on Mass Effect, redux

[xparrot]

So I beat ME3 a few days ago. And then at the advice of sheliana and others I got the Citadel DLC and played that (thank you SO MUCH for the rec, it's amazing, epic fanservice in the best of ways!) And now I'm out of Mass Effect to play! Other than the other DLCs, but some of those (From Ashes, at least) seem to require replaying pretty much the whole game, so...maybe later.

For now - a lot (LOT!) more squee and rambling under the cut. Unlike last post this will be spoilerific for all three games, so I advise you don't read unless you've played them already or are absolutely sure you never will - otherwise I strongly recommend playing unspoiled.

I went into them largely unspoiled myself, though I did have random knowledge picked up from overhearing discussions from my brother, Gnine, and friends. I knew the ending massively disappointed everyone (and yet everyone said the games were worth playing anyway, which was quite a point in their favor), that the main enemies were called Reapers, that Wrex and Garrus were favorite characters and I'd probably like them too, and that somewhere along the line I would meet a Rachni Queen and would choose not to kill her because no one ever does.

I'd managed to avoid most of the major spoilers, though, which made the whole experience that much more fun. One of the best parts of the games, as doctorskuld said in the last comments, is that they're not trying to do anything super-original; instead they're space opera that plays as a homage and love letter to some of the best of the genre. It makes the universe feel familiar, but it draws on so many influences that nothing feels directly ripped off or imitated.

And occasionally it uses that familiarity to play with the player. One of my favorite things, and maybe the most original plotline in the trilogy, is the reveal in the first game about who really built the Mass Relays and the Citadel, and what they're really for. It plays on your genre expectations so beautifully - the remnant technologies of some past great civilization are such a staple of the genre that I never thought to question it. Of course the Protheans would leave behind a perfectly working space station! Just like SG's Ancients left behind stargates and Atlantis, and the Pak Protectors made the Ringworld. Those ancient civilizations just built them to last! ...and then, no, there's a reason how the Citadel survived 50,000 years untended - IT'S A TRAP. And the Protheans weren't some all-knowing super-race, but simply the last victims. I love how all through the ME galaxy you scan planets that mention showing signs of long-lost civilizations, wiped out thousands and millions of years before, and there's no real clues of how or why...these things just happen, apparently. At least when you live in a universe with Reapers.

The Reapers are awesome in themselves. Going in I knew they were the main enemies, but I didn't actually know what they were. I knew what sound their ships makes, thanks to gnine's obsession with certain types of spooky ships (she reacts to Reapers the same way as to B5's Shadow ships :P) I didn't realize that the Reapers WERE the ships - the scene in the first game when you first meet Sovereign face to, erm, ship-hologram, was the first time the games really made me sit up and take notice. It was a shock to me as much as to the characters (that's maybe the first time in the game that the usually unflappable Garrus gets flapped, and I felt it with him, even if Shepard, as usual, took it in stride!)

The first game may have the best plot of the trilogy; the reveals have the biggest impact. Some of that is because the universe is new to you then, and it's when everything gets set up to be played out in the next games. On the other hand, the gameplay itself is the clunkiest, and the characters aren't nearly as developed.

But ME is one of those series that gets better and more satisfying as it goes along. The second game is the weakest in plot, but that's because the character stuff that is more atmosphere in the first game is front and center in the second; the plot becomes mostly incidental to the people, which, given the choice, is how I prefer my stories. While I liked most of the characters in the first game, the second game is when I really fell for everyone.

I love how pretty much all the characters play on your expectations, are not what you assume. I was excited to get Mordin anyway (I fell for the salarians in the first game - even before I found out they're all aromantic - they're just so funny and sweet and probably the least racist species, at least compared to turians and asari and humans. I saved the Council because I couldn't let a salarian get killed, not after seeing all the terrible things done to them on Virmire! - and so was thrilled when the brother mentioned I could get one on my team) but I didn't expect to love him as much as I did, and not only for the Gilbert & Sullivan (I actually missed getting the Mordin sex-talk because I was always going to talk to Mordin first thing, so ended up flirting with him instead...though flirting is all you can do, since, yeah, aromantic. Sigh! Well, as the brother says, we all have our white whale. He wants to romance Wrex, and Gnine would romance an elcor if she could. Or at least she wants one on her team XD)(I was amused that in the third game, on the Citadel you see several different pairs of human women with male salarians - just friends, presumably.)

Then Grunt - I really enjoyed Wrex in the first game and wasn't sure about getting a new krogan, but awwww, my cute little Grunt! (okay, not little, and cute only by a certain metric that somehow included krogan, but! a precocious genius krogan teenager, what's not to love! "I found out I hate turians! I thought you'd be happy for me!" Oh Grunt!) And Thane is one of the few examples I've seen of a sexy male alien - he's very alien but also attractive by human standards (not that Garrus isn't awesome to look at, but turians are more pretty like a bird of prey than hot.) If I hadn't been getting it on with Garrus I would have been really curious how the romance with Thane plays out, he intrigues me.

Tali is so cute- she's my girl, after Garrus she was probably my most frequent squadmate. Which leads to some awesome lines, as by the end she's as snarky as he is. And in the Citadel DLC she turns out to be a fangirl, no wonder we got along so well! (that little scene is actually really sweet, it's fun and funny and true to fanning.) Though I ended up surprised by Liara - I didn't think I'd like her as much as I did, but in the first game she's just hopelessly adorable, and then her transformation into the Shadow Broker totally took me off-guard. If/when I replay the games I might do the full romance with her (I hooked up with her in the first game, though that causes this weird discomfort because on the one hand, she's a century old, but on the other hand she's so obviously a teenager in love for the first time, you feel kind of like you're taking advantage, especially when you know you're going to be romancing someone else later...and then you remind yourself it's a video game, but still...!)

Samara is intriguing, but her sexy superhero costume drove me nuts - the superhero part is only apropos for a justicar, but the sexy part makes zero sense given her character, and distracted me negatively in every conversation. The asari walk a fine line between interesting aliens and obvious fetish material. In part because they make so little sense - why do they look so human? Why does every species lust after them - yet no other species seems to find human women so attractive? At one point in the second game there's a background conversation that implies that asari look different to everyone who sees them, Vorlon-style, which given their telepathic abilities seems plausible. It doesn't explain the look of their statues or the asari VIs, but eh, I'm still going to headcanon their true form as bipedal blue squids (who can squeeze into human armor in a pinch.)

And of course there's Garrus! who like I said I knew was going to be my favorite going in, and he did not disappoint. He's got that irresistible blend of snark and ego and attitude and angst. And also adorable when flustered, making the romance with him a thing of epic beauty (fortunately Shepard agrees...) He's like Illya Kuryakin in that he's a whiny badass - which is totally a type, though I'm having trouble thinking of other examples. But they're the kind of character who will whine and complain about hangnails and the cold, but will be wisecracking and back in action a day after taking a rocket to the face. Also he does that thing where he comes across as so cool and then the more you get to know him the more obvious it becomes that he's trying way too hard, and only can pull it off because he actually is almost as good as he thinks he is. (and I love his combat dialog in ME2, "Never saw me comin'!" the cocky bastard.)

Is that everyone? ...oh yeah, there's some humans. Um, apologies to their fans, but I found the human characters mostly uninteresting compared to the aliens, at least until the third game - James, Cortez and Traynor are all fun. But otherwise, yeah, they're...there? Except for Anderson, by virtue of his voice (Keith David still has the sexiest voice of any English-speaking VA, that's just scientific fact.) --And Joker of course, but that goes without saying! I started shipping him and EDI back in the second game when she was pulling his pigtails and he was too irritated to realize she had a massive crush. I had no idea she got a body until she did, and I couldn't get worked up about the sex-bot angle because - EDI and Joker! I so wanted to marry them, as ship's captain.

