I'm a bad yaoi fangirl
Feb. 23rd, 2004 04:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xparrotNew fandom, new fanfic, same old issues. For all that many animanga series give me in canon more of what I crave than nearly any Western show, anime fic too rarely satisfies. Mainly because despite my One True Pairing tendencies, I'm honestly not that into pairings--any pairings, a kink which puts me at odds with fundamental fangirl tenets. Ranting to follow, with the caveat that I know my tastes are not the norm, but after this long they're unlikely to change. I'm always up for trying to figure out why I like certain things, and I have my theories, but when it comes down to it, I like what I like and knowing why doesn't alter that I do.
First off, lemme get this straight - I am a yaoi fangirl. I own and love Kizuna, KKH, Gravitation, FAKE. I read Smallville slash and suspect Ban and Ginji are locked in passionate liplocks whenever the camera pans away from their hugs. This wasn't always the case; for a while I avoided slash, on the principle that I didn't like romance. While that's no longer so, the truth is, I've always loved stories about friendship more than sexual attraction. "Smarm", it's called in some Western fandoms - "the physical/verbal display of platonic friendship". I'm a hopeless hurt/comfort junky and a smarm fan to the end; giving into slash did not affect that. I'll enjoy a good bit of smut, but give me two guys putting their lives on the line for one another, and you'll melt me into a puddle of fangirl goo faster than a box of Crayolas cast into the sun.
Obviously h/c and slash are not mutually exclusive; where would yaoi be without comfort sex? But platonic love can be just as appealing. And here's where I run into problems, because anime gen fic is a rare phenomenon, and too often it's what I most crave.
I'm not sure why it's unusual. In most of my Western* fandoms, there was a strong gen contingent. Stargate has tons of Jack/Daniel (and Sam/Jack, but there's only one blonde officer making it with her colonel that I care for at present, and they're not it), but scads of well-written team-fic as well, and a surprising amount of authors who divide their time between both. I only wrote gen for The Sentinel, and was far from alone. Even X-files had quite a number of fics in which Mulder & Scully stayed true to their show-selves and solved cases together with extreme angst but no forays under the covers.
[*in case it isn't self evident, by "Western" I mean North American & European shows, movies, cartoons, etc. Not really into the whole cowboy thing unless it's Bebop or Trigun]
In most anime fandoms, however, it's difficult to find any fic in any fandom that doesn't involve someone lusting for someone else, be it a het or yaoi coupling. And I'll be damned if I know why.
Obviously if you're writing a fic for, say, Fushigi Yuugi or X/1999, the majority of your chars have gotta be romantically interested or else they're not going to be in char. And yes, to write a long story in which no one is thinking about a special someone or sex in general is not going to be believable if your chars are over twelve. But does it always have to be the central theme? Go to ff.net's anime category and page through the archives of a show; how many fics don't have a pairing or two or six listed in the summary?
I'm not anti-romance; the amount of shoujo manga on my bookcases would debunk that argument fast enough. But take a look over my oeuvre of fanfic, and consider that most of the time, what I write is what I want to read. I've got one long story with a focus on a romantic relationship, though it wouldn't be classified as a romance (it's for Final Fantasy 8. I like Squall/Rinoa. Sue me. I also like Miaka/Tamahome and Cyclops/Jean Grey, so you'll have plenty of supporting evidence). The rest of my longer stories may have touches of romance, but tend to focus on friendships, partners, teams, "brothers in blood", etc. You'd also note that a lot of the relationships I love to pieces in canon - those above, not to mention Van/Hitomi, Sheridan/Delenn, Enjouji/Ranmaru, many more--I don't read or write about. I like them, but I don't crave more action than what we're given.
Even when I do read yaoi/slash fic, it often is for the story--no, really!--the character relationships involved; once they're in bed, unless it's damn fine writing I'll usually skim. I can argue I'm not that into smut because there's only so many ways to write a guy banging another guy, or a girl, or whatever; you run out of metaphors and bodyparts sooner or later. But that doesn't explain why I don't tire of snowfic h/c, even though there's only so many ways to save a hypothermic buddy, and no matter how many times one char screams his friend's name when said friend goes down in a fight, I'll still love the next time they do it. I can't say why sacrifice and concern and empathy stir me quite as they do, but a well-written affirmation of friendship will move me more than the hottest sex scene. My bro calls the over-the-top h/c and smarm stuff my personal porn...embarrassingly accurately.
