black and white and read only in specific fan circles

[xparrot]

OTW announced the preliminary stages of an archived zine collection: The Fan Culture Preservation Project. To me this sounds incredibly awesome - it's not a zine lending library (which I'd really love) but it's a chance for older zines to survive for future fans. Considering my current beloved MUNCLE has some 40 years of fic, but the vast majority of it is only available in zines, and the earliest of that has pretty much vanished without a trace...yeah, awesome!

Reading the comments on the posts, however, it seems like a few ziners (er, if that's the term?) are really distressed by the project's existence. Some of it is legal concerns - worry about authors being targeted for copyright violation, especially as a lot of zine authors published under their real names. While I think such concerns are far-fetched (especially given the nature of the collection; I worked in a university library special collections department for a few years, they're not exactly high-traffic areas), I can understand why it might worry folks, in our litigious age.

But more than that, it seems like some ziners are perturbed by the thought that scholars and non-fans might be able to read their zines. Or that people in general might be able to read them (with a fair bit of effort; they're not going to be online or anything, at least not without authorial permission, and I trust OTW to remain faithful to that.) The thought that they'd be theoretically accessible to anybody, even a non-fan, is upsetting to the point of making these people never want to make another zine.

And I admit...this baffles me. I can't understand this viewpoint at all. Then again, I have a hard time understanding people who pull all their fanfic from the web just because they're tired of a fandom. If one is worried about legal issues, that's one thing; and if you're actually being harassed for writing slash or something, I guess I can see it. And if you don't want feedback, positive or negative, if you're tired of talking or thinking about a story, fine. But that you just don't want your stories being read, by people who want to read them...I don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me.

I'm guilty of putting the reader's rights above the author's, I guess. It horrifies me that a story could be lost, merely because the author doesn't like it anymore. Cut ties with it, fine; post it anonymously, deny you ever wrote it, sure, that's your choice. But to erase it, delete it, make disappear a work of art that someone enjoyed, that someone remembered, that made someone think or feel, so that they can never re-experience it, or share it with anyone else - that upsets me. It feels like censorship, even if it's the artist's own; like a fundamental denial of what art is. Like it's a crime, a sin, to murder a story, even if you're its creator; like a story's right to exist trumps anyone's wish for it to be gone. That art is forgotten is inevitable, but that it is lost because it was deliberately buried, deliberately hidden - that's tragedy.

Which is why things like OTW excite me so, because they're fighting against that loss. And it's such a strong feeling in me that I get really, really tempted to say damn the fans who disagree, because they're wrong.

(It occurs to me that this emotional response is probably as extreme as that of those fans who do vehemently disagree; they likely think I'm just as fundamentally wrong. But it's awfully difficult for me to see it their way; even if intellectually I sort of understand a creator's right to control access to their work, emotionally my convictions are hard to shift. I just can't grok it.)

(I also admit there's a lot of selfishness in my way of thinking - there's MUNCLE fic out there that I want to read, damn it! What do I care if the authors like their stories anymore - I'll enjoy them, and that's what matters! XP)

ETA: Though I was responding to a few dissenting voices on the OTW blog, francescacoppa explains in comments here that the majority of zine fans in the OTW, or who the OTW has heard from, are in favor of the archive project. Most of us do want these things preserved, and shared, and I can't say how happy I am to hear this. It does match with my previous experience with old school fans; in the various older fandoms I've been in, the established fans have usually been welcoming and very ready to share the wealth of years of fanning with crazy new fans, to my gratitude and delight.

ETA2: I was linked on metafandom, it seems. Erm. With all my raving about freedom of information, I really ought to be able to remember that other people beyond my circle of friends might come read my idiocies. Anyway, welcome. I do have one request: if you are going to post anonymous replies, please sign them - you don't have to use your actual name or handle; Anonymous X-Y-Z is fine, but if there are different anonymouses posting, I'd like to be able to keep them straight.

Comments

[xjestx.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting for me - synchronicity or something - because I was recently contemplating setting up a lending library for Man from UNCLE zine fic. I put out a feeler on network_command...and, um, it resulted in enough upset email replies to make me drop the project.

