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xparrotSo last week I finished Angel: the Series. In the end...I'm not sure how I felt about it. Season 5 was in some ways a summation of the progression of the entire show, starting out mostly fun and teamy with a bit of seriousness, and then getting steadily darker, past the point of what I enjoy, even though they did some really interesting stuff.
Buffy I liked, with some reservations, but overall I enjoyed it while not loving it. Angel, on the other hand, I absolutely love about 50% of the show, and pretty much hate 50% of it, and it leaves me very confused. Especially when there's some things about it that I love and hate simultaneously. Like Illyria (...I keep typing "Illya" instead, wonder why :P). Illyria herself (itself?) I find a fascinating character, one I'm sorry I didn't get more of, more of how she dealt with involuntarily imposed humanity (like Spike x1000), how the memories of a single human lifetime affected a being older than humanity itself. And there's something really nifty about killing off a character but keeping the actor around - and giving her a role she seemed to revel in, too (Really, who doesn't want to play a super-powered evil ex-demon god?)
OTOH, I loved Fred, and geeze, why does every single major female character in Angel end up evil?! Come on! Cordelia got so thoroughly shafted in s4, I can't even comprehend why (and the single ep she returned for in s5, though touching, didn't nearly make up for it). And then with Fred, it wasn't just enough to kill her, they had to destroy her soul - mainly to keep the guys from going and getting it back, but still. Harsh! Not to mention it was done in large part to make Wesley angst, and that didn't work for me anyway...I never really felt the Wesley/Fred, not like I felt the Wesley/Lilah - or, for that matter, the Wesley/Illyria. (Really, I wish for the tragedy of Fred's death that they'd revived the Fred/Gunn, which did work for me - I'd have been more affected by Fred's death if it had been Gunn there with her. With Wesley, it felt so much like the show had forced them together just in time for the angst. And then the developing Wesley/Illyria would've had another layer, with Gunn more involved in the mix.)
Gunn's whole arc in s5...well, at least he got one, but like everything else I'm not sure how I felt about it. I liked parts of it, didn't like other parts. I wish it'd made it clearer that he didn't get any IQ boost from the modifications, just knowledge that allowed him to take advantage of his native genius. About half the time this is how the show said it was, but the other half it wasn't so clear. I never bought the "Gunn only believes himself the muscle" bit of his character, considering how it denied, oh, the entire rest of his life, with all the work he did leading the gangs against the vampires. Of all the chars, he was the one with the most leadership experience - a natural leader, too; he took that position, not like he was elected or born to it - but the show never acknowledged this, past his introduction. Frustrating.
But then, there was stuff I loved! The Angel-Spike, and the Angel/Spike (...or Angelus/Spike, which was surprisingly textual...) was pretty much everything I could ask for. Vampires with souls = MASSIVE DORKS and they could be so ridiculously petty and jealous and argumentative about cavemen vs astronauts and yeah, they don't like each other, but they love each other, as family does. And Angel/Buffy/Spike is totally and entirely my OT3. (The Italy ep, with Buffy dating the entirely unseen Immortal, so, so dumb, but HAW. Yeah, they're all perfect for each other, no one can convince me otherwise.)
Also, PUPPET!ANGEL, OMGWTFBBQLOL. (like the Buffy musical, I knew that the puppet ep existed. STILL.)
The resolution of Connor's story, him getting his memories back, but keeping his old life, too - that was about the happiest ending possible, better than I thought he'd get. (and then, Connor trying to stand with Angel at the end, his, "They'll destroy you," and Angel's "As long as you're okay, they can't." Oh, my heart.) Then, Lindsey coming back was, YAY, Lindsey, but shame about him being evil again, and shame about how he ended up...it wasn't entirely out of line, but at the same time, I wish it hadn't gone down like that. Poor, poor Lorne.
The final episodes were all about breaking the characters, shattering them into so many pieces all the king's horses & men couldn't reassemble them, which hurt...but they were also pretty damn cool TV. (plus, Adam Baldwin!) So, like everything else about AtS...I don't know how I felt about them. I think, the show being what it was, its ending was fitting to it, and the final charge was actually pretty perfect - in some ways, I don't want to read the comics; I don't want a canonical conclusion to that story, but want it open to any and all possibilities.