It doesn't help that over time I've become a fanfic snob; I want well-written, grammatically correct, in character stories, preferably with a modicum of plot to keep things moving. All this, and for someone to get injured or mentally tortured or whatever, so I get their friends worrying about them. And while I'm at it, I'm an inveterate lover of happy endings as well.
When I first got into anime, I was assuming that since that kind of thing was so thrillingly prevalent in the canon--how many fight shounen don't have the scene when the best friend/rival goes down and the hero goes psycho, often with tears and flashbacks?--there would be plenty of fic with it. And sure, there was tons of fic out there--but more people cared about how Vegeta and Bulma got together than exploring the complexities of Vegeta and Goku's relationship, and no one at all wrote about Tasuki and Tamahome's friendship despite all their squabbling. It was a disappointment--but I did find some excellent DBZ out there of the sort I wanted; luck of the draw, maybe I'd picked poorer fandoms.
Four years and countless animanga later, I'm still going back to my Western fandoms when I want a good dose of h/c smarm, and not just because word for word, Western fandoms have better-written fic (Western fans tend to be older; anime fen are mostly teens, while the majority of Western fen are 20s-50s. Not to say there aren't some 16 years old who write better than some 30 year olds, but in general older fen are more discriminating) And this frustrates me, because there's a lot of anime fandoms for which I'd love to read some good friendship stories.
I thought for a time that I had it made - with GetBackers and Saiyuki, the friendships I fell in love with I also saw romantic sides to; I wanted them to see them be more than just friends. Maybe I was at last becoming a true yaoi fangirl, squeeing madly over my favorite couples with hearts in my eyes and shoujo bubbles in the air! Disregard that in Saiyuki my favorite relationship became Gojyo and Sanzo's sniping, though I'm a 58/39 girl so deeply and completely that alternate numerology almost makes me cry--and it was easy enough to ignore my love of the platonic Ban-Shido dynamic in the overwhelming light of the BanGin. (Ignore, too, that my main reason for wanting BanGin is because I can't see them with anyone else, more than wanting to see them with each other. Which isn't to say I don't want to see it, but it's outweighed by the friendship factor, which explains the paucity of sex in my GB fic, if you were wondering.)
And then I got into FullMetal Alchemist, and now One Piece, and I'm back to square one - not seeing any slash, hardly seeing any het, and not wanting any pairings because the relationships that most interest me aren't a whit romantic or sexual. FMA isn't so much an issue, because I'm not especially interested in reading fic for it; One Piece is another story altogether, but I'll save that rant for another day. OP is a bigger problem for me than most; in a lot of my fandoms, it's not that I'm against the yaoi, it's just I enjoy more. There are other relationships every bit as compelling, intense, and fascinating as the sexual or the romantic, and I wish those realms were more explored.
And if you know of some good gen anime fic, go ahead and point 'em my way!
First off, lemme get this straight - I am a yaoi fangirl. I own and love Kizuna, KKH, Gravitation, FAKE. I read Smallville slash and suspect Ban and Ginji are locked in passionate liplocks whenever the camera pans away from their hugs. This wasn't always the case; for a while I avoided slash, on the principle that I didn't like romance. While that's no longer so, the truth is, I've always loved stories about friendship more than sexual attraction. "Smarm", it's called in some Western fandoms - "the physical/verbal display of platonic friendship". I'm a hopeless hurt/comfort junky and a smarm fan to the end; giving into slash did not affect that. I'll enjoy a good bit of smut, but give me two guys putting their lives on the line for one another, and you'll melt me into a puddle of fangirl goo faster than a box of Crayolas cast into the sun.
Obviously h/c and slash are not mutually exclusive; where would yaoi be without comfort sex? But platonic love can be just as appealing. And here's where I run into problems, because anime gen fic is a rare phenomenon, and too often it's what I most crave.
I'm not sure why it's unusual. In most of my Western* fandoms, there was a strong gen contingent. Stargate has tons of Jack/Daniel (and Sam/Jack, but there's only one blonde officer making it with her colonel that I care for at present, and they're not it), but scads of well-written team-fic as well, and a surprising amount of authors who divide their time between both. I only wrote gen for The Sentinel, and was far from alone. Even X-files had quite a number of fics in which Mulder & Scully stayed true to their show-selves and solved cases together with extreme angst but no forays under the covers.