I don't understand the attitude, but then, I was never a part of that culture so maybe I shouldn't just assume that it's something I will automatically be able to understand. I truly admire the amount work and the amount of heart that goes into making a zine. I would love to see a record of that preserved, though, in the end it's not really my place to decide how that should happen.

In any case, I'm happy that OTW is taking it on. :)

[ariadne83]

The thing that gets me about people destroying their own work is that you can never un-destroy it. I learned that the hard way - I burned years' worth of notebooks when I finished high school, and I really regret it now, eight years later.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

Twenty-thirty years ago, folks wrote and read under different circumstances. They wrote for a relatively small circle of friends -- zine sold apporx. 100-150 issues in a run. If you sold more than that, you were doing well.

I am curious to hear the reasons folks give for being upset. I'm not saying I don't understand it ---because circumstances have changed so much, that I guess I do.

Back when File 40 was set up, a lot of zine folks didn't want their work put up on the web. Now, perhaps, they don't like the idea that what was created for a small closed community will be available outside that community.

Also, a lot of folks don't like being studied by scholars, particularly those who are not fans as well. I can see that too. In MFU fandom, we've had the Margaret Meads come through trying to study us like we were colorful native cultures and it was insulting, especially since they weren't giving us anything in return.

But I received lots of info and support when I did my diss ---and in return, I've always shared what info I had and made it possible for folks to get the diss at half price (unfortunately, no longer an option)

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

BTW: there is already MFU fan material at the U of Iowa, preserved in the Norman Felton Collection (I was there around '97)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, what were the problems people were having with the lending library? Because that wouldn't have the copyright concerns or the non-fan-reader concerns that the OTW project is raising, so I'm wondering why it would have upset people so.

I really admire the amount of work that goes into a zine, too - and it's such a different form of fanning, a different way of reaching out to other fans. Different communities, different rules...

As a fan-writer myself, though, I have such a hard time understanding why someone *wouldn't* want their stories read by people. I pimp my fics out all over the place, I'm always thrilled to know someone's reading my fic. That you wouldn't want your stories shared with other fans...I really just don't get it.

(Especially when it's zines, which are sold - not for profit, true, but there's still a certain level of ownership there that doesn't exist with freely distributed internet fic. Someone who's actually spent money on a zine, don't they have a right to share it - not making copies, but lending out the hardcopy zine itself - with anyone? But that doesn't seem to be kosher with some ziners.)

Ah, I don't know - at any rate, yeah, I'm glad OTW's doing this!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's definitely an issue, too - though I think that's more personal to the artist. I don't think you can really argue that you should preserve a work against the artist's wishes for the sake of the artist; they might regret it later, but they might not, and either way it's their decision, their responsibility. But a work, once published, belongs to the audience as well (to my mind) and for that it should be preserved, I feel...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes...my perspective is definitely limited; I've grown up in the Information Age, as it were, and I tend to fall on the extremely liberal side of any intellectual property debate. Very much in the "art and information want to be freeee~!" camp. And as a fan-writer myself, I'm always happy to get more readers; I published a few zine stories a while ago, but prefer having my work online because it's more accessible to more people. So the idea of *wanting* a closed, limited audience is utterly alien to me.

Even give that, though, it surprises me how, hmm, personally, I find myself taking this. While I can theoretically appreciate fans being disturbed by their one-time small, closed circles being opened to the general public (even on a limited basis) - emotionally, the thought of totally *losing* the thousands of zines and stories and art out there, all those creations that fans put so much work and love into - that thought is so upsetting to me that I'm struggling to respect the wishes of fellow fans.

Then, too, when it comes to fandom scholarship, I think that's been changing, too; while I think there are some of the "anthropologist" types still around, the majority of aca-fen these days are fans themselves, studying what they love.

But even if that wasn't so, I personally think it's worth bearing the scrutiny of a few condescending scholars to preserve zines (in some format or other) for generations of fans to come...and it's honestly hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that not all fans agree. Am working on it, though!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

That is way cool! Man, I'd love to work with a fan collection...it's things like this that make me think maybe I should go back to working in libraries.

[bluemeanybeany.livejournal.com]

Just as a question which you may know if you looked into it xjestx. How can the fans who write zines which have to be paid for operate within copyright? Is the answer that they're not? (not that I have an opinion on the morals of this as lord knows I've blantant flaunted many, many copyrights in my time :) I'm just curious. Being a wee youngest I wasnt really around for the whole zine thing.

