more on Fringe

[xparrot]

Up to 3x10 on Fringe and yes, it's true, this show definitely moves into a higher gear, starting midway through s2. I admit to feeling the twinges of genuine squee. It's odd, too, that a show so terrible with science (though that's enjoyably moved more into the established comic book mad science realm of ridiculous metaphors and established MacGuffins) and geography (it's become clear that in the Fringe universe(s) Boston is in fact a suburb of NYC, or possibly vice versa) is surprisingly good with characters and relationships - in spite of the absurd circumstances they act like actual real adult people. A recent ep especially impressed me by doing what I've almost never seen done in TV: one of the heroes, rather than trying to keep a very difficult secret, actually stepped up and told the truth without delay or prevarication, fully knowing the damage it would inevitably cause. Honesty! On a TV show! Astonishing!

So, yeah, so far season 3 has been the most solid the show's had, really excellent drama that's had me screaming at the TV in the best way. Especially all the stuff with Peter & Olivia & Altlivia - I wasn't entirely trusting of how they'd handle it, but so far they've done a great job. Peter/Olivia was built slowly and solidly enough that by the time of the s2 finale I was behind it, so the beginning of s3 was really stressful and painful and wonderfully dramatic. On principle I tend to hate drawing out UST and doing ridiculous stunts to prolong it, but in this case it's so understandable. That Peter didn't realize the switch just makes so much sense, between them first getting together (and Olivia is different in a relationship; when she's with John Scott in the pilot is about as relaxed and happy as we ever see her) and Altlivia's very reasonable explanation of seeing the world in a new light after being on the other side - and she wasn't a shapeshifter either; she actually was Olivia, if not his Olivia. At the same time, that neither Olivia nor Peter himself can forgive him for not realizing it is so painfully emotionally true.

(It puts me to mind of s3 Farscape; very different situation, but there are parallels?)

Also it must be said, Peter does guilt-ridden tearful puppydog eyes so very well. *cough* (I think I am just predisposed to like any char named "Peter". I blame Dr. V. :P)

Also gotta admit that Anna Torv does a great job with the different Olivia's, making them subtly different people, Altlivia's more ready smile and general expressiveness in contrast to Olivia's tight-to-breaking-point control. I am still not entirely sure how I feel about Olivia as a character, but I do love how much ass she can kick, especially when her back's to the wall. Never take Olivia Dunham for a damsel in distress, no matter what you've done to her. You're liable to lose limbs!

But the plot - yeah, I really loved that Peter just bit the bullet and told Olivia what had happened, at pretty much the first opportunity. One of the bravest things I've ever seen a TV char do. Particularly in light of, as Walter underlined, Peter's own history with secrets kept from him. Which situation was also very well done, nicely built throughout season 2, the increasing pressure of Walter's secret, and Olivia's reveal, and the full story in "Peter", which is better and worse than expected. That Walter honestly didn't intend to go as far as he did, the way the snowballing circumstances inevitably led to him stealing a child and starting a war between worlds - it's hard not to sympathize. And it's so clear, too, why Walter doesn't tell Peter, why Olivia doesn't break that confidence, for all it deeply bothers her to keep it, for all that they know it's wrong, and that things might've gone so much better if Peter had been told, rather than figuring it out on his own. But Walter's fears, and Olivia's, are so human that even watching from the outside objective position it's hard to believe that you'd have done any differently, in the same situation. And Peter's anger is equally sympathetic (though his "You're not my father" - owwww. Also made me snrrk for being more literally true than such a line usually is, and yet not at all...)

The Peter & Olivia-vs-Altlivia situation does seem to be having a positive effect on Peter & Walter's relationship, in that Peter's so worked up about the former that he's more-or-less forgotten his resentment of Walter? Well, and getting saved from the other universe helped. ...Though I'm still not convinced that the crazy Observer machine would actually kill Peter? The picture seems unclear. I really want to know what Walternate believes it would do - whether he thinks Peter could survive it or not would make it clearer where he actually stands on the "crazy vs evil" axis.

I really like that the AltU isn't actually the evil universe; they've got it rougher and act accordingly, but they're still basically the same people. Even the shapeshifters aren't all bad, in spite of their programming. Gotta love sympathetic antagonists, so much more interesting than straightforward power-mad sadistic conspiracies. And the universe itself is a blast - I always love AUs, and I love how much fun they've been having with this one (even if it does give me a headache if I try to think about it - so they have more advanced tech, but still use zeppelins? And most of their celebrities and politicians are different, but everyone still has the exact same names, not to mention DNA? And Walternate has a tank in his old Harvard lab in the same place, even though he never studied Cortexaphan or most of the AU tech? Riiiiight...) Like what they've done with Charlie - his and Olivia's partnership is lovely on either side (m-f platonic friendship ftw!) and it was almost worth killing him for the enjoyment of having him back! And the color-coded openings are awesome. (If not as awesome as the '80s style opening in "Peter". That was ~~amazing~~!)(Also the "Brown Betty" faux noir ep - I would watch an entire TV show in that setting. I love any show that uses a silly excuse to put its cast in fedoras and trenchcoats, but Fringe's warped fairy-tale was marvelous.)

