on negativity in fandom
Nov. 17th, 2019 04:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xparrotI was writing this whole long rambling post about responsibility, and apologizing for and trying to minimize accidental harm, but then it changed tangents and I think what I most want to say is this:
In fandom, please be careful about how negative you are, and how you are negative.
This relates to anything from offering unsolicited crit on a fic (or heck, solicited crit) to hating on a part of canon, or to being an anti, or to discussing your dislike of a popular fic trope.
I'm not saying this for reasons of courtesy and manners, though I think that counts for something. But it's really for a much more selfish reason: Negativity can make people disengage, and that's overall detrimental to fandom. Which I selfishly care about, as a fan.
Spoilers: fandom is a really fucking emotional thing for most people. Our interests and obsessions are a pretty core part of our identities, and we wouldn't be devoting time and energy to them if we weren't mentally and emotionally engaged. Hearing that someone hates something you love can hurt, even when there is no hurt intended. That's even before we get into the question of fanfic and fanart and vids and other fan creations, and how personal one's art is to most artists. Especially for amateur artists, who aren't getting paid and so the only impetus to share our creations is for emotional validation.
There have been more than a few fic writers who have quit writing because of crit -- because getting crit is really hard even for many professional writers, and people writing for fun may not have the emotional energy to deal with it, or just don't want to, and so they stop, or stop sharing their work publicly. But it's not just direct crit that can do this. If you're writing a trope you love, or a pairing you love, and then you see people talking about how much they dislike that trope or how gross that pairing is, it can make you hesitate to keep writing, or at least hesitate to share your work, knowing you might be inviting crit. Or even just thinking that no one is going to want to read it. (Then, some of us are the opposite and such things inspire us to keep going out of pure spite; but even for me that's something I have to work myself into and it takes its own emotional toll.)
And this hurts, not just the writer, but the fandom as a whole, because someone quitting writing means less fic in the fandom for the rest of us. And even if it's not fic that you like personally, that you'd be happy not to see any more of -- someone else surely would like it, and want more, and do you want to spoil their fun, too?
Likewise, talking about disliking canon can stop discussion, because it can be hard to contradict someone -- especially someone with whom you share a fandom, so there can be that sense of comradery, being in the same community. So if you see a fan friend talking about how X canon thing sucks, rather than argue back that you love that thing, it can be easier to not rock the boat, to not say anything -- but then not feeling comfortable to talk about what you love in a fandom can drain your interest in it, and with it the fandom; and then you drift away, and the fandom shrinks.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't be negative. For one thing, sometimes it's important to do so. Calling out things like racism or toxic behavior can be seen as negative but can also be really crucial for the overall health and safety of a community and the members in it. Pointing out that a fic isn't sufficiently tagged can be a type of criticism (and can hurt a writer) but may help many other fans who could be impacted.
For two, complaining about what we dislike as well as what we like is a big part of fanning for a lot of us -- for me definitely; I enjoy a good hard critical analysis, and I'll be honest, sometimes I take guiltily gleeful pleasure in shredding something I didn't like. And sometimes, too, it feels great to talk about and find out I'm not alone in hating X thing. But I try -- have been trying harder -- to limit how I do it. When I criticize canon, I try to tag/mark it for negativity and squee-harshing, so people who don't want to see it can avoid it. When I criticize fanworks (either a specific fic I don't like, or a trope/ship/etc) I try to ensure it's not personal, and/or to keep it in more private locked channels that won't get back to the writer(s), because that's really all about me and what I like; it's not another fan's fault that I have my preferences, and the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the fun of someone else who is enjoying the fandom as much as I am, if in a different way.
I'm far from great at this -- I've hurt friends on more than one occasion without meaning to because I got too into a fannish debate and didn't realize the feelings I was provoking. I have no doubt that I've discouraged other fans from fanning on and writing things they enjoy, and I'm sorry for that. But I'm trying, and will keep trying -- I've been trying harder especially lately because my current fandom is quite small; just about all of us non-lurkers in it have interacted with each other to some extent, so it makes any interactions more personal than they would be in a larger fandom in which many people don't know each other. I'm not perfect but I'm doing my best. And hopefully my fandoms will be a more encouraging place for it.
tl;dr: make squee, not war?
