xparrot: Chopper reading (books)
[personal profile] xparrot
Okay, so I've been watching Supernatural since its first season. For the first couple of seasons I was there for the pretty boys and brotherly h/c, but for years now I've been into it for the trainwreck factor, as the show doesn't so much go off the rails as blow them up, with big sticks of dynamite, twirling its metaphorical mustache as it pushes the plunger to send everything spiraling down into the abyss. It's bad, is what I'm saying, on nearly any axis of bad; and I laugh when I watch it, in between fits of screaming OH JOHN RINGO NO.

As of this last episode, though, I'm starting to suspect that the showrunners themselves are not only out to make bad TV but are actually intentionally trying to kill the show off, in a brutal and sickening way. Or maybe that was just the episode? Because, all jokes aside, what the everloving fuck, show.

When I said, "Oh, Dean gets to stab Jewel Staite!" I WAS FUCKING KIDDING.

...Yeah. Jewel Staite. Was on Supernatural, playing the monster of a week. Who is also a sweet single mom who gets stabbed by Dean, while she is begging him to spare her (because the killing she did was to save her young son's life.) Oh, and did I mention she was going by the name "Amy Pond"?

I DON'T EVEN.

It's almost brilliant in how horrifically wrong it is. Not satisfied with killing off every single female character who's ever appeared in more than a single ep, now they are actually going out and finding beloved female characters in other properties to kill off, too. It's just. Wow.

I'm seriously wondering if the game plan is that by the end of this season the Winchesters are the monsters everyone is hunting down. (Crowley gets together a heroic gang of past monsters resurrected from Purgatory, and they save the world from Dean?) Because by now? I would genuinely enjoy that!

Date: 2011-10-11 06:41 am (UTC)
sholio: (SPN-Dean pretty face)
From: [personal profile] sholio
... seriously?

Um.

... yeah. I got nothin'.

I finally hit the point with SPN at the end of last season where I really don't even care enough to watch the show to mock it (and for the occasional good episode that they manage to dredge up), and now I just read other people's horrified/amused/snarky episode recaps to see what fresh hell (ha.) I'm missing.

I was about to say that I can't remember the last time a show went so completely out of its way to set on fire and then trample on everything that originally drew me to it, but then I realized, oh, wait, Heroes. Which I just watched back in July. And it self-destructed a lot faster. At least SPN gave us a couple of good seasons before it began its slide into epic suck.

Date: 2011-10-11 07:43 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Seriously. I don't even know. Once upon a time this show made me smile. Then it made me angry. Then the anger got so ridiculous that I started laughing at it, and then I shrieked and screamed YOU DID NOT JUST DO THAT, and then I started laughing again...and now I don't even know where I'm at. It's gone off the edge so many times that I almost believe it's reaching some hitherto unknown frontier of terrible, in the entire history of TV. It's not just that SPN thinks of where not to go and then goes there - it's the creativity it invokes in finding new places not to go. It's almost...impressive? There's suck, and epic suck, but this...this isn't just the Lord of the Rings of suck, this is the BIBLE of suck. All shows now can look upon SPN and know that the bar is now set so low that no matter what they do, no matter how petty and racist and misogynist they are, they can still clear it.

It's inspiring, that's what it is, and I can't stop watching for it! --Though really, just reading the recaps and snark is probably the better way to go. I'm just in too invested now; I have to see for myself how much deeper into the mire it can dig, so someday I can say, I was there, man. I was there.
Edited Date: 2011-10-11 07:45 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-10-12 04:08 am (UTC)
sholio: Highlander-Duncan holding lopped-off sword (Highlander-och no!)
From: [personal profile] sholio
There's suck, and epic suck, but this...this isn't just the Lord of the Rings of suck, this is the BIBLE of suck. All shows now can look upon SPN and know that the bar is now set so low that no matter what they do, no matter how petty and racist and misogynist they are, they can still clear it.

This comment, however, is made of EPIC WIN. And made me laugh.