Which brings me to my second point. I think this might be (dare I suggest) an age thing. (watch me vastly oversimplify and offend everybody, seriously no offence meant everybody its just my theory ) I've noticed that I just dont get some of the attitudes of the older fans. (not that I don't love you guys cause I do)
But...

I would not pay for a zine on principle. (unless it's shipping and the cost of the ink and paper to print it) It's a fan thing, it should be free. All fan things should be free, whatever fandom. It should be fuelled by love, not money. I would be prepared to swap, i.e make a zine myself (or do a drawing, or make a video, or bake cookies) and swap it for another fan's zine. We're all cousins in the international cousinhood of Muncle and we should operate with love not money. I understand that there might be a duty to support the zines with money but I really can't see the need. If someone sent me a lovely zine I'd pay them back in a fanish way, which would support,preserve and (most importantly) promote the fandom more. I also don't give a damn about people borrowing characters, ideas, themes, plots whatever from stories and videos. As long as they don't just copy and paste it exactly with their name on it (and there have been some who've done this on youtube- I just say to them you can keep it up on your site as long as you just say you didnt make it, I dont care if my name is on it, the important thing is that people are seeing it not that they know I made it.) Plus oooo I'm breaking copyright law myself so who am I to moralise. If we all respected artist integrity there would be no creative fandom, the whole point is the freedom from rules. There is however common politeness, so you credit.

If things are on the internet they get seen and enjoyed by vastly more people, of different demographs. The fandom needs young blood to continue so it's important that it's in as many places as possible. So never delete anything. It could be the only way that one kid gets into Uncle. If you take it down they might never, ever hear of Muncle and be deprived of the joys of Illya Kuryakin in their life.

We probably need to have a general fandom conference in which we agree a stragety about how to promote Muncle as a fandom for the future you know. A Fan Summit Five if you will.

p.s I am slightly drunk (you can probably tell) so hopefully the above is coherent...it appears to be in sentences so that is good.

[xjestx.livejournal.com]

I have to be careful about what I say here since I want to respect the privacy of the various people who took the trouble to contact me privately. But now I feel like one of those people who cry "all the lurkers totally support me in email"...except in this case they, um, don't support me. :)

In any case, the email that struck me most was this one very earnest note from a woman who didn't want me to start a library because then people might be able to read a story she wrote 10 years ago that she now finds completely mortifying. She wanted this story to vanish from the face of the earth.

My initial (successfully repressed) impulse was to send her a three word reply in font size 80 saying MANUSCRIPTS DON'T BURN.
Fortunately, I came to my senses. After all, you can't assume that someone has read Bulgakov just because they have spent 20+ years being in love with Illya Kuryakin. ;) Her complaint was actually the easiest for me to comprehend. I have fic out there on the internet that I wish would disappear too...unfortunately, sometimes writing fanfiction is like letting out a fart in a crowded cafeteria: no matter how much you regret it you can't take it back.

A lot of the other objections I got didn't make sense to me at all. Quite a few people were worried that having zines in a library would allow fans to make copies of them and distribute the copies... I was completely stunned by this. I mean, how is that risk any different from any other time a zine is sold? At least with a library you can make people agree to certain terms of service, which is more of a promise than you get selling your zine online or at a con.

Surprisingly, no one that I heard from seemed worried about official copyright issues. That was the one thing I was expecting to see a certain amount of concern about.

[sholio]

*nods* I've been experiencing something similar with Wiseguy just recently, where most of the fic is in zines and most of the zines are obscure and hard to find. After having gotten used to finding fanfic for free on the Internet, where at most all you have to do is subscribe to a locked journal or ask for a password, it's disconcerting (and, in a way, fascinating) to slip into a completely different subculture, where fic has to be carefully rationed and getting a new zine is cause for squee. I'm finding that I actually enjoy the search, but I still would rather have more fic more readily available, and I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the mindset that not only is this sort of decreased access (in both the physical and financial sense) a virtue, but it's one that has to be preserved even at a cost.