ETA: this post's original subject was "not-so-vague vague-posting" because I was originally inspired to write it by a mess in my current fandom. My original intent morphed in the writing of it, though, to be more about my own changing feelings about how I interact with the fan communities I'm in, for better or for worse, so I've adjusted the subject to match.
In fandom, please be careful about how negative you are, and how you are negative.
This relates to anything from offering unsolicited crit on a fic (or heck, solicited crit) to hating on a part of canon, or to being an anti, or to discussing your dislike of a popular fic trope.
I'm not saying this for reasons of courtesy and manners, though I think that counts for something. But it's really for a much more selfish reason: Negativity can make people disengage, and that's overall detrimental to fandom. Which I selfishly care about, as a fan.
Spoilers: fandom is a really fucking emotional thing for most people. Our interests and obsessions are a pretty core part of our identities, and we wouldn't be devoting time and energy to them if we weren't mentally and emotionally engaged. Hearing that someone hates something you love can hurt, even when there is no hurt intended. That's even before we get into the question of fanfic and fanart and vids and other fan creations, and how personal one's art is to most artists. Especially for amateur artists, who aren't getting paid and so the only impetus to share our creations is for emotional validation.
There have been more than a few fic writers who have quit writing because of crit -- because getting crit is really hard even for many professional writers, and people writing for fun may not have the emotional energy to deal with it, or just don't want to, and so they stop, or stop sharing their work publicly. But it's not just direct crit that can do this. If you're writing a trope you love, or a pairing you love, and then you see people talking about how much they dislike that trope or how gross that pairing is, it can make you hesitate to keep writing, or at least hesitate to share your work, knowing you might be inviting crit. Or even just thinking that no one is going to want to read it. (Then, some of us are the opposite and such things inspire us to keep going out of pure spite; but even for me that's something I have to work myself into and it takes its own emotional toll.)
And this hurts, not just the writer, but the fandom as a whole, because someone quitting writing means less fic in the fandom for the rest of us. And even if it's not fic that you like personally, that you'd be happy not to see any more of -- someone else surely would like it, and want more, and do you want to spoil their fun, too?
Likewise, talking about disliking canon can stop discussion, because it can be hard to contradict someone -- especially someone with whom you share a fandom, so there can be that sense of comradery, being in the same community. So if you see a fan friend talking about how X canon thing sucks, rather than argue back that you love that thing, it can be easier to not rock the boat, to not say anything -- but then not feeling comfortable to talk about what you love in a fandom can drain your interest in it, and with it the fandom; and then you drift away, and the fandom shrinks.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't be negative. For one thing, sometimes it's important to do so. Calling out things like racism or toxic behavior can be seen as negative but can also be really crucial for the overall health and safety of a community and the members in it. Pointing out that a fic isn't sufficiently tagged can be a type of criticism (and can hurt a writer) but may help many other fans who could be impacted.
For two, complaining about what we dislike as well as what we like is a big part of fanning for a lot of us -- for me definitely; I enjoy a good hard critical analysis, and I'll be honest, sometimes I take guiltily gleeful pleasure in shredding something I didn't like. And sometimes, too, it feels great to talk about and find out I'm not alone in hating X thing. But I try -- have been trying harder -- to limit how I do it. When I criticize canon, I try to tag/mark it for negativity and squee-harshing, so people who don't want to see it can avoid it. When I criticize fanworks (either a specific fic I don't like, or a trope/ship/etc) I try to ensure it's not personal, and/or to keep it in more private locked channels that won't get back to the writer(s), because that's really all about me and what I like; it's not another fan's fault that I have my preferences, and the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the fun of someone else who is enjoying the fandom as much as I am, if in a different way.
I'm far from great at this -- I've hurt friends on more than one occasion without meaning to because I got too into a fannish debate and didn't realize the feelings I was provoking. I have no doubt that I've discouraged other fans from fanning on and writing things they enjoy, and I'm sorry for that. But I'm trying, and will keep trying -- I've been trying harder especially lately because my current fandom is quite small; just about all of us non-lurkers in it have interacted with each other to some extent, so it makes any interactions more personal than they would be in a larger fandom in which many people don't know each other. I'm not perfect but I'm doing my best. And hopefully my fandoms will be a more encouraging place for it.
tl;dr: make squee, not war?