Speaking of my ship - after so long watching Star Trek and Star Wars and the rest, having the Normandy was one of my favorite things. Most things in the game, my pronouns get confusing - when talking about Shepard's actions, I tend to switch between "I" "you" "she" and "they", at random and sometimes mid-sentence. But the Normandy was always MY ship. ...especially at the beginning of the second game, where I was shouting MY SHIP! THOSE BASTARDS BLEW UP MY SHIP! at the screen for about fifteen minutes. Killing me is one thing. But my ship!!!

If the first game is strongest on plot and the second game is all about character, then the third game is mostly the best of both worlds. The plot is majorly ramped up from the second, and if it lacks the gripping reveals of the first game, its core of solving problems and bringing the whole galaxy together against the Reaper threat is so epic and appealing. And then the character elements are fantastic. Seeing your crew interact with one another, being a real team, is so satisfying. My favorite such conversation (other than the Citadel DLC) might have been after Thessia's fall, you come across Tali talking with Garrus about how to comfort Liara, and it's so sweet and team-y. The Normandy crew are such nakama! (...I got as far as Mordin = Brook, Garrus = Sanji and Liara = Robin before the brother shouted me down. ...though Zoro is obviously one of the krogan...)

Then there's the end. The brother wanted me to play the original version, but due to a miscalculation (he hadn't realized the extended cut DLC was already downloaded, and hadn't played it himself so didn't recognize it until it was too late) I got the extended cut. Which wasn't nearly as bad as I was braced for. It wasn't a perfect ending, but it's not as outrageously frustrating as it could have been. They changed the part that most upset the brother, the destruction of the mass relays that pretty much destroys the universe we know. With the mass relays still around, the universe is fundamentally altered, but not lost.

As for Shepard's fate...I didn't have the score for the Shepard lives Destroy ending, and wouldn't have done it anyway, not at the expense of the Geth and EDI. I went with Synthesis - and now expect the sainthood Garrus promised me, since I made peace with the Reapers!

I admit that I don't get why all the endings are so final. In some ways it makes sense - Shepard is on the classic hero's journey, ending in transformation/apotheosis. But on the other hand the games usually give you the superhero option to save everybody, if you've done enough otherwise, and that it's never available for Shepard at the end seems really unfair. Especially since they also kill Anderson, and while as the mentor figure I was surprised he lasted as long as he did - to off him at the last minute, right before Shepard goes, ends up just seeming gratuitous. Either the mentor or the student is supposed to be sacrificed, not both.

Though really...I have a hard time buying Shepard is really gone. Considering they appear to die in both 1 and 2...nothing convinced me THIS death is actually going to take. (Cue Garrus channeling Jack O'Neill - "I'm not buying it! She's just waiting for us to say nice things about her!")

Putting that aside, in some ways I was more disappointed by the stuff leading up to the end. Not the starchild/Crucible conversations, really; I've seen enough anime not to expect truly shocking revelations in the finale of such an epic battle. But the Cerberus storyline never engaged me as much as the rest of the story of ME3, and its payoff wasn't that satisfying. The Illusive Man was fun in ME2 because you're trying to figure out his deal (he's so obviously a supervillain! He's got glowy cybernetic eyes, Martin Sheen's voice, and a dying sun as a backdrop to his office! and yet he's on your side...?) but as a straight-up villain there's not much there. Maybe he's got more backstory in the comic tie-ins or something? In the first game I found Saren genuinely compelling - while he may have been an asshole all along, there's something terribly tragic in how indoctrination twists his mind to think he's saving the galaxy - that Sovereign got to him through his best nature. But the Illusive Man's xenophobic humans-first attitude makes it difficult to ever sympathize. And Kai Leng is a weirdly flat nemesis - again, maybe he's got more character in the tie-ins; but in the game proper he's just an assassin who for some reason has it in for Shepard, and then he kills a friend or two of yours, and then you kill him. He was so uninspired that I'm really wondering if his backstory was originally that of the enemy in the Citadel DLC - considering that's also Cerberus creation, with a much more understandable grudge against Shepard. (...also perhaps a Vorkosigan reference, or maybe that was just me reading into it? Though I do think Vorkosigan might've influenced someone on the writing team.) As it was I spent most of the game calling him Bucky and insisting Cerberus had resurrected Kaidan (I knew he wasn't, since the sister played the games with Kaidan instead of Ashley; but I maintain it would've made more sense and been a better plot twist. Especially if they only hinted at it, but if Ashley were dead you get a female assassin instead...)

But those quibbles are trumped by how much I enjoyed the hell out of the rest of the games. Having finished the Citadel DLC - and oh, after all the hilarity, the very end with your crew looking at the Normandy and knowing they're never going to do this again together - you're meant to play that DLC after you've played the end, so you know how it's going to go, and it hits hard, and effectively. It's almost worth the end just for that gut-punch. (Which is what makes the end frustrating, because tragedy sometimes can work, and sometimes they pull it off in style. Mordin's death is so sad - it's the only thing in all the games that made me tear up* - but it's perfect, too, the atonement and sacrifice and rebirth. It's not gratuitous but necessary to the story. And they're going for something similarly affecting in the finale, but they don't quite make it.)
--Though at least the music is up to the challenge, I absolutely love this ending theme. ...Yeah, yeah, soft piano and rising strings will get me every single time.

* Okay I teared up over Grunt, too, but then that was a fake-out, and man it was marvelously done, too!

...aaaaand looking at that OST pic...playing femShep means I have doomed myself to a lifetime of looking at ME official art and going "But who's that guy--oh right." (especially since I made my armor look all awesome and matching with Garrus and Tali's black-and-gold look...)

Now that I have no more game to play, I'm finding myself looking up videos on youtube - of which there are a ton, and it's hilarious to see alternative conversations and things I somehow missed. (I'm mostly avoiding anything from DLC I haven't played.) And reading the comments, which are a blast - video game fans arguing is almost as good as comics fan rage. Especially when it's terrifically earnest arguments about the genophage that are pretty much exactly how they'd play out if it were all real.

...though I'm cranky about all the people insisting that the Destroy ending was the only right choice, that anything else is giving into the Reapers and the point was to destroy them - no, the point was to end the cycle, and both the Geth and EDI are proof that AIs are not fundamentally evil, nor incapable of co-existence; destroying all AIs just makes the Reapers' case, that it's us or them, and I refuse to believe it! Phooey on you, random youtube commenters :P

And then, inevitably...I make no promises about completing it, but I have 3K words and counting of post-game fic. As I have said so often before: Whoops.

Comments

[pink-dragon22.livejournal.com]

Yayyy! I'm so sorry- I only just saw your reply to my comment the other day. I apparently have to change my notification settings!
I'm so happy you did this post. If there's one thing I love, it's hearing people discuss their reactions to ME :)
I agree with you re the first game having the best plot- but oh wow every replay I do of the first game makes me hate the clunky combat even more.

I've never picked synthesis! I WANT to, and think I will on my next playthrough, but it's just the thought of altering EVERYONE without their consent that makes me hesitate each time.
I picked destroy once, and killing EDI was possibly the hardest decision I ever made in a game. I knew I had enough EMS for my Shep to live, so I LOVED that I had to pick between either Shep and Garrus getting to be together which would kill one of my best friends, or sacrificing myself and saving EDI & the Geth. I like that there isn't really an easy choice at the end, although I guess it could have been handled better. (On my 2nd playthrough of the whole series, the one with the extended cut, I accidentally chose the 'refusal' ending which I didn't even know was a thing, and then broke down crying once I realised what I'd done haha.)