So, now that I've finished both series, I'm open to recs! Vids especially, I'd love vids for either show (oh! I've been lent Scooby Road and entirely forgot I had it, will have to watch that!)- I've mentioned my preferences before, but really, if the vid is awesome or pretty or hysterical, I'd love to see it. As far as fic goes...I am sort of wanting fic, but what I'm wanting is pretty specific and not that common, from the Buffyverse fic I've looked at...I'd like AtS s5/post-series stuff* that's not incredibly angsty; if not gen (and good, non-depressing post-AtS gen would be awesome) I'd especially love either a B/A fic with a happy ending that I can believe in (pretty much all the B/A I've seen is either ridiculously unconvincing domestic romantic fluff, or tragic AAAAAANGST, much of it well written but not what I'm in the mood for) or else a Buffy/Angel/Spike fic that's more about story than the sex. And that has a happy ending! which I don't even know how it could work, but want it bad enough that I'm tempted to try to write it myself, just to figure it out.
* I know there's a lot of great fic written earlier in AtS's run, but I've got this thing that I can't really read fic about characters who later die in canon. E.g. I can't read fic set in the first couple seasons of NCIS, for all that I loved SPOILER. So most earlier Buffy & Angel fic wouldn't work for me, now that I've seen the whole show. The one exception is chars who die in the final eps, because generally I can just forget that they ever did. But most of the BtVS/AtS deaths cannot be denied as easily as, say, Richie Ryan's...
I also must mention that having finished with the Buffyverse, I've started watching Bones (yes, yes, I'm madly crushing on David Boreanaz, moving on), am at the beginning of s2 and am rather enjoying that. Booth & Brennan are a match for Mulder & Scully in their mostly-platonic partnershippy loyalty (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
gnine is OTPing them madly and I expect I'll get there soon enough) and the other chars are fun (Angela especially is made of awesome!) and the teaminess is cute and I don't have to worry about any of the great female characters getting taken over by evil demon-gods, always a plus! ...And while I do love Angel, DB is so dang cute when he's smiling and cheerful and wearing colors (and really silly ties!) Some guys/chars look better in pain (John Crichton *cough*) and some guys look better happy, and DB's in the latter category. Plus he's gotten better at the angst as well (whenever Booth thinks about his sniper past I can't help but think that DB is going, yep, angst about past homicides, no prob, it's my specialty...) All the show wants for is a bit more h/c...(if there's any good Bones h/c fic out there, please to be pointing me toward it?)
Buffy I liked, with some reservations, but overall I enjoyed it while not loving it. Angel, on the other hand, I absolutely love about 50% of the show, and pretty much hate 50% of it, and it leaves me very confused. Especially when there's some things about it that I love and hate simultaneously. Like Illyria (...I keep typing "Illya" instead, wonder why :P). Illyria herself (itself?) I find a fascinating character, one I'm sorry I didn't get more of, more of how she dealt with involuntarily imposed humanity (like Spike x1000), how the memories of a single human lifetime affected a being older than humanity itself. And there's something really nifty about killing off a character but keeping the actor around - and giving her a role she seemed to revel in, too (Really, who doesn't want to play a super-powered evil ex-demon god?)
OTOH, I loved Fred, and geeze, why does every single major female character in Angel end up evil?! Come on! Cordelia got so thoroughly shafted in s4, I can't even comprehend why (and the single ep she returned for in s5, though touching, didn't nearly make up for it). And then with Fred, it wasn't just enough to kill her, they had to destroy her soul - mainly to keep the guys from going and getting it back, but still. Harsh! Not to mention it was done in large part to make Wesley angst, and that didn't work for me anyway...I never really felt the Wesley/Fred, not like I felt the Wesley/Lilah - or, for that matter, the Wesley/Illyria. (Really, I wish for the tragedy of Fred's death that they'd revived the Fred/Gunn, which did work for me - I'd have been more affected by Fred's death if it had been Gunn there with her. With Wesley, it felt so much like the show had forced them together just in time for the angst. And then the developing Wesley/Illyria would've had another layer, with Gunn more involved in the mix.)
Gunn's whole arc in s5...well, at least he got one, but like everything else I'm not sure how I felt about it. I liked parts of it, didn't like other parts. I wish it'd made it clearer that he didn't get any IQ boost from the modifications, just knowledge that allowed him to take advantage of his native genius. About half the time this is how the show said it was, but the other half it wasn't so clear. I never bought the "Gunn only believes himself the muscle" bit of his character, considering how it denied, oh, the entire rest of his life, with all the work he did leading the gangs against the vampires. Of all the chars, he was the one with the most leadership experience - a natural leader, too; he took that position, not like he was elected or born to it - but the show never acknowledged this, past his introduction. Frustrating.