I think part of what makes SPN so awesomely awful NOW is that it started out really fun and had so much promise! Some shows suck from the beginning, because no one involved with the production has any talent at all. SPN isn't like that; it has this weird dynamic of writers who can actually write, but rather than using their talents to produce compelling plots about likable characters, they use their gifts to dump on their fans in increasingly horrid ways and systematically dismantle everything that used to be good about the show. And in the middle of it, they still come up with occasional episodes that are not only watchable but really funny! I DON'T EVEN KNOW. The contrast between the love that I used to have for the show, and the DDDDDD: that I have for it now, is a really weird cognitive dissonance ...

(Also, I'm pretty sure that from now on, the names "Sera Gamble" or "Eric Kripke" on a show are going to make me run awayyyyyyy as fast as possible.)

Date: 2011-10-12 10:18 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
I think one of the things about SPN is that even back in s1-2 when I was genuinely enjoying the show, I still found it OTT and ridiculous - I never quite fanned on it in a serious way, and by the time it started getting truly terrible I wasn't really fanning at all, just watching for fun. So I never quite got that betrayal, the bad taste in my mouth from swallowing something like later X-files.

Though it was weird when I showed someone the show (a couple years ago now) and remembered that I actually did honestly, not ironically, enjoy s1. And heck, I genuinely enjoyed just this season's premiere (and have been disappointed that the last 2 eps haven't been as fun, even putting aside the horrificness)...so yeah. Cognitive dissonance.

...Though really, the things most terrible about the show now are what's always been terrible, just taken up a notch or ten - it's always come with a heaping side-order of misogyny, it's always been unduly focused on the brothers & their manpain to the exclusion of the rest of the world. It's not like Angel:TS, where almost everything I loved in the beginning was systematically dismantled and destroyed (even if s5 did have Spike and the puppet episode!); it's just that the more you get of SPN, the harder it is to ignored the ugly bits...(what I really want to know is is it intentional? are they trying to be so outrageously egregious? Or are they really that oblivious? Sometimes I almost thing they have to be doing it on purpose, as some kind of post-modern critique of trends in entertainment...then I realize I'm giving them too much credit. But still, just, how can they be so bad?!)

Date: 2011-10-12 07:04 pm (UTC)
sholio: (SPN-Dean pretty face)
From: [personal profile] sholio
I've never been super-fannish about SPN, thank god, but I'm always a little surprised and nostalgic to look back and see how much fannish investment I did have, once upon a time. I think a lot of it was where I was in my fannish life cycle, because I'd just gotten back into fandom with SGA and started getting involved with LJ fandom, and SPN was the next thing to come along for me at that point. My heart still belonged to SGA, but a lot of my flist was into SPN as well; I vidded SPN and wrote for it (a little) and had icons and all of that.

I don't feel betrayed by the show, exactly, because I started losing interest at the end of season two, and season three pretty much killed whatever fannish investment I did have. The only time I was ever really fannish about the show was in season one and early season two. Still, I get warm nostalgia fuzzies from looking back on it then. Someday I'd like to go back and watch season one and only season one (well, okay, the first few eps of season two, perhaps) and pretend the rest of it didn't happen. ^^;;


even if s5 did have Spike and the puppet episode!

... I really want to see the puppet episode at some point. I know of it, but I've never seen it (well, never seen more than a few eps of Angel, anyway ...)

Date: 2011-10-12 10:27 pm (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Yeah, SPN was one of the first Western shows I got into after that run of anime fandoms (started watching it when I first moved to Japan, ironically...) and I actually wrote about 20K words of an x-over fic in the s1-s2 hiatus - but then it got jossed incomplete, so I never posted it, and thus never really had any involvement with the fandom. I would have stopped watching after s3 - but then s4 introduced Castiel, and angels are a major weakness, and then it really went the rails and I began enjoying it for the crack factor and the outrage. Right now it helps that the bro is into it for the same reason; I probably wouldn't be watching it on my own, but we have a blast shrieking OH NO U DIDN'T!, so... XD

You could watch the first 2 seasons of Angel and then pretend it got cancelled after that? And then watch the puppet ep (because it is epic crack) and maybe a few other eps...