I just felt so sorry for Shepard. She was used so much, first by the council, then by Cerberus, and then the Alliance- poor girl just never got a break. Then she died alone. Makes me sad, but at the same time I feel as if by the very end she was doing it for the ones she loved. In that last moment it had changed from 'save the galaxy' to 'save my friends and loved ones', which is why maybe why I'm okay with the endings.

Re the humans being boring- I thought that in my first playthrough. I didn't like either Kaiden or Ash in ME1, and saved him that first time. Didn't care about him throughout the next 2 games, although I like him enough now. 2nd playthrough I saved Ash and was surprised at how much I liked her? I found the times with her on the citadel in ME3 to be quite emotional, and maybe it's just because I have sisters but I really loved her family backstories. Other than Ash, Vega is my favourite human. Not including Joker & Anderson of course. Joker is amazing. I love Joker. But yes- generally speaking I found the other races to be much more interesting. I hope SO MUCH that we get more aliens on our team for ME4, and would love some new alien romances to be available. I think a lot of people are gunning for a krogan romance option so fingers crossed bioware will pull through on that one (they seem to be pretty good at listening to what fans want. Mostly!)

I wanted so badly to like Liara. I romanced her in the 1st game, was miffed by how she treated me in ME2 but was romancing Garrus by then anyway, but after that- I just felt bioware kept pushing her onto me. A lot of people think Liara is meant to be the 'canon' romance option and it's not hard to see why. I found it to be getting a bit ridiculous and by the end of ME3 I was like 'ok bioware, enough.' It's gotten to the point now where it's annoyed me so much that she's possibly my least favourite out of all the squadmates? Seemingly silly reason, I know. It just bugs me every time haha. Plus I have some issues with how the asari are portrayed as well, which is likely trickling down into my Liara dislike. (All that said, I know she is a fan favourite and don't ever think anyone is wrong for loving her!)

Tali is a beautiful cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure. And Garrus is my absolute favourite, I love his character growth and his dorkiness and I will always match my femshep armour to his. The turians fascinate me and I wish we had seen more female turians! (Hell, more females of any species tbh)

Do you think you will do another playthrough?

Um, sorry for the super long comment! I've had a lot of sugar and got excited about Mass Effect.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(Oh, no problem about the missed comment - I am unfortunately erratic about responding to comments myself, I miss notifications, or sometimes just think I've responded when I haven't. If ever I don't reply to something, I guarantee it's not because I'm offended or anything, just distracted ^^; And yay for long comments - I'm in active fanning mode now, so enjoy the excuse to natter on even more!)

I was thinking/talking more about the ending and I think what makes it feel so unfair is not just the choices, but how they're presented. Throughout the game, Shepard comes up against some terrible difficult decisions - but a lot of the times when they do they come up with some unconsidered new option, another way to go. Like with the Geth and the Quarians, if you play it right you can save both of them (...I hadn't actually realized that was in doubt but then I kept seeing people online complaining about it, so I must've done it the right way first off...) Occasionally you hit a decision with no other options - like the heretical Geth in the second game, and that was probably the decision I agonized over the most, because destruction and forcible conversion are both awful. But that was actually Legion's choice, that they passed on to you.

But at the end - it's a decision that directly involves Shepard's life, and the lives of Shepard's crew...and Shepard has nothing to offer? No suggestion to make to the Catalyst, except to say "yes" or "no"? That's frustrating gamewise and also OOC...

And yeah, Synthesis is awfully invasive...maybe? Even in the extended cut it's so unclear what it's actually doing, other than turning everyone green. (I'm actually trying to write a Synthesis future in my fic and am just baffled...) I just couldn't imagine my Shepard choosing to sacrifice EDI or the Geth (with Legion being dispersed among them), not when there was another option. (Having watched all the options on Youtube, Control looks really cool...but it was what the Illusive Man wanted, that can't be right! Though I've heard arguments that Synthesis is what Saren wanted. But it wasn't what he was getting...)

...I confess, I also watched the Refuse ending (on yt) and out of context it's bleakly hilarious. In-game and unexpected it would've been awful to get!

I saved Ash in my game, and didn't regret it (among other things I rather liked that the first two human Spectres were both ladies!) And I liked her family stories (I wish we could've seen her with her family!) But I never got attached to her, not like I did to most of the aliens. James I found surprisingly likable, he had a depth I wasn't expecting. And Joker is just <333!

Here's hoping for a krogan romance! It will make the brother's day, anyway...

As I said, I like Liara (and while I hadn't heard, it kind of makes sense, her as the 'canon romance' - primary canon? since it's all canon! - as she's the only option that works for either fShep or mShep). But she's no Garrus! Why would you romance anyone else, if you can get Garrus! :P

--And gaaah yes why no female turians? There's one in the Citadel DLC at least - but only there as flirtation material for Garrus. So frustrating. They did a good job with human women, and I didn't mind all the male salarians as the biology there makes sense and is kind of cool. But the asari are right on the edge of outrageous, and the mysteriously-all-male turians just annoy! In ME4 there better be a bunch of female turians.

As for another playthrough...probably not right now (I have things I need to do that didn't get done because game!) but I'd like to sometime - I played such total paragon, I'm curious about the renegade options (...well, some of them. I actually played out one of the Wrex-dies on Virmire because I was curious, and yowch, sociopathic Shep is scary!)

[pink-dragon22.livejournal.com]

Lol yeah the refusal ending SUCKED. I knew from ME1 that I was going to pick destroy, and as I was limping over towards the console thing I turned back and did a final 'fuck you, you little shit' and shot the starchild, and it scared the shit out of me when it came out with that deep reaper voice saying 'SO BE IT' lol.

Huh, I had never thought about the ending in that way before, and I definitely think you make some valid points. Shep always (well, usually) had a knack of pulling a solution out of the blue that no one thought would be possible, so I get that is frustrating that we didn't get that final crowning moment of glory at the end. That's interesting that you brought up the heretic geth choice in ME2- I'm not sure what way you went (I too agonized over that one!) but I was sorely disappointed with the outcomes of both choices. It felt like such a huge choice in the game, but it pretty much had zero effect on the game.

Lol I get what you mean about synthesis being vague- I can only think of one fanfic I've read where it was based on a synthesis ending and I remember liking how they addressed the change, but for the life of me can't remember the actual details! (It was way too long and way too many fics ago haha.) That said, I'd be interested to read your fic! :)

I honestly don't think any of the options are 'evil' or even 'better' than the others. I think the argument that synthesis is what Saren wanted is deeply flawed- I never felt synthesis was his end game? He never (as far as I recall anyway) mentions merging all organics and machines- it was my understanding that his belief was that by proving to the Reapers that organics could be useful and worthy, they could work alongside the Reapers and be spared indoctrination (which clearly didn't work as the increased time he spent with Sovereign allowed for him to indoctrinated anyway). Likewise, I despise the theory that by giving Shepard control over the reapers, she'll become godlike and ultimately become corrupted. I think the whole point of how it was what the Illusive Man wanted was just boiling down to the fact that he was too weak to do it himself. Now I don't know if that's because of the time he spent TRYING to do it and therefore allowing himself to become indoctrinated- maybe he would have been capable of it if it was thrust into his grasp like it was Shepard? Or maybe the writers wanted to continue on with the theme of Shepard is capable of doing things that no one else can.

