great minds, and the frustrations thereof

[xparrot]

So a question to all my fellow authors on the flist - how many of you have been 'victims' of reverse plagiarism? As in, swiped before you even write it?

By which I mean you get an idea for a fic, you're happily writing it, the story's going better than expected - and then whammo, someone you've never heard of posts a fic in the same fandom, same pairing, that happens to have the same plot as your story. Before you ever posted or mentioned your story publicly, so they probably had the idea before you, and you actually unknowingly lifted it from their brain by way of long-distance fangirl osmosis.

(Bonus points if the posted story is long, quite well-written, and is garnering reviews like hotcakes, so it's not likely to be forgotten in the next week.)

So...what do you do? Write it off to coincidence and keep plugging away at your own story, hoping no one calls you on it? Contact the author of the other story and ask if they mind? Crawl under your futon and whine pathetically to your sister for an hour? All of the above?

(The annoying thing is, the posted story is quite sweet, from what I've skimmed, and I'd probably enjoy it if I weren't so distressed by the too-familiar parallels...)

ETA: Yes, I am this insecure - fortunately gnine is a wonderful little sister and has mostly fixed this for me, encouragingly laying out for me all the ways my story is different, and then working out with me how it could be even more different, with a bit of tweaking, that actually makes my story more solid. So s'all good, then (still debating contacting the other author, maybe when I finish writing myself...)

Comments

[busaikko]

HA HA HA HA HA! * hands you the strong drink *

That's happened to me! I think I'd take a several pronged attack.

1. DO NOT read other!story. Note the link, but otherwise leave it be.

2. Write your story. There are so many, many cliches in any fandom, this is how they start ('Say, what if they were locked together... in a prison cell...'). Worrieth not, just write. Have it beta'd, first by someone who hasn't read other!story, then by someone who has.

3. Read other!story, after making final corrections to your story.

4. And if it were me (disclosure!woman), I'd add an author's note saying something like, While I was writing this, I saw that Xparrot wrote a fantastic story with the same idea. I read her story after I wrote this, and the link is *here*. We just love the 'locked together in a prison cell' idea! Hope to read more prison!fic from y'all! (Which covers all your bases: a) you did not read the fic, therefore did not plagarise it, b) you avoid people behind-back-whispering because you congratulate other!author, and c) you encourage the new cliche/theme *g* )

/ my two yen worth....

*gratefully tosses ni-en into your hat*

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

*laughs* This isn't the first time this has happened to me, either (though the last time it was a WiP that I'd already started posting, so I didn't feel quite so much like my fire had been stolen...) And yes...I panic every single time ^^;

Thank you - all good advice! Though I've already skimmed the story in question (...I have no self control), and while it's definitely got similarities (enough that I think it will trigger recognition in anyone who reads both), it's different enough that I'm not worried I'm going to end up unconsciously copying parts. I also just spent time hashing out my own story with my sis, with the aim of changing the details that parallel the other too closely - and I think my story will be stronger for the changes. Silver lining, etc!

And I was thinking of including such an author's note, though I'll have to put it at the end of my story to avoid spoiling things...

[naye]

Oh, Neechan. *hugs* I'm so glad you've got J-chan around to talk you out of the panic, and I do believe that this is a good thing in the end, since you've been making the plot more solid, but... That sort of thing is never fun. *pats*

I haven't read the story myself, though I know which one you mean - what do you think? Should I read it too, to be able to better tell you how your fic isn't reverse plagiarizing it, or do you want me to wait until you've finished your fic first?

Now come out from under the futon and write more! ♥

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm very lucky to have her around! (you could've talked me out of it, too, but she go to it first, and also knows a few more details that you don't know about my story yet...)

I'd say read the other story now, if you're willing - I'd be curious about your take, at the point you're at in my story, how obvious/annoying the parallels are, and whether they're detrimental...

(writing, writing! <3)

[naye]

Knowing the full plot of your story would help, yes!

Heh. Well, I've been meaning to read more fic - this gives me a great excuse to do so.

BTW - is this better? (Yes, now I'm stalking you with graphics!) ^^;

[nekokoban]

BEEN THERE, YES! I always called it psychic plagiarism, though usually rather self-deprecatingly on my part. XD I had the most awesome idea for an original story and had about half of the whole thing planned out -- and then I read American Gods and sort of went "... :(" at the whole thing.