But then, there was stuff I loved! The Angel-Spike, and the Angel/Spike (...or Angelus/Spike, which was surprisingly textual...) was pretty much everything I could ask for. Vampires with souls = MASSIVE DORKS and they could be so ridiculously petty and jealous and argumentative about cavemen vs astronauts and yeah, they don't like each other, but they love each other, as family does. And Angel/Buffy/Spike is totally and entirely my OT3. (The Italy ep, with Buffy dating the entirely unseen Immortal, so, so dumb, but HAW. Yeah, they're all perfect for each other, no one can convince me otherwise.)
Also, PUPPET!ANGEL, OMGWTFBBQLOL. (like the Buffy musical, I knew that the puppet ep existed. STILL.)
The resolution of Connor's story, him getting his memories back, but keeping his old life, too - that was about the happiest ending possible, better than I thought he'd get. (and then, Connor trying to stand with Angel at the end, his, "They'll destroy you," and Angel's "As long as you're okay, they can't." Oh, my heart.) Then, Lindsey coming back was, YAY, Lindsey, but shame about him being evil again, and shame about how he ended up...it wasn't entirely out of line, but at the same time, I wish it hadn't gone down like that. Poor, poor Lorne.
The final episodes were all about breaking the characters, shattering them into so many pieces all the king's horses & men couldn't reassemble them, which hurt...but they were also pretty damn cool TV. (plus, Adam Baldwin!) So, like everything else about AtS...I don't know how I felt about them. I think, the show being what it was, its ending was fitting to it, and the final charge was actually pretty perfect - in some ways, I don't want to read the comics; I don't want a canonical conclusion to that story, but want it open to any and all possibilities.
So, now that I've finished both series, I'm open to recs! Vids especially, I'd love vids for either show (oh! I've been lent Scooby Road and entirely forgot I had it, will have to watch that!)- I've mentioned my preferences before, but really, if the vid is awesome or pretty or hysterical, I'd love to see it. As far as fic goes...I am sort of wanting fic, but what I'm wanting is pretty specific and not that common, from the Buffyverse fic I've looked at...I'd like AtS s5/post-series stuff* that's not incredibly angsty; if not gen (and good, non-depressing post-AtS gen would be awesome) I'd especially love either a B/A fic with a happy ending that I can believe in (pretty much all the B/A I've seen is either ridiculously unconvincing domestic romantic fluff, or tragic AAAAAANGST, much of it well written but not what I'm in the mood for) or else a Buffy/Angel/Spike fic that's more about story than the sex. And that has a happy ending! which I don't even know how it could work, but want it bad enough that I'm tempted to try to write it myself, just to figure it out.
* I know there's a lot of great fic written earlier in AtS's run, but I've got this thing that I can't really read fic about characters who later die in canon. E.g. I can't read fic set in the first couple seasons of NCIS, for all that I loved SPOILER. So most earlier Buffy & Angel fic wouldn't work for me, now that I've seen the whole show. The one exception is chars who die in the final eps, because generally I can just forget that they ever did. But most of the BtVS/AtS deaths cannot be denied as easily as, say, Richie Ryan's...
I also must mention that having finished with the Buffyverse, I've started watching Bones (yes, yes, I'm madly crushing on David Boreanaz, moving on), am at the beginning of s2 and am rather enjoying that. Booth & Brennan are a match for Mulder & Scully in their mostly-platonic partnershippy loyalty (
gnine is OTPing them madly and I expect I'll get there soon enough) and the other chars are fun (Angela especially is made of awesome!) and the teaminess is cute and I don't have to worry about any of the great female characters getting taken over by evil demon-gods, always a plus! ...And while I do love Angel, DB is so dang cute when he's smiling and cheerful and wearing colors (and really silly ties!) Some guys/chars look better in pain (John Crichton *cough*) and some guys look better happy, and DB's in the latter category. Plus he's gotten better at the angst as well (whenever Booth thinks about his sniper past I can't help but think that DB is going, yep, angst about past homicides, no prob, it's my specialty...) All the show wants for is a bit more h/c...(if there's any good Bones h/c fic out there, please to be pointing me toward it?)
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Fred's soul
Date: 2010-03-26 10:05 pm (UTC)I don't believe it. We've seen enough soul restoration on BtVS & AtS (including souls that were severed from the bodies centuries earlier, e.g., Angel, Darla) to suggest that souls may be indestructible (or pretty durable, anyway).
The only evidence for the destruction of Fred's soul is the word of a Bad Guy, and BAD GUYS LIE. It's what they do! Don't believe them. (Besides, it doesn't make sense. The return of an immortal god-king requires a puny human soul as fuel? Doesn't that contradict the *immortal* part?)
I agree that Whedon & Co. threw it in to head off all calls for Fred's return, but, like Angel said, "Don't believe all you're foretold."