Basically, I can understand why people hated the endings, but what I love about it is that no matter how someone felt about the end, they always praise the games themselves :)

Haha in my first playthrough, it wasn't until near the end of the game that I actually talked to James and Cortez! I just never went down to the docking bay (whoops) so had like zero interactions with them (which caused Cortez to die which was NOT COOL) so second time around I was amazed at how quickly I grew to love James.

Apparently in the Omega DLC there is at least one turian lady! With a name and everything! I've yet to play that one though, so I'm looking forward to it on my next run :)

I'm a total paragon too- even when I start out intending to be renegade I always end up being paragon anyway. Renegade Shep is just so ruthless and mean! (Plus, have you watched the renegade choice with Mordin on Tuchanka? I didn't it was possible for me to cry more at his death. Oh how wrong I was.) I did love love love the renegade prompts in the citadel dlc though!

Lol I agree- once I went Garrus, that was it for me. Part of me wants to romance Thane, but seriously, as soon as I see Garrus as Archangel I'm done for. Total goner :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ahhh you can get the refusal ending from shooting the Catalyst? That's kind of amazing...!

Yeah, I was disappointed that the heretical Geth choice didn't seem to do much later, I'd have expected it to have a significant impact. I chose conversion because it was possibly reversible, while as destroying them is permanent...I guess it foreshadows my final choice, in a way...!

I honestly don't think any of the options are 'evil' or even 'better' than the others.

Oh, yes, definitely, and that is one thing they did right - there shouldn't be a "right" ending, that's not the point, and that all the endings have their pluses and minuses is how it should be. Control I think is the one that feels the most wrong, mainly because it's what the Illusive Man wanted and what you spend time arguing out of - but then you could've played it so that you're not so opposed to him, and with the extended cut you can see it working (and it's really cool, too - I might like the extended cut Control end the best, not as any ending but just cinematically...) And I totally buy that Shepard's influence could master the Reapers as the Illusive Man's couldn't.

And yes, one of the reasons I wanted to play the games was because everyone I knew who played them disliked the ending - and yet they still all loved the games themselves, and if something is good enough not to be spoiled by an infuriating ending - it's worth checking out!

--Cortez can die? Ow! And he and James have marvelous dialogue all the way through (okay, I admit it, I love James at least partly because at one point you come across him and Cortez arguing the merits of the Mako vs the Hammerhead and James is championing the Mako, and since the Mako is the one thing from the first game that I spent all the rest of the games mourning and missing - I was so sad in the final mission, all these Mako around and you can't drive them - James, I'm in your camp!)

...is the renegade option with Mordin on Tuchanka when you shoot him? I haven't watched it, but I've heard of it...gaaah noooo....!

If (when) I play again, I'll probably be playing mShep, so Garrus will be my BFF instead - since I do love my platonic friendships as well, I'm curious how that goes (though from what I've seen it's not that different, even if not in love with you, Garrus still has your back no matter what!)

[sheliana.livejournal.com]

You'll be happy to know that the Mako will apparently make a comeback in ME4!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

w00t! \o/ (I just loved flinging myself up mountains so much!)

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

I have not heard anything about ME4, so I'm going to have to look up more deets.

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

I have way more to say, but I can't because I'm at work now. You've actually convinced naye to finally play ME, which makes me really happy because I've been trying to do that for 3 years now. Hooray! She's going through the first game, so I can't say any spoilers to her face , but....

...

I romanced Liara all the way through the games, and it turns out that she is in fact quite boring. I'm a little disappoint. :( She is really sweet and flustery in the first game, but her romance feels quite stereotypical and dull throughout the rest of the games.

My biggest regret in ME2 and ME3 is being all monoamourous and not dumping her and romancing Garrus instead. OMG, GARRUS. GARRUS. I am trying so hard to sell Naye on Garrus, and she is not buying it. She's playing an adept, so unfortunately her team is Tali and Ashley, so she doesn't really bring Garrus along with her unless I go, "Maybe you should take Garrus out for a spin." :(

On the other hand, he's not quite as fun and interesting in the first game, so I'm hoping that he'll grow on her in ME2. Because...GARRUS. His romance with Shep is the cutest thing in the universe.

I'll have more say on the ending later, since I didn't play through the Citadel DLC and only played the first and original and very frustration-inducing ending. Maybe I'll have time this weekend. :p

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yaaaaay she's playing it! I was hoping she would...need more fans (that are into it now, the problem is half my friends aren't gamers, and the half that are of course played it years ago!)

Aww about the Liara romance being boring. It's so cute in the first game, too! But I wouldn't have traded anything for the Garrus romance - it is so awesome. It's just hilarious all through ME2 (all his accidental innuendo, was dying & dying) and then in ME3 it's genuinely touching. I'm writing fic now and it's all Garrus and Garrus/Shepard's fault.

...And awww again to Naye not going for Garrus. He doesn't get much development in the first game though, yeah - I liked him from the start but he's my type of character, and also I really love the turian design (they look so cool!) so that was a draw. But I didn't really fall for him until the second game, when he gets some depth (and angst...it got to me, that of everyone he maybe takes Shepard's (first) death the hardest. Liara became the Shadow Broker's rival, but at least she didn't set herself up as a suicidal vigilante...!)

--you should tell Naye that Garrus is her type, he's a fangboy, after all! :P (turian teeth are scary~)

She's playing with Ashley, though? hah...I never played with the humans at all unless I had to. Picking my team was always agony in ME2 anyway, I wanted to bring everyone along! By ME3 I'd just accepted that I had to drag Garrus everywhere so I wouldn't miss any of his lines...

Even the extended ending is frustrating (moreso the more I think about it >.>) but not as rage-inducing, at least. And seriously, the Citadel DLC makes up for it. It makes up for everything, SO MUCH FANSERVICE!

Wish you guys were here to babble about this stuff in person! :D

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

Naye is really not buying the romances in the first game so far, which is super sad. I think she has already shut down Liara, because one of the conversation options during the flirting was "...but you're female!" (which she felt was homophobic) and the other two options were being with Kaidan or being taken. I'm starting to believe that she secretly wants to be with Kaidan, because he's kind of haplessly in love with FemShep.

I can't remember what your choice was, did you choose to save Ashley or Kaidan? I felt that Ashley's personal storyline ended up kind of boring, which was disappointing. I hear Kaidan is a much more interesting character, so I'm secretly hoping that Naye will save him.

I'm trying not to sell her too hard on Garrus for now, but it is sooooo hard because I LOVE GARRUS PLZ BE MY BOYFRENZ. I'm trying not to set up unachievable expectations here, since it is not until the 2nd game that he really gets the character development that he deserves. Not romancing Garrus is still my biggest regret, I was planning to replay ME2 to do that sometime in 2012… but then I didn't because I only had it on PC then. I might explode in tears if she chooses somebody else instead, like Jacob or Thane. Not that I don't like Thane, because he is FINE, but he isn't Garrus. OMG GARRUS.

I've watched scenes of the MaleShepxKaidan romance in ME3, and that totally hits one of my soft spots. Alas, ManShep is so boring I cannot bring myself to play through as him.

Anyhoos, more later, I am still at work! I now wanna jump back into Mass Effect fandom, I shall read what you have to write. TELL ME THERE WILL BE MUCH GARRUS.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Well, the romances in the first game aren't as developed either, so...though not going for Liara just because Shep potentially has a homophobic response isn't really fair, you can just not do that response? Shepard also can be ragingly xenophobic if you want to play them that way...

I saved Ashley because Kaidan annoyed me - I found him boring and didn't like that Shepard kept flirting with him even when I didn't want to be :P But I've heard from several people that he's more interesting than Ash in ME3, so I regret that a bit. I never disliked Ash but I never liked her that much, either (and she's pretty xenophobic to start with and doesn't really seem to get over that, at least she doesn't interact much with your alien teammates, or with any of your teammates, really.)