And then one of the fic I posted recently, I got stymied about halfway through writing it because it FELT like there was something in it that I was inadvertantly lifting from a story I'd read recently (I couldn't remember the story, though, sadly), so I changed things until it no longer felt like I was ripping something off. Siiiiigh. XD;

But oh, yes. Been there, done that, went :| a lot at the world for it. XD

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

'psychic plagiarism' works well for it, yeah. And I've had it for...always, really (and doesn't it seem like you always read the book/see the movie JUST when your idea has crystallized in the most brilliant form?) But it's especially frustrating when you're right smack in the middle of a fic which you specifically checked to see if it had been done before, and it hadn't, and then someone posts their version...(that actually wasn't the case here, this fandom's so big I assume everything had been done already and didn't even try to check, not wanting to be influenced...I think what's frustrating me the most is judging by the reaction to the other fic, this idea for some reason is new - and someone beat me to it by that much! siiigh~! I really oughta not take these things personally...)

*goes <:| with you*

[nekokoban]

I haven't been in a really BIG fandom since Kingdom Hearts, and even then, I didn't pay much attention to the high-traffic comms, I have to confess. XD; So I haven't exactly had the sense of my idea being "stolen" (use of irony quotes yay) when someone posts a similiar thing before I can, but ... Psychic plagiarism, certainly.

It rather sucks, doesn't it. :

[sholio]

Okay, I laughed when I read this, but I need to point out that I'm absolutely NOT laughing at you, or at having your idea used in a published novel -- because I've had that happen to me, and the feeling really sucks. But it's just funny that the novel should be American Gods, because that book is actually based on (or, at least "inspired by") one that Diana Wynne Jones wrote called Eight Days of Luke. I actually read Eight Days of Luke some time after American Gods, and I was thinking as I read it ".... hey, this is a lot like American Gods, how weird", and then read an interview with Gaiman where he's talking about having gotten the idea for American Gods from this Diana Wynne Jones novel! And the similarities are still so obvious that I noticed it even without knowing the books were connected. So y'know ... of all the authors who might object to that sort of thing, Neil Gaiman is probably not one of them!

[maxinemayer.livejournal.com]

This would devastate me but I think you're taking it well! I agree with above course of action - to acknowledge the similarities, congratulate other author, ask for more of that type of fic - since you really haven't taken this story from someone else!

Besides, I don't care *how* similar two stories are, plot-wise (and there are no new plots, only re-worked plots - see Shakespeare!), it's the style and thematic turns and layers the individual authors bring to a plot that make stories good, better or great!

Can't wait to read your story - don't know which other one you're talking about but I don't care, I'd like to read *yours*!

Love, max
P.S. I adore that Atlantis-Team header/banner at the top of your LJ - it rocks! Very beautiful!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm not taking it too well - you should see me flail and panic over here! ^^; But it's good to know I'm not alone...and yeah, I tell myself 'Shakespeare' all the time. Not that I have delusions of being Shakespearian! But we fic'ers are all writing derivative works anyway; obviously 'originality' is not the prime quality we care about.

Can't wait to read your story - don't know which other one you're talking about but I don't care, I'd like to read *yours*!

Thank you! Really, really, thank you - you have no idea how warm and encouraged this makes me me feel. ^_^

And glad you like the new lj banner - I just figured out how to do those, and had to do something teamy, naturally!

[maxinemayer.livejournal.com]

You just figured out how to do the LJ banner thing! I, on the other hand, am afraid to even try to do anything original with my LJ page! I'm still sticking with the basic format, colors, etc! This will hold me for a long time because I still don't know how to place somebody's LJname into a post or comment! I've tried every which way without success! So, I figure that getting icons going, and getting LJcut going is good enough for now!

Have a great day!
Love, max

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, lj does take some getting used to!

To do someone's name, you put:
<lj user="USERNAMEHERE">

(so <lj user="xparrot"> = xparrot)

The lj FAQ has more (though it's so long it can be hard to find what you're looking for!)

[maxinemayer.livejournal.com]

I'm going to try this here:

xparrot

now I'm going to see how that works in preview....

Oh my gosh! It worked!

Oh thank you so much for this! I appreciate it very much! You're the best!
Love, max

P.S. Happy Valentine's Day, xparrot

[sholio]

I think they're absolutely right -- keep writing, don't worry about it, but probably do mention (at the end?) that [x] story and yours aren't connected in any way, with a link to [x]. It just seems like the polite thing to do. I swear I remember a time when I did that, but now I can't remember which story it was.

(Of course, now I'm wildly curious which one you're talking about, but I guess I'll find out ...!)