Date: 2011-10-11 07:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joonscribble.livejournal.com
Really? Amy Pond? REALLY?! Way to hit two shows in one go, SPN.

I'd long turned a blind eye to the rampant misogyny on this show b/c the show itself seemed too ridiculous to take seriously enough to say it commits misogyny. But this latest episode was yes, so ridiculously over the top that I now call FLAMING BALLS OF WTF SHENANIGANS on it. I also have to applaud the hilarity of Dean letting the son live. Because, you know, he's a kid. And he's a guy.

THANKS, SPN. Here's hoping Cthulhu!Castiel rises up soon and obliterates you all.

Date: 2011-10-11 07:36 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
I rewound and double-checked and if it wasn't Amy Pond, it sure as hell was something close - but Sam's little "cute name" made me sure it was intentional. ...Which I thought was just cute, until the end :P

I admit to finding the ridiculously blatant misogyny and racism almost, well, entertaining, on a certain level? Quaint, that's what it is. A lot of shows, you have to interpret, question, think about it; SPN is almost relaxing in how it's just THERE. ...and/or I have a really sick sense of humor. Eheh. But this was just so WTF. (especially the fakeout - there was a whole minute there that I actually was wondering if the show had grown up slightly, if it was going to acknowledge the shades of gray and let her live. But no. And of course it had to be Dean, and stabbing, because that's what you do with women - there are Issues, and then there are the writers of this show...)

And yeah, Dean letting the son go was hysterical. (I so want to see him come back and rip Dean apart. And I'm not even joking when I say that anymore.)

GO GO CASTHULHU!!!!
Edited Date: 2011-10-11 07:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-10-11 08:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joonscribble.livejournal.com
I so want to see him come back and rip Dean apart. And I'm not even joking when I say that anymore.

Yeah, remember the days when a dead Winchester was a bad thing? You know, back when it seemed like dead Winchesters would actually REMAIN DEAD?

Date: 2011-10-12 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] feikoi.livejournal.com
Off-topic, but I love your icon. (TBH, I haven't watched more than the first five eps -- I'm in it for the bigbang fics, lol)

Date: 2011-10-11 08:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynvala.livejournal.com
It was definitely Amy Pond. The shit of it is, I was loving this episode right up until the last 10 minutes.

I've had to stop watching. I'm not angry, like I was with Smallville, I'm just sad and worn out. But when I look back, I always had issues and reservations that I had to force myself to overlook. I just can't overlook them anymore.

Date: 2011-10-11 08:27 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Yes - I was neutral about the ep, but then near the end, when Sam let her go, and it looked like they were leaving - I was genuinely astonished that the show had maybe, actually stepped in a bit of morality by mistake. And then...!

I entirely see your sad exhaustion. I'd feel it myself if I had any respect for the show left, but I lost it seasons ago. But really, yeah, quitting it is the only way to win!

Date: 2011-10-11 08:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynvala.livejournal.com
I had still had hope, for some foolish reason. I don't give up easily I suppose.

It's really too bad they go so far out of their way to be so massively, consistently, horrid.

Date: 2011-10-11 08:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rosalui.livejournal.com
Lol. I sort of adore SPN - I used to watch, like, Xena, I can adore things that I'm attached to for all their WTF plotlines - and I can deal with cheesy/crazy/whatever.

But the way the women on the show get dealt with has always bothered me. I haven't watched this last episode yet, but I bet it'll bother me too - and seriously, as much as I love deep, messed-up characters who are forced to make decisions within the grey area? Yeah, they're definitely taking it too far here.

....And borderline plagiarizing, like, the Moff and Gillan cannot be too happy about what they just did.

Ew.