Not overselling Garrus is a good idea but omg SO HARD, I have so much sympathy, I would have to be biting my tongue all he time. ...I wonder how the second game will go for her, she might warm to him then, Garrus is cool from the start there...(my one regret, spoiler-wise, is that knowing Garrus came back in the second game, I was on the eagle-eyed lookout for him, and as soon as I saw Archangel's dossier I was like, "sniper, going vigilante, that sounds like someone I know!" and the brother confirmed it. But he said that when he played ME2 he had no idea Garrus was even coming back, so didn't guess it was Garrus until he heard that Archangel was turian, and I kind of wish I'd had that reveal.)(And then in that mission, I so wish you could see Garrus when he first sees Shepard on the bridge, because that must have been a shock but by the time you actually get up there he's had time to process and act all cool...)

...yeah I can talk about Garrus a lot :3 And yep, the fic I'm trying is from Garrus's POV, so it definitely has a lot of him (it's post-game, Synthesis ending fix-it and the mood is swinging wildly from angst to silly and also I'm making up stuff about turian politics, so I have no idea if it's working or is just going to be nonsense, but...I need to write something, I enjoyed this universe too much not to play in it!)

Gnine played mShep primarily so she could do the Kaidan/Shep romance - and then she ended up flubbing it somehow by resuming her romance with Tali, so she didn't get the m/m (though the Tali romance does look adorable.) If I play again (probably that should be when I play again) I might do a renegade mShep and just romance whoever feels right...

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

so...though not going for Liara just because Shep potentially has a homophobic response isn't really fair, you can just not do that response?

You can't, actually. You only have the following choices in that conversation:

1. But you're female!
2. I'm with Kaidan.
3. I'm taken.
4. TURNING DOWN LIARA.

:( I was disappoint that Naye didn't go for Liara, because I think that she might inadvertently walk into a Kaidan romance because apparently the game makes it easy to do that. XD

ETA:Yep, she just walked into a Kaidan romance. I vaguely remember being told that if you turn down Liara but don't explicitly turn down Kaidan before that then the conversation options basically force you into a Kaidan romance. This just happened. CONFIRMED. ...I'm hoping he'll score enough brownie points with her after their lay that she'll save him instead of Ashley because I do want to see him in ME3. *fingers crossed*

Kaidan is apparently way more interesting than Ash in ME3, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to tell Naye that when she has to make that choice, because I majorly regret saving Ash. I felt like she was way less useful to me in ME3 because of the rest of the crew that I already had backing me up. :/

Not overselling Garrus is SOOOOO HAAAAARRRRDDD I want to squeeeeee every time he says anything. D: GARRUS. GARRRRRRRUUUSSS. BLAHSFKJSDFKJ. I'm basically freaking out sometimes in the middle of my workday with Garrus squee in my head. I am totally biting my tongue ALL THE TIME watching Naye playing this game, because of everything that I'm noticing now on a second watch/playthrough (never noticed the other old civilization remnants before, which makes the whole Reaper cycle plot thing more obvious in hindsight than when I first played it right after ME3 came out). She doesn't know anything about how the rest of the games will go, so the opening of ME2 will be a huge surprise. Hell, all of ME2 will be a huge surprise. :p

I'm hoping that Naye will want to join us (and like, the rest of the female fandom of ME, because seriously we all LOOOVE GARRUS and Mordin) in our Garrus squee after she plays the games. I'm going to seriously cry if she chooses not to romance Garrus in ME2 and ME3, because that was seriously my only motivation for wanting to play through ME2 and ME3 again.

Oh no, Gnine ruined her Kaidan/Shep romance chances! Boo! I think there should be some vid up on Youtube somewhere where somebody's recorded their entire conversation tree... I just want to see it because the whole "friends for a long time falling in love with each other" thing is something that is sooooooo my soft spot. :p

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Awww I'd forgotten that was the choice tree there. Blergh that's annoying, I can see why Naye would've wanted to skip it :(

I am curious how Kaidan is like in ME3, everyone in the comments here has confirmed he's more interesting than Ash! (Poor Ash, it's not that I disliked her, really, but she never really integrates with the rest of your team...in ME3 I don't remember walking in on conversations between her and the other teammates. And on her own her story arc just wasn't that compelling to me.) But I kind of hope Naye doesn't keep romancing him (actually I think one of the reasons I didn't like Kaidan was because the game does rather force you to flirt with him; if we could've just been friends I'd have liked him better.)

Ahahah so much sympathy, I would be having such a hard time not squeeing at everything Garrus says (how can you not, it's all hysterical! also I kind of adore his voice, that cocky drawl, mmmm...)

And yeah, I played almost all the games with Matt watching, and he was pretty good about spoilers, mostly only telling me things when I asked him to. And he was SO interested for me to play the beginning of ME2 - which was the only spoiler I had, that something interesting happened then, but I was really not expecting that! I finished ME1 pretty late at night, figured I'd just play the opening of ME2 to see what happened - and then I had to go to bed crying, MY SHIP! MY SHIIIIIP!

(I also do love that explanation for why you don't have all the abilities and levels and weapons you gathered in the first game anymore, pretty clever!)

The Garrus romance is soooo good though...in ME2 it's just hilarious all the way through, flustered Garrus is the best thing ever. And it is the friends-falling-in-love trope, too, in a way that's usually difficult to do with het romance, but due to the cross-species circumstance it clearly just never occurred to Garrus to think of Shepard that way...though once he does he can't unthink it ;) (actually one of my favorite things about Shepard/Garrus is that they play out a lot like a slash 'ship and not like almost any het ship I know. I suspect some of it is because Shepard was being written mostly by men, and being written more as a male char, and so to keep her in character, even when she's female she ends up following more masculine than feminine romance tropes. Which she was like with Liara, too, at least in ME1. But it's even more obvious when she's matched with a char like Garrus who is usually very masculine, but in the romance (as in everything else!) he's following Shepard's lead.)

I might have to look up the Kaidan/Shep romance, because yeah, that is a weakness of mine...(ahhh fanning on games is so weird, though. I'm naturally an OTP-er kind of fan but I'm used to multi-shipping, and there are a few fandoms I'm a multi-shipper. But ME is actually more one I'd be inclined to OTP, because, Garrus! Except the multi-shipping is canon, and that makes me so curious! ...though Garrus is one of Shep's absolute BFFs no matter what, it seems, so I'm okay with it :)

--also speaking of fic, would you be interested in reading one in progress in draft form? (with the caveat that I'm not 100% certain I will finish it; for a first fic in a fandom the odds are pretty good, but I refuse to make guarantees about WIPs.)(and no prob if you'd rather wait, I usually avoid WIPs myself!)

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

So, update on Naye's status:

I convinced her to save Kaidan! So, hooray! She said she wasn't that big on Ashley as a character, and I revealed that at least 3 different people (you, me, and Destra) regretted saving Ashley and that Kaidan turns out to be a much more interesting character, so that was enough for Naye to save Kaidan. This is great for me, because I have very little clue how his storyline unfolds (I've been trying to avoid spoilers about that since 2012 since I've always been meaning to replay the games), so I'm chuffed that I get to see it in ME3. HURRAH.

Naye's also been reading a lot of the codex, because she hoovers up worldbuilding stuff like that. She's really into the Turians actually, their society is very interesting, and she thinks the Turians are nice. (Unlike the Salarians, which according to her are rude, because they are so short-lived and have NO TIME FOR ANYBODY.) I'm hoping this means that she'll like Garrus when he goes all squidgy on her on ME2, because HOMG GARRUS IS THE CUTEST. <3333333 There's hope that she'll fangirl on Garrus with all the rest of us, yipee!