ETA: this post's original subject was "not-so-vague vague-posting" because I was originally inspired to write it by a mess in my current fandom. My original intent morphed in the writing of it, though, to be more about my own changing feelings about how I interact with the fan communities I'm in, for better or for worse, so I've adjusted the subject to match.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-20 01:07 am (UTC)Though, for what it's worth, I tend not to call my own fic trash (or think of other people's fic that way) -- some of this is just that for me "trash" is kind of like "cheesy"...part of what makes a canon trashy for me is when I think a lot of it is just bad, and I'm focusing on the good parts; something that is just straight id all the time is not trashy in the same way...though that's maybe just how I'm thinking of specific examples. Hmm.
I think a very fundamental element of the way I relate to fandom and fic is that fic is always a step down from canon; it might be much more fannishly satisfying because it's written to supply our fannish ids, but canon comes first and fic is always derivative of that
This is fascinating to me because it's so fundamentally different from how I see things. I don't think something being derivative makes it lesser, or that an original idea is innately superior simply for being the original. I think the Gintama anime is more entertaining than the manga it's adapted from and prefer watching to reading, even though the former wouldn't exist without the latter. I usually think fics based on prompts are more interesting and better reads than the prompts that inspired them; most of the time I don't care about reading the prompt at all, and just want the fic. And yeah, I've read fanfic that I think are better than the original canon, at least on some axis of "better" -- for me, anyway; but then I think my opinion counts as much as anyone's. I'd much rather read Clex fic than watch Smallville! :P
Though mostly, for me, I don't compare them directly. Canon gives me something; fanfic gives me something else. They're both essential parts of my fanning experience, and even if one only exists without the other, without that one, my experience would be fundamentally different and lesser (and I wouldn't enjoy the canon as much anyway).
no subject
Date: 2019-11-20 08:39 am (UTC)But I also agree with you that I don't tend to think of them in direct comparison to each other; like you said, they typically give me different things. There are things I'll read (or write) in fic but don't want in canon, and vice versa! And there are definitely times when fic gives me what I'm craving when fandom didn't - I guess my two main reasons for looking for fic are "more of the same" and "more of the thing canon didn't have enough of"! Hurt/comfort usually, heavy on the comfort, please and thank you.
.... oh, and re: the "trash" thing - I saw you say in a comment elsewhere that not using the trash phrasing publicly makes fandom a little less fun for you, and that makes me kind of sad, because - I want fandom to be fun for everyone! I hope it wasn't our discussions about it that contributed to that, and I'm sorry if it was. I mean, that's totally the kind of thing where I think the person who needs to learn to roll with it is me, not other people needing to change the way they do things. (Tumblr has gotten me used to various fandom things that I wouldn't have thought possible ... XD)
Anyway, I'm glad we can still discuss these things. <3
no subject
Date: 2019-11-21 03:42 am (UTC)I am a fan of canon. I can enjoy a fic, I can fall in love with it, etc. It could be the best thing that's ever been written. It could be emotionally/intellectually more satisfying then canon. But if I were to write fanfic based on the fic, it would in my head be a step removed from any fanfic I would write based on canon, if that makes sense. Like, fanon characterization (hi Draco in leatherpants!) is often enjoyable in and of itself but it doesn't actually have to impact canon characterization in my head.
So then, you can fix/rewrite canon as many times as you like, and some of those rewrites will be amazing but they won't really be lesser or greater than the source material, to me. Just different.
This is perhaps ramblier and less coherent than I wish but I'm too tired to make it more coherent.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-21 06:47 am (UTC)Hurt/comfort usually, heavy on the comfort, please and thank you.
Heeeeeeeeee (my ration of h to c is tilting SO much harder to the c now and I don't know why, whether it's because I'm getting older, or just, well, the world is so crap, we need more warmth and kindness...!)
And oh, no, the "trash" thing wasn't you! You were just one voice of many who were unhappy enough with it that it just isn't worth it for me. Words are words for a reason, and if many of the people I'm talking to are not hearing the same word as I do when I speak, it's not worth it for me to keep saying it. And I do have peeps who I share that fanning style with too (I admit that I wish I had a few more, because lovingly mocking is really one of my favorite ways to fan, but it's such a delicate balance for me, like, mocking without the love isn't fun for me either...)
I'm so glad to be discussing things like this too! I should do more random fandom meta even when not vaguely addressing wank, it's so much more fun than that :P