I guess this is one of the pitfalls of writing in a big fandom! I've definitely come across stories after-the-fact, several times, that mirrored some of mine, but I never got the idea that the writer was trying to copy me -- maybe, at most, they might've been inspired by something I wrote (which is terribly flattering, if so!) but I think it was just a case of looking at the source material and jumping to similar conclusions.

After all, at some point someone must have written the first "... and then he turned into a girl!" story, the first alien date-rape drug story (you can tell how I feel about that particular cliche :D ), the first "John and Rodney turn into [animals/flowers/walls]" story. (I was about to type "... the first Canadian Shack!" but then I realized that I actually know who started that -- she's, unsurprisingly, in SGA fandom now.) In any case, I think anybody who's been in fandom for awhile understands that story ideas repeat themselves in that way -- and I doubt if they'll feel as if toes have been stepped upon. (And I'd hate to miss out on a new xparrot story!)

Now having the show ITSELF do a plot that you had in mind ... that's a real story-killer for me, and so far it's happened three times in SGA. I know I could go ahead and finish them, but after seeing the show more or less do the same thing I would have done, much of the shiny is worn off the idea...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm pretty sure I've done something similar myself (linking to a similar fic)...this isn't the first time this has happened, definitely! For that matter, at least once I've had people link to my own fic when they discovered I had beat them to a plot twist, and I never suspected they had 'stolen' from me (really, though I jokingly call it plagiarism, I don't believe you can plagiarize ideas - ideas are the fast part, writing is where the work comes in, and heck, we fic'ers are all doing derivative works anyway, originality is not one of our primary goals!)

It's not even that I really think the author or other people are going to call me on the story similarities, it's more that I worry that with this other story in folks' minds, mine will lose emotional impact...though I won't be ready for posting for another month anyway, likely, so by then hopefully it won't be so freshly remembered.

And the show doing an idea...heh. I was convinced for a while X-files was reading my little-known fic, because they kept copying me (I had a major OC named Agent Pender, and then they added this guy Spender a year later! Coincidence? I think not! Well...okay, yes, but it still cracked me up XP) But when you haven't written the idea and the show beats you to it...yeah, that's annoying. (on the other hand, proof you could totally write for the show! Also your ideas would have more fun h/c, I'm sure!) Fortunately this particular idea...actually has already been touched upon in the show, sort of; and the way I'm doing it I'm not worried we're going to see anything like it, as it has a canon base but goes pretty significantly AU.

[nenya85.livejournal.com]

I’m always afraid of that happening to me because I write such long stories – so I figure the chances are high that sooner or later someone is going to write something that’s similar to whatever I have planned for the conclusion. In a case like that I figure, like a basketball player, I have the right to keep moving to the basket once I start my move.

The closest I came to the situation you’re describing was with Déjà vu – because I got the idea of time travel from an abandoned story, even though I think I took it in very different directions. In that case I did write the author. I almost didn’t write it though. A friend suggested writing the author, and also pointed out, like your sister did, all the differences, especially since the story was abandoned after a couple of chapters.

I think the suggestions you received make sense. I don’t think I’d honestly be able to stop writing a story once it was stuck in my head. And it makes sense that this has to happen sooner or later -- because people do come up with similar ideas. And the more plausible the ideas, the more likely more than one person will think of them.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The advantage of really long stories like yours as that if you post 'em as WiP, you can get your foot in the door, so to speak - you establish yourself as the first one to write something, even if someone else does something similar later (same thing happened to me with SV last year, I was halfway through posting a story when one of the major writers posted a fic with a similar idea - one she'd been working on since before I started mine, so it was totally coincidental; it didn't cause me as much angst, because I was already well on my way. This time I feel like I'm stalling out before I pull out of the driveway ^^;; Fortunately I've got people determined not to let it stall for long!)

Though yeah, I forgot your "Deja Vu" was based on another fic - you did such interesting things with the scenario that it didn't matter in the slightest that it had been done before. And fic is all derivative work anyway...thank you, now I just have to keep telling myself these things, and get back to work on my own story!

[hils.livejournal.com]

Whilst I don't want to be all alarmist I had a similar problem to this a couple of months ago and I didn't think it would be an issue until, after I posted my story, I found myself accused of plagiarism. It was not a fun time and the one thing I can advise that I learned from my experience is to get in touch with the other author and explain what happeed before you post, just so she doesn't get the wrong idea

Maybe also put something in the header stating that you are aware of the similarities but it's totally coincidental

[maigie2010.livejournal.com]

Thanks for airing this. Same problem here and I had a friend who gave the same advice. Just to be sure though, I am contacting the author directly.