That's an interesting take, that the Garrus/Shep romance plays out like a slash 'ship. I think you may be right on that, but I haven't said anything to Naye about it. I don't think she even knows that Garrus is romance-able? So I am keeping my lips sealed. :) She doesn't even know that "something cool happens at the beginning of ME2" so I hope she's totally unspoiled for it and she can explode when she plays it because SHEPARD DIES AT THE BEGINNING OF ME2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *evil cackle*

The Kaidan/femShep romance is actually...kind of cute? I never thought that I'd like them, but they're kind of adorable. Kaidan is a total puppy for femShep, and I feel that it's clear in the first game that they have an attraction. It's not one of those creepy "I LOVE YOU BE MINE FOREVER" but it feels more like they like each other and are having a fun fling. Of course, you can change the spin of your romance based on your conversation options, but it's actually nowhere near as UGH HET STUFF AGAIN BERLGH as I thought it'd be. He's no Garrus, tho.

I would be happy to read an in-progress fic in draft form, with the caveat that my comments may not be that detailed, because Naye might be a bit miffed that I get to preview your fic when she doesn't! :p I also don't remember much of the details of the ME world (though I'm re-learning them since we go through the codex together), and I saw a different ending than you did (since I didn't bother playing through the DLC)...but yeah, send it my way when you're ready! :D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the Naye updates~ :D

Cool about the saving of Kaidan, am curious how that goes myself! And the romance being cute, yeah, I could see that. I imagine Shepard is pretty in charge of that relationship - at least she seems to be otherwise, and Kaidan is so infatuated and admiring of Shepard...

...Am curious if Naye'll romance Garrus at all, if she doesn't know it's possible! ^^; I was wanting it so on the look-out for it...though I imagine she goes through all the conversation trees as thoroughly as I did, so she should find the option...

Heee, I read the whole Codex as well in all games (though I skimmed the tech/weapons stuff, everything about the aliens though I read intently!) The turians are really interesting - though I didn't really think of them as nice, they're kind of racist dicks a lot! Not meanly, but casually - I thought of them as the Americans of the galaxy, they're the ones with the military might, and they kind of just assume their way is the right way, and everyone else is not quite as good at them at it. While as I liked the salarians because they don't have time for anyone, but they're equal-opportunity about it with all species! (except krogan, but everyone is prejudiced against krogan, for varying degrees of justified...)

But the turian are cool! And even if Garrus isn't a very good turian...hopefully he'll win her over ;)

Depending on the how the fic goes, will send over a draft sometime! (I'm in sort of a writing slump in which sometimes I think the story is working and then the next day I think it's crap and agh, why is writing so haaaard!)

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

Naye calls Kaidan her puppy, because you are correct, Shepard is in charge of the relationship. That's actually an aspect that I really like about how they wrote FemShep, she is very in charge, and I like that Kaidan respects her. You can actually avoid the sex scene before Ilos by telling him "Now is not the time," and he just goes away. But you know, what would be the fun in that?

No, she doesn't know that Garrus is a romance option, and neither did I when I did the first playthrough, so I'm hoping that it'll come as a sweet surprise to her too! :D She goes through conversation trees fairly thoroughly, though I do have to remind her every so often to actually go and talk to people. There'll be more people in ME2, so hopefully she'll remember. :)

Garrus is already winning her over, she's taking him everywhere, which is great. :) Hee!

Looking forward to the draft, maybe it'll help pull you out of a writing slump? So sorry to hear that that's happening. D:

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

So has she started on ME2 yet? :D

I am curious how all the femShep romances play out - because yeah, I really liked the Garrus one, and it sounds like some of what I liked about it is true for Shep/Kaidan as well - Shepard being in charge, and the emphasis on mutual respect. (with Garrus it's actually more Shepard who's being careful and checking on Garrus's boundaries, making sure he's really okay with the whole cross-species thing, which I really liked because that's not something you often see the female partner saying in classic het romance tropes. Though there is this one part that Garrus is like, 'well, you seemed to need time to work us out, so, how are you feeling?' and I was like NOOOO I didn't need time, YOU were the one doing calibrations, I would've gotten it on three missions ago! XDXDXD)

[doctorskuld.livejournal.com]

OH YES, Naye finished ME on Friday evening and then started ME2 immediately. X3 She had no idea that something happened at the beginning of ME2, but when she saw it she thought it was very cool! :) She was very upset that the Normandy was destroyed, but was much mollified when she saw the new and improved Normandy, sans waiting around in elevators for forever. XD

Garrus is really growing on her, she went and did the Archangel mission first (even before picking up Mordin), because she heard "Turian viligante" and went, "HRM, WHO COULD THAT BE?" :)

I think she might be trying to aim in the direction of a Garrus romance, but she's gone so far down his conversation tree so early in the game (so far we've only picked up Garrus, Mordin, and Jack) that all he's doing is calibrations. :p

I think that femShep's romances are amazing because, as you said, the emphasis on mutual respect. I understand that's the case when you romance Thane, but I haven't seen Jacob's romance or Samara's romance. It's just so well-written, I really , really love femShep's romances. :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Eeee, the beginning of ME2 is great, it's a perfect way to get you into the action (and also a very convincing in-game explanation for why your powerset and skill level changes between games...) I took a bit to warm to the Normandy SR2 (my shiiiip! after so much Star Trek I got very attached to having my own ship) but of course loved it more than the first...

Ahahah yeah I picked up Garrus first thing, too! (Then you can take him to get Mordin and listen to him get the plague, which is kind of hilarious...) Garrus's romance option doesn't turn up until after you do his loyalty mission - though once you've done it, you get a different response from him than his #%@$!@% calibrations, which really makes it worthwhile just in that! XD

Mordin~~~~! Does she like Mordin? I was happy to get a salarian on my team but I didn't think I would love him as much as I did...

Yes, femShep's romances are wonderful! It makes me curious to do all of them (...dangit I could really replay these games a lot, I understand why people do...) If I hadn't gone with Garrus I'd have romanced Thane, he intrigued me (and I liked that he was a pretty-boy alien, those are unusual; 'exotic alien' women like the asari are everywhere, but there aren't many male equivalents...) And I wonder about Jacob - I missed being romantic with him at all, once we bonded we were totally bros.

I do want to see the mShep/Kaidan romance - J-chan is thinking about replaying ME3 while she's here (with all the DLC) so we'll get to see it then, hopefully! (eheheh I am fanning on these games rather a lot right now, I'm really looking forward to watching her play ^^;)

[sheliana.livejournal.com]

I love love LOVE reading new fans' reactions to Mass Effect. Bioware games are pretty much my core fandom, the one I always get back to (have been a fan since 2003!), and ME is by far my favorite thing they've ever done. Well, I think Dragon Age is just as good, but I just love sci-fi space opera more than fantasy; plus there's the fact that ME is the only series where you get to play as the same character through all the games, and... I don't think I was ever this attached to a game protagonist. I just have this ridiculous adoration for Shepard, which is funny, because I was very unimpressed with her after playing the first game (I thought she lacked emotions, and just couldn't relate to her 'always-cool-under-fire' brand of badassery). But she got a personality, a sense of humor, and facial expressions in ME2! And her relationships with her squad became far more developed and complex, and her friendship with Garrus became front and center, and... Well, I just love Shepard and her silly space family to pieces, and this is why the Citadel DLC made me so happy, especially all those bits where Shepard is lovingly mocked by her crew for her dancing skills (or lack thereof), or for her propensity for ending all conversations with "I should go".:))

I love every single character in these games, including the humans. But I've played the series a few times, so all of them really feel like family now. I thought Ashley was actually the most lively character in the first game; Kaidan was a bit bland, Liara and Wrex were the character archetypes that had been used several times before in Bioware games, and I was at that point tired of them; and Tali and Garrus were kind of 2-dimensional. It was the second game made Liara and Wrex interesting to me (and if you ever feel like replaying, you *have* to try the "Lair of the Shadow Broker" DLC; it's Liara-centric and *so good* - it's an amazing space adventure, and even though Liara gets most of the focus, you find out a lot of interesting information about every single member of your squad. It's almost as good as the Citadel!). I thought the Liara romance was actually very well-done and sweet ( probably the most developed romance in the series, to be honest).