[*in case it isn't self evident, by "Western" I mean North American & European shows, movies, cartoons, etc. Not really into the whole cowboy thing unless it's Bebop or Trigun]
In most anime fandoms, however, it's difficult to find any fic in any fandom that doesn't involve someone lusting for someone else, be it a het or yaoi coupling. And I'll be damned if I know why.
Obviously if you're writing a fic for, say, Fushigi Yuugi or X/1999, the majority of your chars have gotta be romantically interested or else they're not going to be in char. And yes, to write a long story in which no one is thinking about a special someone or sex in general is not going to be believable if your chars are over twelve. But does it always have to be the central theme? Go to ff.net's anime category and page through the archives of a show; how many fics don't have a pairing or two or six listed in the summary?
I'm not anti-romance; the amount of shoujo manga on my bookcases would debunk that argument fast enough. But take a look over my oeuvre of fanfic, and consider that most of the time, what I write is what I want to read. I've got one long story with a focus on a romantic relationship, though it wouldn't be classified as a romance (it's for Final Fantasy 8. I like Squall/Rinoa. Sue me. I also like Miaka/Tamahome and Cyclops/Jean Grey, so you'll have plenty of supporting evidence). The rest of my longer stories may have touches of romance, but tend to focus on friendships, partners, teams, "brothers in blood", etc. You'd also note that a lot of the relationships I love to pieces in canon - those above, not to mention Van/Hitomi, Sheridan/Delenn, Enjouji/Ranmaru, many more--I don't read or write about. I like them, but I don't crave more action than what we're given.
Even when I do read yaoi/slash fic, it often is for the story--no, really!--the character relationships involved; once they're in bed, unless it's damn fine writing I'll usually skim. I can argue I'm not that into smut because there's only so many ways to write a guy banging another guy, or a girl, or whatever; you run out of metaphors and bodyparts sooner or later. But that doesn't explain why I don't tire of snowfic h/c, even though there's only so many ways to save a hypothermic buddy, and no matter how many times one char screams his friend's name when said friend goes down in a fight, I'll still love the next time they do it. I can't say why sacrifice and concern and empathy stir me quite as they do, but a well-written affirmation of friendship will move me more than the hottest sex scene. My bro calls the over-the-top h/c and smarm stuff my personal porn...embarrassingly accurately.
It doesn't help that over time I've become a fanfic snob; I want well-written, grammatically correct, in character stories, preferably with a modicum of plot to keep things moving. All this, and for someone to get injured or mentally tortured or whatever, so I get their friends worrying about them. And while I'm at it, I'm an inveterate lover of happy endings as well.
When I first got into anime, I was assuming that since that kind of thing was so thrillingly prevalent in the canon--how many fight shounen don't have the scene when the best friend/rival goes down and the hero goes psycho, often with tears and flashbacks?--there would be plenty of fic with it. And sure, there was tons of fic out there--but more people cared about how Vegeta and Bulma got together than exploring the complexities of Vegeta and Goku's relationship, and no one at all wrote about Tasuki and Tamahome's friendship despite all their squabbling. It was a disappointment--but I did find some excellent DBZ out there of the sort I wanted; luck of the draw, maybe I'd picked poorer fandoms.
Four years and countless animanga later, I'm still going back to my Western fandoms when I want a good dose of h/c smarm, and not just because word for word, Western fandoms have better-written fic (Western fans tend to be older; anime fen are mostly teens, while the majority of Western fen are 20s-50s. Not to say there aren't some 16 years old who write better than some 30 year olds, but in general older fen are more discriminating) And this frustrates me, because there's a lot of anime fandoms for which I'd love to read some good friendship stories.