And while I'm squeeing - Leonard Nimoy! <333 (Walter & William Bell = comedy gold!)

This isn't to say the show is perfect. Putting aside the science and geography glitches, it still has moments where it overreaches and tries to be more clever or meaningful than it can pull off. And it sometimes has the usual TV habit of forgetting things that aren't pertinent to its current plot. Also the writers put some weird fetishes on display - not just what they find entertainingly horrific (yes, open brains are gross, we get it) but also things they like seeing (uhh so how do you prefer your heroine, tied down, drugged, or helpless in water? How about all 3?) And Olivia's character sometimes feels like...ahhh, I am not sure how to put it. Like she needs more women writing her? She doesn't always come across as quite convincingly human...and some of that is deliberate, part of her character; but some of it I think is unintentional. (Like, I love her with her sister and niece, but I would like to see more of it, rather than mentioned as an afterthought? Or other female-female interaction, other than verbal sparring with Nina.)(Speaking of Nina, what happened with her and Broyles? That seems to be one of those forgotten threads...)

And then there is Astrid...oh, poor Astrid. I love Astrid and her awesome hair but it's almost like some cruel running gag, that in the first season they just forgot to flesh out her character, and then they kept it up for the sake of tradition? We've known Astrid for 2 1/2 seasons and the sum total knowledge of her character I've gathered is: 1) she lives in Somerville, 2) she collects butterflies but hates moths, 3) Stegosaurus is her favorite dinosaur, 4) she can do computers, codes, and cyphers when the plot demands it. And she is unbelievably supportive of Walter, Olivia, and Peter. Whether they actually count as friends is kind of unclear, since we don't ever see them doing anything for her; but then she never seems to need anything for herself, so maybe it works out. If she has any other friends, or a boyfriend or girlfriend or family or a pet cat or a potted schefflera, it has never come up, as far as I can recall. I keep hoping that someday she'll get an ep of her own, but so far...(Altstrid has gotten far less screentime and still has about as much of a char - she seems to be autistic-spectrum?)

But while the science is ridiculous and the plots often predictable, I only recall one ep that actually had me snarling at the screen (in s2, "Johari Window", with the genetically deformed experiment victims who were forced into ashamed hiding rather than being offered surgery or gene therapy or any other way to integrate into regular society), and quite a few others that have surprised me with clever turns. And the relationships are well done (am hoping they keep that up - show, now that you have won my fangirl heart over to Peter/Olivia, you better realize you can't renege. I am liking what you're doing with it so far, but be warned, I will only endure shenanigans for so long...)

Looking forward to seeing where the second half of s3 and s4 goes. I imagine we'll be getting back to the Altverse sooner or later (if minus Broyles in the black t-shirt, sigh) and then they just have to find a way to save both sides, because destroying either universe is obviously unthinkable - especially if Altlivia comes around to that idea, then it won't happen, whatever Walternate tries - Olivia and Altlivia working together could save just about anything...!

Comments

[sholio]

in s2, "Johari Window", with the genetically deformed experiment victims who were forced into ashamed hiding rather than being offered surgery or gene therapy or any other way to integrate into regular society

Aaaaghhhhh, yes, I hated that episode SOOOOO much. The whole running thread of "being deformed is the WORST THING POSSIBLE" and the parents who are willing to turn their whole society into a dystopia rather than have children who are ugly ... if it had been something like, say, a fatal condition, I could've accepted it (if none of their children would live to their 12th birthday, say), but it was totally aesthetic and probably even fixable to some extent with surgery and such. The whole episode just disgusted me.

... and that episode was particularly annoying because Fringe is actually one of the better shows out there, at least I think so, in its portrayal of mental disability! I really love how they handle Walter's mental illness -- the way the other characters are so careful with him, and give him all the accommodations that he needs, even when they think that it's something which is silly or bizarre or pointless. And I love, too, the way that his condition pervades every area of his life, and makes him incapable of functioning without a caregiver. They just do a really good job with it. (Even if the science behind it is typically handwavy and implausible. Oh, Fringe.)

(If not as awesome as the '80s style opening in "Peter". That was ~~amazing~~!)

Best credits ever, y/y? It's too bad we only got to see them once, rather than alternating the way they do with the different credits for the different universes. (Hence the fandom designating the two universes as the Redverse and Blueverse. *g*)

All the characters do such a marvelous job with their alternate-universe counterparts! I was incredibly impressed with Anna Torv's ability to show you which Olivia she is, including Olivias pretending to be other Olivias, just by the way she holds her face. And John Noble is absolutely brilliant...

...surprisingly good with characters and relationships - in spite of the absurd circumstances they act like actual real adult people.