But I'm a Garrus girl always and forever. The fact that Shepard and Garrus start out with a strong friendship with no romantic undertones whatsoever hits so many of my buttons. They just have this bond that's immensely strong, no matter if it's romantic or totally platonic. Some people pointed out the differences between Garrus romance and anyone else's: Shepard is willing to share so much more with Garrus about her fears and doubts. If you choose to sabotage the Genophage cure or make even just Shepard conflicted about the whole thing, Garrus is the only one to whom Shepard will confess about this. She actually admits feeling weak and scared to Garrus in one of their romance conversations whereas in a similar conversation with Kaidan she will deny she's scared in order not to worry him. Shepard/Garrus relationship is just a thing of beauty.

Regarding the human companions, I thought Ashley got the shaft in the third game - she was not as developed as the rest of the squaddies, not as involved with the life on the Normandy as a whole, and some of her very interesting conversations ended up cut. Kaidan, on the other hand, became much more awesome. There's this conversation he has with Shepard where he complains that sometimes people find his 'integrity' annoying, and he sounds so confused and *peeved* about that, and it's just so freakin' adorable.:) I admit, I didn't care much for him in the first game (the fact that the game practically railroaded me into a romance with him didn't help), but now I have the biggest soft spot for the guy.

But my favorite is Vega, by far. Well, favorite human, I mean. No one could compare to Garrus! In fact, Shepard/Garrus/Vega are probably my one true OT3 of the series... though I could say the same about Shepard/Garrus/Tali! And I love how the Citadel DLC acknowledges both OT3s in a small way! They really went out of their way to provide as much fan service as possible, including nods to multiple fandom memes.

[sheliana.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you on Mordin; he's a wonderfully complex character, and his Loyalty mission in ME2 is one of my all-time favorite quests. I actually found it more powerful to make Shepard conflicted about the whole Genophage situation at first and seriously consider the Salarians' offer, and then choose to help Mordin with the cure at the very last moment: in this situation we get the scene where she questions Mordin on why he changed his views on the genophage so radically when he had always defended it in the past, and Mordin just screams at her that he was wrong, and it's breaking my heart to think about it... Ugh, I love the whole Tuchanka storyline so much, no matter how you play it.

I'm one of the Destroy ending supporters, but that's mostly because it's the only ending that allows me to pretend things turned out to be OK in the end. After all, the Starchild told Shepard that *all* synthetic life would perish, including Shepard herself (due to her Reaper implants) - and yet Shepard can survive. And EDI at one point mentions that her platform is disposable, and there's a backup system... So I just pretend that the Starchild was wrong, or lied, and the Geth and EDI did not die... or died in a non-permanent way. I absolutely can't choose Control because Shepard would have to be really arrogant to believe she can control the Reapers when no one else in the unverse could... and Synthesis is tempting, but I do have a problem with the fact that it rewrites DNA of every single creature without their consent. So all endings offer some deplorable consequences, but Destroy lets me engage in a little bit of denial, and I'm fine with that!:) And those Youtube commenters are assholes; there is no right or wrong ending, and every ending has its pluses and minuses!

Okay, I'll stop rambling, but I'm just happy to see that my favorite series got itself another fan, and YAY FOR FIC! Whenever I re-read your SGA fic, I'd always think I'd love to see your take on the ME team, and I'm so delighted that the games inspired you!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heee glad you've enjoyed my rambling, I'm enjoying your comments back! :) I can completely understand having Bioware be a core fandom - I'm planning on playing the DA games later, but yeah, like you while I like fantasy, space opera is where my heart is. And I can totally see being a fan of both ME and SGA - most fans of SGA's team would also enjoy ME, I think (really I think ME does the team stuff better - even though there's more characters, their balance is handled better than SGA and their bad habit of forgetting to give Teyla or Ronon anything to do :P)

Part of my problems with the humans (other than an innate bias - I tend to prefer alien/inhuman characters over regular humans in most things) is that I never fully adjusted to the art there - the humans fall so deep into the uncanny valley, they're realistic but not quite enough, all their expressions and such are weirdly warped. And the aliens don't have that problem - and Shepard doesn't either, so much, because Shepard tend not to be that outwardly expressive by nature! I felt the same way about Shepard, the first game especially I had a hard time really getting her as anything more than generic hero, but once you get to know her better it's hard not to love her (...or him. Them? Pronouns in this game are hard!) ...Especially in the Citadel DLC, oh god the dancing! (I sympathize/empathize so much there, that's rather a perfect model of how I dance :P) And the "I should go," ahahahah that was amazing.

I am curious how Kaidan plays in ME3, as everyone seems to agree he's more interesting than Ash there. I let him die because, like you, I didn't like how the romance with him was kind of forced (it seems like Shepard was flirty with him whatever options I picked, when I didn't really want to be...) ...also some of the conversations with him were weird, because I was playing as a Vanguard in ME1, and whenever he talked about biotics I kept wondering why Shepard wasn't commiserating, since she had them too! (that's something they improved because by the third game, when I switched to pure biotics, it came up a few times.)

...I am definitely going to have to play the games again, I'm curious to see other options. On Tuchanka I told Wrex and the others as soon as possible about the sabotage - even if I had qualms about the genophage, my Shepard would never betray Wrex like that. But now I want to see Mordin's reactions otherwise - his whole reaction to the genophage and his work on it is so fascinating, even when he still thinks he did the right thing, the guilt he bears for it is so overwhelming. I love Mordin because he's the comic relief with so much more underneath, his clowning eccentricities are covering such deep tragedy. (if you've seen Babylon 5 - which, if you haven't, you really should, it was a major influence on ME! - Mordin reminds me a bit of my favorite B5 character, Londo Mollari. They're totally different both in character and in story arc, but they have in common that aspect, that they're simultaneously one of the funniest characters and one of the most tragic.)(and oddly enough one of the characters closely connected to Londo is named Morden! - though otherwise they're nothing alike.)

The Destroy ending being most permissive for denial, oh, I can totally understand that! :) I still struggle with it, because even if EDI and the Geth can survive, Shepard didn't know that, and I have a hard time seeing Shepard risking them that way. But yeah, Synthesis is far from perfect, and rewriting the DNA...or whatever Synthesis does???...is incredibly drastic... I think that's one thing the game did get right, that all the endings have their positives and negatives, they're pretty well balanced (and Control, which is the hardest to argue for, has the coolest extended-cut end imo, so that makes up for it!)

The fic is...I have no idea whether I'm even going to finish it, I kind of know where it's going, but...would you have any interest in cheerleading? (I don't need a beta at this point, just someone to read it and tell me it's good and they want more! and also point out if anything doesn't make sense or completely contradicts canon.) Or if you want to wait until it's done, I totally get that :) Either way, if/when you read it I hope it entertains!