I thought for a time that I had it made - with GetBackers and Saiyuki, the friendships I fell in love with I also saw romantic sides to; I wanted them to see them be more than just friends. Maybe I was at last becoming a true yaoi fangirl, squeeing madly over my favorite couples with hearts in my eyes and shoujo bubbles in the air! Disregard that in Saiyuki my favorite relationship became Gojyo and Sanzo's sniping, though I'm a 58/39 girl so deeply and completely that alternate numerology almost makes me cry--and it was easy enough to ignore my love of the platonic Ban-Shido dynamic in the overwhelming light of the BanGin. (Ignore, too, that my main reason for wanting BanGin is because I can't see them with anyone else, more than wanting to see them with each other. Which isn't to say I don't want to see it, but it's outweighed by the friendship factor, which explains the paucity of sex in my GB fic, if you were wondering.)
And then I got into FullMetal Alchemist, and now One Piece, and I'm back to square one - not seeing any slash, hardly seeing any het, and not wanting any pairings because the relationships that most interest me aren't a whit romantic or sexual. FMA isn't so much an issue, because I'm not especially interested in reading fic for it; One Piece is another story altogether, but I'll save that rant for another day. OP is a bigger problem for me than most; in a lot of my fandoms, it's not that I'm against the yaoi, it's just I enjoy more. There are other relationships every bit as compelling, intense, and fascinating as the sexual or the romantic, and I wish those realms were more explored.
And if you know of some good gen anime fic, go ahead and point 'em my way!
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no subject
Date: 2004-02-23 01:37 pm (UTC)Also, unrelenting UST builds need for some form of resolution -- are you about ready to give us more Nick+Seth?
-Mari
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 07:55 am (UTC)There's something to the "fill in the blank" ideas, but there's hardly a Western show I know of that doesn't have some UST, and while some writers invariably will exploit that, there's still a lot of gen, relatively speaking. Agree that the age difference is probably a major factor...I was the oddball, had no interest in sex when I was a young teen, in fiction or otherwise... ^^;
And my own UST...there will be more Nick/Seth, but...er...that one's gonna go U for a while yet. Keep the faith, tho', even if there's other stuff going on, I promise haven't forgotten them...
no subject
Date: 2004-02-23 03:50 pm (UTC)What I think the overall problem is, in both Western AND anime fandoms, is that writers--and humanity, as a whole--are obsessed with the idea of romantic love. It's been glorified forever throughout all forms of literature and performance throughout history; since childhood, at least in America, we've been inundated with the idea that there MUST be a romance, there MUST be someone who's in love with someone else or else the story loses something. Take movies for example--they can be almost painfully predictable about who's going to end up together in the end, even for a movie presumably about friendship. You get this a LOT with younger fen, especially those who're at the stage of boyfriends and dating and OMG HAWTIE! (which I seemed to have bypassed entirely, but what the hell, I think I have more fun that way XD).
Songs, too--I don't listen to the radio at all any more, because I got sick and tired of love songs or breakup songs or what-have-you-something-with-romance songs. I gloat and glitter over bands that have no love songs; the reason Bad Religion has scored so high with me is that the ONLY lovesong I've heard from them is "I Love My Computer," which is just funny. XD But, still, there's that same thread of "love is all, and it's not a good story if you don't have it"--hence why so much of fen is insistent on putting SOME kind of het or slash into all fics.
I'm all for gen and the friendship; even my GB fic, where I'm a hardcore mindless OMGOTP! BanGin fan, I think I may only have one or two outright slashfics; the rest can be construed as gen on the same level the series itself is. (Which is to say, if you're snarky, it ain't gen at all, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief, it's all good!) There's just the issue that so much anime fen is OMGRELATIONSHIP! and thus genfic gets buried under the masses.
I wish you luck in finding anything! Please pass along anything for any of our shared series? ♥
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 08:24 am (UTC)You're right that the need for romance is an endemic problem to the body of human fiction in general, tho' there are the exceptions (quite a few war stories with no romance 'cuz no femme chars...which doesn't preclude romance, of course, but slash wasn't an explored option for so long.) What gets me most is that there is that large body of genfic in Western fandoms--for the longest time, I was content with what friendshipping I got in regular stories, along with the inevitable romance. And then I discovered the h/c genre and fanfic, lo, not a kissing book, but stories all about the true love of buddies! I don't think I'd be nearly as frustrated with anime fic if I didn't have that background of dozens of Blair-gets-shot-and-Jim-worries/Daniel-gets-trashed-and-Jack-worries, stories written by people like me who obviously had other interests than romance. (not to say a lot of said stories aren't as garbage as the most hopelessly OOC lemon, but when I first started reading fic I was just so thrilled to find what I'd craved that I didn't care) I just wish more of those authors would find their way into anime.