When I first got into fandom, even with online fandom, it really amazed and baffled me how proprietary many fen are about the dissemination and editing of their fanworks. "Do not use my OCs in your stories!" "Do not use my icons as bases!" "Do not make icons from my fanart!" I ... I just can't figure out how so many people reconcile that attitude with being in fandom, where the whole point is to build on someone else's creation, and yet they turn around and hold their own as close to the vest as possible.

The zine thing is complicated, I guess, because not only is there the desire for absolute control over one's stories (which I find hypocritical and even downright unethical in a fan, as we're all playing in other people's sandboxes to begin with) but also, I think, it's an outgrowth of nostalgia for zine subculture -- I don't know for sure, but I suspect that zine fen might not want their stories more widely available because they like the status quo, where zines are rare and the search for a new zine is part of the experience. Making the zine, or the story, widely available takes away that part of the fun for them. Control of access is very closely tied up with how the whole thing works, and how the social aspect of it functions as well. I used to be involved with making, selling and trading minicomics, and the situation is similar -- it's very hands-on, very personal; you actually have at least some social interaction with most of the people who read your comic. It's a totally different thing from putting it up on the web and interacting with anonymous strangers who mostly don't comment, and face-to-face minicomics subculture is still thriving in the era of the Internet because a lot of people like that. For me, though, I didn't really have a choice about going to the web, because now that I'm living in Alaska again, I can't afford to go to small press comic shows, meet and trade with other people. I think I'm more aware of the access issues now that I'm personally experiencing them, because in addition to the risk of some stories and zines just disappearing forever, it also puts quite a barrier in place between old fen and new (or disadvantaged) fen, who either can't afford to participate or just don't know the seeekrit handshake (the names and addresses to write to for zines).

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ah...yes, I can sort of understand the embarrassment of having a story out there that you wish you'd never published. But, well, yes, once you publish, in any format, once you give it to someone outside your personal circle...the horse is already run off, no use closing the barn door. And besides, even if you hate the story, someone else might love it, and who are you to deny them their enjoyment?

The copying thing - I don't get that at all. (It's one of the things worrying people about the OTW project, too - as an archive library, you'll be able to request excerpts of the zines photocopied at 25 cents a page. This is more expensive than buying a zine if it's still in print, but people are still upset by it.) Putting aside the innate risks of selling a zine...why do people care? Zines are supposed to be non-profit anyway, right? So why is it such a concern if they're copied? ...Umm, if there are any ziners out there, I'm not being facetious, I really don't understand why "zine piracy" is such a crime. If someone's claiming that they created the zine when they didn't, that's plagiarism and clearly wrong. And if you're actually making money selling copies, that's obviously piracy. But copying a zine to give to your friend so she can read the story, too - why is that so objectionable?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

to erase it, delete it, make disappear a work of art that someone enjoyed, that someone remembered, that made someone think or feel, so that they can never re-experience it, or share it with anyone else - that upsets me. It feels like censorship, even if it's the artist's own; like a fundamental denial of what art is. Like it's a crime, a sin, to murder a story, even if you're its creator; like a story's right to exist trumps anyone's wish for it to be gone. That art is forgotten is inevitable, but that it is lost because it was deliberately buried, deliberately hidden - that's tragedy.

Yes. This. People deleting their fic off the web and erasing it from the record makes the archivist in me twitch -- it's destruction of information. It's like book burning. Maybe it's not *important* information in the grand scheme of things the way, say, government documents or scientific papers are, but fic written and publically posted or distributed in zine form is part of fandom's shared history. Destroying it or making it impossible to access is destroying part of that history.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think there is a generation gap here - not necessarily age-dependent, but there are different generations of fans, operating from different rules of community and sharing. And our current modern rules don't mesh cleanly with the older rules.

I'm not sure, but I think the exchange of money with zines wasn't about profit so much as proving one's fannishness? "put your money where your mouth is" - showing you like fic so much you're willing to pay for it. I'd rather pay in fannish productions myself and not get money involved, but that is perhaps a newer model.

I don't want to disrespect the fans that came before me; I don't want to make ziners regret ever making zines. But all the same...yes, it's utterly tragic to think the generations of fans to come might never know Illya in all his badass blond glory, and all the stories he inspired!

[sholio]

But copying a zine to give to your friend so she can read the story, too - why is that so objectionable?