[sheliana.livejournal.com]

I've actually just acquired Babylon 5 (the entire series + the movies) due to your last post where you mentioned its influence on ME.:) I've never seen it before, and I'm looking forward to watching it!

Hee, actually the fans of the ME2 squad (especially fans of the romanceable characters) were very unhappy with the way ME3 neglected their faves (compared to the original squad, anyway),and the female fans were *really* screwed over in the romance department, so I guess one could say that Miranda/Jack/Thane/Jacob are the ME equivalent of Ronon and Teyla.:)

I can understand being unsettled by the way the humans look in the games. Having been a fan of Bioware for years, I got so used to the 'uncanny valley' effect that it doesn't really bother me anymore - but yeah, the graphics have never been among their strong points.:) Their last game, Dragon Age: Inquisition, offers some lovely (and at times truly *stunning*) views, but the character animation still kind of leaves much to be desired, IMO. Oh well, I forgive them this for their focus on story and character interactions.

I concur with all those who think Kaidan is better than Ash in ME3: he actually banters with the crew, and Shepard can have an extra conversation with him, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, he's so hilarious in the Citadel DLC! He's a big dork at heart, and by the end of the game I just wanted to wrap him up in a blanket and protect him from the evils of the world.:) I loved him dancing drunkenly at the party and yelling out various nonsensical things ("Shake it! Shake it till you break it! ...wait, what?":)) Okay, I am a bit of a Kaidan fangirl, and that says a lot, given that he annoyed me in ME1 too!

The whole genophage stituation is probably my favorite thing about the series. In my last playthrough Shepard was good, but somewhat morally conflicted. Wreav's warmongering gave her a pause, and she became fearful of the possibility that she would just plunge the galaxy into another war after the Reaper threat was dealt with. So she kept to herself the Dalatress' offer to sabotage the cure. And this leads to a very powerful scene where she angrily demands that Mordin explain why he's so hell-bent on curing the genophage, almost as if she wants him to assuage her own doubts and fears. I honestly got chills down my spine watching it. And if you choose to kill Mordin... yeah, that's just unbearable. I could never do it even out of curiosity, so I had to watch it on YouTube. And then Wrex finds out what you did...

Hey, I'm always up for a little cheerleading! I'm hardly qualified for being a beta anyway, seeing as Engish is not my first language, and I'm actually far from being an expert on ME canon, so it's a good thing you don't need one!:) But I'd really love to read the fic and offer my support! Though it's probably going to be just endless squee on my part - I really enjoy your fic, and this is going to be a third OTP of mine you've written fic about! So... how is it done? I can send my e-mail via PM if you'd like to share what you've written! Or would you rather just post it here in parts before posting on AO3?

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Eee, enjoy B5!

--I do feel obliged to mention the caveats. The series is from the '90s and it shows its age. It was, I think, the first scifi series to use 100% CGI for the space/ship scenes, and while that was cool at the time the graphics are significantly dated now (though the ship designs themselves remain some of my favorites in any scifi show or movie.) Some of the acting, especially guest roles, is not very good (but some is amazing.) And the first season is...uneven, to say the least. (There are still a few eps from s1 that I've never bothered to watch...)

That being said, yeah, it's one of my favorite TV series of all time, and I'm pretty sure that's true for more than one ME writer as well (there are all sorts of points in common, from the universe and the main peril, to a ship that's a joint production of humans and a now-allied species that humans were at war with not too long before.)

ETA: Also, re: B5, you mentioned the movies - though some of those are set pre-series (I know one is, not sure about the others) you should probably watch at least some of the series first - my memory is that the prequel movie plays better when you're familiar with the characters.

As for ME! Hah, I wasn't really thinking about how the casts change between the games...I knew more or less who were the main teammates from game to game (I didn't know how big your team got in ME2, but I knew that Garrus and Tali were the only chars you could have for all 3 games, and that ME3 had a smaller team-cast.) And knowing that, I was actually surprised by how much screentime and character arcs the rest of the ME2 team got. But if they were your favorites I could see being disappointed. (though at least the Citadel DLC gave time to everybody! ...though I didn't get to see Miranda there as I accidentally got her killed, whoops...)

When I do another playthrough I'm going to let Kaidan live, I'm curious! I'll probably try playing mShep then, so his flirting in the beginning won't annoy me, and we'll see how it goes. I've been known to do a 180 on chars I originally disliked, so...!

The genophage situation is just fascinating - it has so many layers of right and wrong. One of the things that impressed me about the games were how good the writers were at coming up with these complex situations without easy answers, and the genophage is the strongest example. Like, with the Geth, it's pretty easy to say that the quarians were just wrong to try to kill them originally. But everything that is done to and by the krogans is so complicated - most of it is horrible, but it makes sense, and maybe was the only way at the time. Mordin says at one point that the original crime was uplifting the krogan before they were ready, but even then, terrible idea as it was, it might have been the only way to stop the Rachni... (except peace with the Rachni might've been possible, or maybe not...!) And then once the krogan genie was out of the bottle...well, it's good that Wrex and Bakara are in charge now, it still might go wrong, but it's a better chance than the krogan ever had before...

And I'll PM you about the fic now!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

--And it didn't fit in the last comment, but awwwwwwwwwwwwww to everything you said about the Garrus romance, that is so sweet. I've watched a couple clips on yt of mShep and Garrus and it tickles me that so much of their interactions are the same - I hadn't realized how much of their conversation on the Earth base wasn't actually part of the romance but is true of the friendship as well. (like the line about meeting in Heaven's bar, AWWWWWWWWWWWWW GARRUS.) Garrus is pretty much Shep's best friend whether or not you're also involved, and a romance on top of my friendship is pretty much my favorite thing. I'm curious how the other romances play out, but yeah, Garrus/Shepard is pretty cemented as my ME OTP, whether romantic or platonically so...

And oh! this is a random question, since you know the games so well - my sister and brother both swear that in the last game, in the final bit in the Earth base when you're walking around talking with everyone and saying your farewells, someone talks about getting a parade, after the mission is over. Only I never got that dialog..they thought it was Wrex, but weren't sure. Then the brother was wondering if it was Garrus in the non-romantic dialog, since they both played mShep; but that doesn't seem to be the case. Do you happen to know what they were thinking of? (I also managed to miss Ashley entirely in that bit and I'm still not sure how...and it doesn't let you save there, annoyingly, so I can't easily go back and replay it...)

[sheliana.livejournal.com]

Ah, I don't know ME as much as I'd like to, because I don't remember! It's definitely not Wrex, though. Maybe it was one of the minor characters like Primarch Victus. I'm seriously drawing a blank here. But the last time I played the games was about a year ago, so I've forgotten some details.:(

Regarding the endings, I've found that the "Leviathan" DLC actually changed some fans' minds about Control (as in, it begins to make more sense for Shepard to choose it). If you ever replay the games with the DLCs, I'd be very interested to to know what you think about it as well as the "Arrival" DLC (this one kind of foreshadows one of the choices Shepard can make at the end). "Arrival" is actually very important story-wise as it serves as transition between ME2 and ME3, but given how Paragon your Shep is, I'm not sure you'd enjoy it... maybe you should just watch it on Youtube, like I watched the shooting of the Mordin.:(

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Well, when I play again I'll probably be trying for a more Renegade Shep (will see how that goes...) And the brother right now is thinking about getting all the DLC for all the games and doing another playthrough himself, so when I play again it'll be with all the extras...(though I'd still be tempted to go back and play most of them with my first game I suspect, to make sure I'm not missing any Garrus romance options! XD)