Date: 2011-10-11 08:31 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
(Aww, hee - I only just saw Xena for the first time in the last couple years, and to be honest I absolutely loved it - it was ridiculously OTT and cheesy and it did some stuff I maybe wished it hadn't, but I loved it and loved the chars and whenever it lost me it always managed to win me back. I'd love another Xena on the air now...)

...anyway, yeah...SPN should be just crazy stupid fun, but too often they slide into crazy BLLEEEERGH DO NOT WANT. And the morality is so icky that while sometimes it makes me laugh from the stupidity, sometimes it just grosses me out, even more than the blood and gore.

(The Amy Pond thing wasn't plagiarism - they just took the name, no character elements - so it was really just a little in-joke reference. But it turned into a spitefully cruel one, and I don't know why...)

Date: 2011-10-11 08:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rosalui.livejournal.com
Plagiarism wasn't exactly the right word - more like exploitation? Blatant referencing under circumstances that were less than ideal? IDK.

XENA WAS AWESOME. I watched it when it was originally on TV, back when I was about 7 years old. :3 It was ridic, but Lucy Lawless's utter BAMFness carried the show.

Date: 2011-10-11 09:01 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Yeah, whatever the Amy Pond thing was, it wasn't right.

And Lucy Lawless is made of awesome - she totally made that show, in the best way! ^_^

Date: 2011-10-11 09:26 am (UTC)
ext_2027: (Default)
From: [identity profile] astridv.livejournal.com
lol wow. Okay this isn't the least bit funny but this: When I said, "Oh, Dean gets to stab Jewel Staite!" I WAS FUCKING KIDDING. made me laugh in spite of me... it's just so grotesque. I mean, you couldn't make this shit up.

I dropped the show at the beginning of season three because of its issues but it seems like the issues have grown into ISSUES!!!1! I'm seriously wondering, are the writers consciously trying to be as offensive as the possibly can, or are they having some big-ass blind spots?

My policy toward SPN has been to ignore as a whole and just cherry-pick the occasional crack ep when the friends list recommends it... more fun that way.

Date: 2011-10-11 10:05 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (Default)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
...that bit about Dean stabbing JS was actually what I said when I saw the previews last week and realized she was going to be in it. I should've known better than to joke about it. Now I feel icky >.<

I'm seriously wondering, are the writers consciously trying to be as offensive as the possibly can, or are they having some big-ass blind spots?

I've been asking this for a couple of years now. Because seriously...those are some GARGANTUAN blind spots. It makes so much more sense if they're doing it deliberately (SPN's head writer is a woman, even. WTFBBQ?!?!?)

My policy toward SPN has been to ignore as a whole and just cherry-pick the occasional crack ep when the friends list recommends it... more fun that way.

DEFINITELY the best way to watch! The crack is amazing, but the rest of it...holy moly. (Though it can be fun if you get in the mood to scream at your TV...!)

Date: 2011-10-11 12:15 pm (UTC)
ext_2410: (Aha!)
From: [identity profile] kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com
I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion ;) The focus of this season is to delve more deeply into the mental issues haunting the Winchesters. Unlike before, when they could kill the bad guy or end the spell, these are real-life issues that they have to deal with and learn to work through.

Sam's mental instability (hallucinations) isn't going to go away, he just has to learn to cope with it and deal with it in the best way he knows how (though using pain as a touchpoint is not healthy). He's not okay, but he's trying to live through the complicated combination of who he is now and what that means.

From Dean's side of things, his depression and alcoholism reached such a point that he has to break. All the issues that have been weighing on Dean's shoulders his entire life has finally broken him. The big tipping point, and the reason he's in the headspace he is at the end of this ep, is the broken trust. He went from being a hunter who saw only black and white, good and evil, to trusting other beings to sometimes be good (Lenore and Cas, for example), but that trust got blown out of the water when Cas turned, so he's shut down. He's back to his "supernatural creatures are evil, kill them" mindset with no room for change. He is shutting down and he's on a path of self-destruction.