People object to that??? *boggles* I really don't get that at all; I mean, I was under the impression that zines were basically sold at cost anyway -- no one is profiting off them. Even though I do incline towards the extremely liberal end of copyright law myself, as an aspiring pro, I can see how a copyright holder could object to someone making copies of their book, which is how they earn their living, and selling it. But beyond that, and particularly for a fanfic writer, where supposedly the major joy is writing for pleasure and sharing with other fen -- I just cannot see how anyone could be so petty!

[xjestx.livejournal.com]

I believe the OTW has the most up-to-date details on the legal position of fanfiction re: copyright. Their answers are likely to be far more accurate than anything I have to say about copyright law.

I don't think it's so much an age thing as a cultural niche thing (although that relates to age in way, since a cultural niche is all about being in a particular time and/or place). I had this professor a few years ago who was writing a book about radical performance art in Canada in the 70s...and holy crow, you would not believe how touchy radical Canadian performance artists from the 70s can be about their special little niche. Ditto for zine writers and their niche.

It takes a crazy amount of work to carve that niche in the first place, so, yeah, I guess I understand why people are going to be very, very sensitive about outsiders coming along sticking their noses into the niche and acting like they have a right to that space even though they weren't around when it was being created in the first place. It would probably piss me off too, if I was from that generation.

But, OTOH, there is a fairly high level of complaint from the zine fans bemoaning the fact that zine sales are dropping and new fans don't buy zines. In my mind, you can't have it both ways.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

because not only is there the desire for absolute control over one's stories (which I find hypocritical and even downright unethical in a fan, as we're all playing in other people's sandboxes to begin with)

This, this, this. Emblazoned on a t-shirt, a sign, a billboard. Yes!

Otherwise - this:

but also, I think, it's an outgrowth of nostalgia for zine subculture -- I don't know for sure, but I suspect that zine fen might not want their stories more widely available because they like the status quo, where zines are rare and the search for a new zine is part of the experience.

Wow, okay, this makes a lot of sense to me. And it's obvious when I think about it, but I really didn't see it before. But, yes, holding onto what you have - with the old-school ziners (or your minicomic circles) - it's not really about privacy (though that's how they're wording their arguments) but about community, about preserving the community, the specialness of it. It's about that particular precious sort of inclusion that feels like exclusion to anyone looking in from the outside.

(It's akin to the fans of indie bands who get outraged when their band makes it big, because then everyone loves them and it's not special anymore...)

And I can get that, emotionally - it is exciting to go on a zine-hunt, and it is a way to make friends and meet people, and it's a style of community that is vanishing into the internet's electronic ether, and I'm sad myself to see it go. (Heck, I miss aspects of mailing list communities and email LoC, too!)

At the same time - most of those communities are going to vanish no matter what; the old out-of-print zines will be lost and gone. And if we want any of them to survive, they have to go public to some extent, they have to be accessible. And then, too, yes, it's unfair to fans who can't afford to buy zines, or don't know where to buy them, or can't buy them because they've been long out of print and no one wants to sell their few precious copies...

(And I think what these fans are missing, too, is that this particular OTW project is still, comparatively speaking, personal, small-scale - technically it's a public collection, but special collections are not exactly easy-access. The only people who are going to be able to get to those zines are those who really want them...and can pay for them, either in getting themselves to Iowa, or paying for limited photocopies...so for now, anyway, it's not flinging the doors open. It's about preservation, not open-access, at least not yet...though speaking as a reader myself, I hope the access comes!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm not actually sure if people object to individual copies or not - I know someone on the OTW post mentioned "zine piracy" and it sounded like they meant any copying of a fanzine (maybe it was only in-print fanzines?) At any rate, I was a bit boggled that some people were very concerned about the OTW archive being photocopiable (on a 25-cents-a-page, individual request basis.) So it sounds like that's a major no-no in zining?

[xjestx.livejournal.com]

But copying a zine to give to your friend so she can read the story, too - why is that so objectionable?

I don't get it either - at least not with text. It's another story if it's the fan artists who are complaining. The impact of a visual art is extremely dependent on the quality of reproduction. I won't even scan my drawings to a website because once you turn pencil and paper into pixels it just looks like garbage. Don't even get me started on famous paintings being turned into posters - I wrote a whole paper a year ago on why that is basically a crime against art.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

People deleting their fic off the web and erasing it from the record makes the archivist in me twitch -- it's destruction of information.

