that isn't based on friendship won't last either, in my experience. Friendship isn't enough to create the stable bond of commitment, because with most people, however good friends you are, your friend is going to want to get married, too. So no, friendship isn't enough.
But sex/romance isn't enough, either. Gero is saying it is - he didn't write Rodney & Keller as friends; no one's written them doing any friend things together, sharing interests, having fun, etc. Rodney's incredibly awkward around her, he won't relax and be himself as he is with his friends (e.g. John or Radek or Sam.) Lovers can become friends over time, but they haven't really known each other long or well enough to be close friends yet. So for Gero to say that romantic relationship trumps the friendship, when that romance is not a friendship itself, I find fundamentally wrong, a juvenile view of love.
ETA: Because I fear this point has gotten muddled - I'm not saying friendship doesn't endure, because it does. Rather, it's that a particular type of friendship, the cohabitating/partner/team thing that I am so hung-up on in fiction, almost never endures unchanging. In NCIS, the end of s5, the team is broken up - they keep in touch, but it's not the same; it's not what I want to watch or read about. Likewise, if Rodney moved back to Earth as he was saying he might at the end of "Brainstorm" (wtf??) I'm sure he'd still stay in touch with John, and they'd get along fine whenever they saw each other, but the break-up of the team would break my heart, and they'd have lost the particular closeness I love in them, that when they want to have fun, they go to each other, and are there for each other when losing their minds, etc.
So it's not that I don't think friendships can last, but rather a particular type of very intimate, partner-like, marriage-like, roommate friendship, that happens to be my particular kink, and what almost all of my favorite fictional relationships are - those relationships I have trouble seeing lasting, by the rules of society, as only platonic friendship.
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winterfish
Re: Part 2 (edited)
Date: 2008-11-28 05:41 am (UTC)No, what I'm saying is that most people, to be happy, need romantic AND friendship love together. The ideal romance, to my mind, the one that will make most people happy (depending on the person, of course), is to have a lover and a best friend in one person.
There are exceptions to this rule, but of almost all the happily married couples I know in my acquaintance, this holds true. A romantic relationship that isn't based on friendship won't last either, in my experience. Friendship isn't enough to create the stable bond of commitment, because with most people, however good friends you are, your friend is going to want to get married, too. So no, friendship isn't enough.
But sex/romance isn't enough, either. Gero is saying it is - he didn't write Rodney & Keller as friends; no one's written them doing any friend things together, sharing interests, having fun, etc. Rodney's incredibly awkward around her, he won't relax and be himself as he is with his friends (e.g. John or Radek or Sam.) Lovers can become friends over time, but they haven't really known each other long or well enough to be close friends yet. So for Gero to say that romantic relationship trumps the friendship, when that romance is not a friendship itself, I find fundamentally wrong, a juvenile view of love.
ETA: Because I fear this point has gotten muddled - I'm not saying friendship doesn't endure, because it does. Rather, it's that a particular type of friendship, the cohabitating/partner/team thing that I am so hung-up on in fiction, almost never endures unchanging. In NCIS, the end of s5, the team is broken up - they keep in touch, but it's not the same; it's not what I want to watch or read about. Likewise, if Rodney moved back to Earth as he was saying he might at the end of "Brainstorm" (wtf??) I'm sure he'd still stay in touch with John, and they'd get along fine whenever they saw each other, but the break-up of the team would break my heart, and they'd have lost the particular closeness I love in them, that when they want to have fun, they go to each other, and are there for each other when losing their minds, etc.
So it's not that I don't think friendships can last, but rather a particular type of very intimate, partner-like, marriage-like, roommate friendship, that happens to be my particular kink, and what almost all of my favorite fictional relationships are - those relationships I have trouble seeing lasting, by the rules of society, as only platonic friendship.