I highly commend SPN for tackling these types of issues this season (and for having the thread of Dean's disintegrating mental state since he got back from Hell in Season 4). This isn't an easily won battle, but one that they're confronting the best way they know.

Date: 2011-10-11 09:12 pm (UTC)
ext_3572: (omg yikes)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Ehh, I don't mind the show going dark-side. I mind "dark-side" equaling "Dean stabbing women." It speaks to some pathology in the writers' minds, that this is the evil they want to see. That they want to graphically portray on their TV show. Repeatedly (and not just killed but almost always stabbed, which is such a Freudian thing...)

If the ep had had Dean killing a kid-monster (say, her son rather than her) that would've disturbed me less - it would have been even more horrific and dark; but it wouldn't have had the misogynist connotations of "our hero" sticking it to yet another dame.

Date: 2011-10-11 01:08 pm (UTC)
ext_9839: Yuko (Default)
From: [identity profile] lukita.livejournal.com
U_U SPN, I sorta had to quit it back in early S2 cause I got bored, then Misha came on and I just youtube the crack or watch whichever episodes with the highest crack content.

Date: 2011-10-11 09:14 pm (UTC)
ext_3572: (wtf wings)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
You are wise in the ways of TV! (the season premiere had some epic crack/Misha, if you haven't seen it yet; but otherwise, yeah!)

Who's Amy Pond?

Date: 2011-10-11 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cookiemom6067.livejournal.com
I'm sorry - what's the significance of Jewel's character's name?

ETA: Sorry. Note to self: "IMDB is your friend. So is Google."
Edited Date: 2011-10-11 01:15 pm (UTC)

Re: Who's Amy Pond?

Date: 2011-10-11 09:15 pm (UTC)
ext_3572: (doctor 3-d)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Yup, it's a Doctor Who reference - and considering Who's been aired over here, and how popular it is with the scifi crowd, I know it was deliberate! (But why'd they have to kill her?!)

Date: 2011-10-11 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stitcher2ficcer.livejournal.com
Geez, the more you've talked about this show in the past year or two the more glad I've been that I let it drop from my routine after third season. I had already begun to feel by then that it wasn't worth my time, but at least I didn't feel as though I had wasted dozens of hours watching unsatisfying and steadily deteriorating TV in hopes that it would eventually turn around and aspire again to the level at which it had started.

Given this last, how can you not cut your losses and move on to something new?

Date: 2011-10-11 09:24 pm (UTC)
ext_3572: (wormholes suck)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
*laughs* But I'm not hoping it will get better - I haven't been hoping that for years! The reason I dropped shows like Lost is not just because they were annoying me but because they bored me - SPN can irritate, but it's rarely boring (outrage gets the blood moving.) And really, it falls on the "so bad it's good" side of the tracks more often than not...plus I am genuinely fascinated by how awful it is (not to mention the window it provides into the writers' disturbed psyches!)

Date: 2011-10-11 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calcitrix.livejournal.com
I never watched it, but I can tell a show is completely batshit insane by the works that show up on the popular page at deviantArt* and the occasional LJ explosions when someone rants on a comm about some fic or other. But I didn't know it was this terrible. :/ I'm glad it's terrible for you in an entertaining way.

*By which I mean dress-up Sam/Dean paperdolls, checklists of how you can tell you're obsessed with Sam/Dean, Dean's fake Facebook page, drawings of just Sam's hair by season, and manips of them in dishes of food (????).

Date: 2011-10-12 10:24 am (UTC)
ext_3572: (flight)
From: [identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com
Ahahahah funny 'cuz it's true! Well, I know of a few awesome series with batshit fandoms - but SPN is kind of in a class by itself, yeah. And the canon feeds off the fandom (more directly than most, not just TPTB but in-show - such as a Wincest fangirl being minor character in the show. There's an ep where they find out they have a fanbase writing slash about them - "Don't they know we're brothers?" "I don't think they care!")

(This is a big part of why I'm still watching. Not only is it terrible, it is CRACK in every possible way...)

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