Yes! *inner archivist twitches and like a electrified fish out of water*

I think the point of OTW is that we get to decide what's "important" - these are works that matter to us, so we should preserve them for us. Hey, we're revolutionizing the way fiction works - it's not as significant as curing cancer, but it's still pretty cool!

[bluemeanybeany.livejournal.com]

yes youre right 'generation' is a better description than age. I'm for as wide as distribution area as is physically and technologically possible (the more that's out there, the great chance it has of lasting) It must be preserved, and then shared. How we go about doing this I don't know.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes, this is true. I tend to fall more on the "badly reproduced art is better than no art" end of the scale, but I can understand the argument against it.

I guess that is part of the issue with zines? Ziners (creators and fans) tend to see zines as a whole-package deal, with the art being a significant part of the story (and the quality of the zine itself, too). While as for me...it's the fic I care about; I own a few zines (mostly trib copies) and really, the color covers are nice and all, but it's more convenient to read on the computer anyway, for me. Forget presentation, gimme content!

[xjestx.livejournal.com]

Forget presentation, gimme content!

Text is pretty damn forgiving as far as presentation goes but there are limits. You have to care about presentation at least a little else you could find yourself reduced to reading off milk cartons or printed on toilet paper... or *gasp* as navy blue font on a black background. ;)

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

I can't say I understand that level of reluctance, at all.

When I was in high school, I bought a Doctor Who book from the local comic shop. I just assumed that since I bought it there, it was all legal 'n' stuff. It was hardbound and everything! In retrospect, it could very well have been a fan work -- it was a collection of short stories and artwork, all about the first five (or six?) Doctors. I have no idea what happened to this book; I may have sold it, or given it to my brother, or left it in my parents' house, which is now gone. I really want that book now!

And knowing that there is so much out there for the shows I currently enjoy, so much that I'll never see because I just can't devote the energy to tracking it all down ... maybe I'm a "lesser fan" by some lights for not spending that energy, but I'm still saddened. (As a writer, though, I love knowing that in 20 years I can add a note to my internet-posted first fictions explaining that, hey, it's old and I'm now embarrassed by X, Y, and Z, so please be kind ... and that note is automatically part of the experience for any new reader, plus becoming part of the experience for any prior reader who might come back. Hard to do that with a physical zine!)

Still -- I don't buy the whole "information wants to be free" thing. Art is work, just as deserving of recompense as programming is; if everybody just pirates everything, there's no incentive for anyone to produce anything worth pirating. As far as I'm able to determine, when I write fanfic I'm producing a transformative work and thereby in the clear regarding copyright; if I were attempting to make a profit off it, the legality would be murkier, but I don't.

But people get more passionate in general than I can really fathom. I recently heard of someone deleting one archive of work in what sounded to me like a fit of pique, and I thought it all sounded kind of silly and self-defeating. (An audience is useful. Don't spit on them. Otherwise you just end up shouting into the void and that gets depressing.) Then I saw someone else declaring that the writer had stolen from this reader because once fiction is posted, it belongs to the readers, without condition, and the writer had wounded this reader personally with malice aforethought by making it go away. And, no. Yes, the reader's life may be poorer now, and certainly the author is inviting a fandom divorce, but ... writer's fiction on writer's website. To me, the writer did most of the work of creation (the reader does contribute) and deserves at least some control over the resulting product. I don't think either side is perfectly right ... and I really don't get the pitched-battle approach.

I kind of want to tell everybody to just chill. I ... get that a lot. Heh.

[francescacoppa.livejournal.com]

FWIW, the comments on the OTW blog are totally not typical of zine fans' overall reaction to the project. We had several major donations from serious BNFs in the zine world come in within 24 hours of the announcement. The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive, just the positive people were less vocal and just wrote to me or to the Open Doors committee directly. It's actually made me totally teary with happiness; I'll post more information to the OTW blog as these donations solidify. But the response was better than I ever dreamed, which has made it pretty easy to be sanguine and patient with those who don't who don't like the idea of the project.