*nods* I think one of the main reasons why Fringe succeeds for me so well, despite the ridiculous science and sometimes ridiculous plots, is because they focus on this small group of characters and explore their slowly evolving relationships in a really satisfying way. (Except for Astrid. Poor neglected Astrid.) They have a large enough cast that it's not as claustrophobic as Supernatural, which ran out of new things to do to the Winchesters somewhere back around season two, but it's small enough that they can really focus on their characters and devote a lot of time and attention to drawing out their relationships over seasons-long arcs. Peter and Walter's relationship, in particular, is wonderful and it hits my squee buttons so very hard -- I love them partly just for being so atypical and completely unlike any normal father-son dynamic, and I also love them because, in spite of all the heartache and resentment separating them, you can see how much they love each other and every so often it breaks through to the surface.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Actually one of the things that bothered me most about the Johari Window ep was that we only saw ONE kid in the town - maybe there were others, but they weren't mentioned or seen? So the kid is apparently all alone in a 2K person town with no one else his age - of course he wants to run away! That's practically child abuse, keeping him there. Argh >.>

...But it was only one ep, so I can let it slide. The show's not Supernatural! XP

And yeah, they do a good job with Walter's condition - he's a genuine mad scientist, but the 'mad' part isn't just played for laughs (...not as much as the 'science'!)

All the characters do such a marvelous job with their alternate-universe counterparts! I was incredibly impressed with Anna Torv's ability to show you which Olivia she is, including Olivias pretending to be other Olivias, just by the way she holds her face. And John Noble is absolutely brilliant...

Yes - Olivia is so controlled that it was hard to get a handle on Anna Torv until she's being someone else - but then she is convincingly someone else! John Noble as well - I loved the part in the ep where they plugged Walter back into his missing bits of brain (...oh show...) and he became the old Walter Bishop, bearing and voice and everything - and Walternate channels the same. It's very effective (and makes you appreciate that Walter is in most respects the better man now...)

(I find it interesting that many of the criticisms Walter lays on William Bell seem like they might apply more to his old self or Walternate, from what we see of Bell, but Walter is transferring...)

one of the main reasons why Fringe succeeds for me so well, despite the ridiculous science and sometimes ridiculous plots, is because they focus on this small group of characters and explore their slowly evolving relationships in a really satisfying way. (Except for Astrid. Poor neglected Astrid.) They have a large enough cast that it's not as claustrophobic as Supernatural

Yes to all of this! (Including Astrid, oh, poor Astrid...) They have a larger supporting cast than SPN, which helps - both in developing the chars, and in developing the core relationships, because you get to see how, say, Walter & Peter function in the context of dealing with Broyles, or Astrid. I think it also helps that the relationships are more atypical, like you say - Walter & Peter especially, who have a dynamic that defies any standard definition. The son-as-caretaker is unusual anyway, but with the AU aspect...and yeah, the moments that the love comes through are beautiful.

(That being said, I admit to craving more Peter-hurt. Which he's pretty good at already - he's the obvious choice, since it has the max effect on both Walter and Olivia - but still, yes, gimme my h/c...!)

[sholio]

loved the part in the ep where they plugged Walter back into his missing bits of brain (...oh show...) and he became the old Walter Bishop, bearing and voice and everything

Oh man, I know -- leaving aside the "science" of it, he did such an amaaaazing job at shifting to his other self in that episode ... and at that point, you don't really know how evil Walter used to be (I remember at that poin in the series thinking that he was a lot more of a flat-out bad guy in his youth than he turned out to be), so it's really spine-tingling chilling, too, when you see him switch gears like that, and wonder if we've just lost the "new", sympathetic Walter ...

I think it also helps that the relationships are more atypical, like you say - Walter & Peter especially, who have a dynamic that defies any standard definition. The son-as-caretaker is unusual anyway, but with the AU aspect...and yeah, the moments that the love comes through are beautiful.

Yes! I have realized over the years that one of my bulletproof narrative kinks is "relationships that defy categorization" -- characters who either can't be pinned down to ANYTHING in the standard set of society-approved relationships, or at the very least, perform them in a way that is really different from the social norm. And Walter and Peter hit that exactly. Their inverted power dynamic, plus their twisty and deeply complex history, plus Peter's powerfully mixed feelings towards Walter, and then add Walternate into the mix ... *heartflutter*

... I think this is one of the reasons I'm enjoying Homestuck so much, too! Not just the troll shipping quadrants, but also the human characters as well -- the slipperiness of their relationships, the way some of them have had to reconcile their adolescent flirting with the discovery that they're related, and some have turned out to have different sexualities or genders in their alt!versions (while still having a similar dynamic with each other as the original opposite-sex pairs) ... it just totally hits that kink as well.

[jlvsclrk.livejournal.com]

I always liked Fringe and for a while there it was perhaps my favorite show on TV. Peter, Walter and Astrid are my favorite characters - like you, I have some problems with Olivia. It's a great performance but something just feels off in the writing. I never know if she's Superwoman or a scared little girl.

I think you might, like me, have problems with the start of S4 - but hold in there: it gets good again.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

like you, I have some problems with Olivia. It's a great performance but something just feels off in the writing. I never know if she's Superwoman or a scared little girl.

Yeah, that's kind of it...and sometimes it works - her badassery is awesome, and sometimes her breakdowns are understandable and humanize her; but sometimes they seem...gratuitous? (also it irritated me that her superpowers are triggered by fear, that she's *supposed* to become a scared little girl again to save the world. I just can't imagine doing that arc with a male hero...)

So far s3 has been a roller coaster, so am very curious about s4! But glad to hear the reassurances...