And if I find anything good I'll let you know <3 So far, lots of agreement, no suggestions...(c'mon people! get writing!)
no subject
Date: 2004-02-23 04:46 pm (UTC)I was against slash and all from the very beginning, because besides not liking romance, it seemed...horrible to ruin this friendship and make it some sex driven thing.
But if I wanted to read fics for some anime, I had to read yaoi. And for a while I was into a yaoi/slashy kick but I quickly slid out of them and also back to square one because...most stories ruin relationship horribly when it comes down to it. No matter what 'story' there is, it's almost always there as a means to get two characters in bed. And the sex is always the same--there's a seme and an uke, and suddenly you've lost the characters and what you have is your General Yaoi Pairing. And I hate that.
I love Saiyuki, it's where I'm at. The manga keeps me hooked every time. The characters are actively changing, and while that happens in all stories, good ones anyway, it's usually not so...apparent. The people the boys will be at the end are not the ones they were at the beginning. And for them to end up...sliding into relationships (58 and 39, respectively.) almosts seems natural.
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 08:45 am (UTC)But yes, and yes - not all yaoi stories ruin relationships, but too many do, especially when they sacrifice character for the sake of hawt sexxx. I like yaoi when it brings something to a relationship. The tension in Hakkai and Gojyo's dynamic really reads as sexual to me, discord in an otherwise comfortable friendship of opposites; while as Gojyo and Sanzo's clashing is a matter of personalities. You can see something sexual there, but that's just a facet of their conflict and reducing it to just desire is denying the main point. Gojyo doesn't flirt with Sanzo because he's attracted to him (even if he might be); he flirts because he enjoys ticking Sanzo off (has a deathwish, that kappa...)
And the seme/uke thing drives me nuts. I really started out in slash, which tends not to have as fixed roles; confused me when I got into yaoi. Having a designated "woman" seemed to defeat the purpose of guy/guy! It amuses me more than anything now, but most of my favorite pairings I see as interchangeable anyway.
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 02:39 pm (UTC)But I can see things working out between Gojyo and Hakkai...it seems inevitable. And for there to be anything *but* Sanzo and Goku almost seems wrong. Not right now, of course. Goku's going to have to do a little maturing, and Sanzo's going to have to come to terms with some things. And their relationship doesn't even have to be sexual--at least not for a long time coming.
But to make either one of them the bottom just seems...wrong. Just because Goku's smaller in stature, or because Hakkai is quieter in nature isn't grounds for them to be the uke. It aggravates me to no end that the anime characters have to slide into these roles, and that they lose all sense of self, and they stop becoming their *character* and just some whiny, whimpering female.
I've found some really done Saiyuki stuff, for what it's worth.
And I've found that for the most part, American slash is completely superior. There's still times when you get the crazy fangirls--for sad example, once Lord of the Rings became a movie...the influx of bad fanfiction tripled within a week. And it was all anime fans, because there were suddenly words like 'yaoi' and that doesn't exist in the LOTR world.
Oh, also! I liked your update to "Learning to Breathe" ::nods::
no subject
Date: 2004-09-28 01:54 pm (UTC)Really? Because I had the opposite experience-- too many Bottom!Blair fics out there to count. Then I ran into anime and found blessed yaoi...and eventually found all that bottom crap all over again, just in a different language!
Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-23 06:41 pm (UTC)Stories with emotionally intimate relationships and h/c are the best. Ever. Smarm -- I miss thee so.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I agree with you. :P Rock on! By the way, this is Quatrina Raberba from ff.net. I was just looking at your LJ and saw your insightful remarks, and I had to make my own comment. ^^;
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-24 08:59 am (UTC)And I know just what you mean about your first discovery of h/c. It hit me the same way - I loved it for years, but for the longest time thought I was some bizarre sadistic freak (I loved seeing my favorite chars hurt! what was wrong with me?) Star Trek novels were my first introduction, since I didn't have internet access until college; I was absolutely amazed to find such concentrated doses of the intense friendshipping I always loved most...
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-24 06:25 pm (UTC)Oh, yes, I totally know what you mean about the whole sadistic thing. It was my little secret that I basked in h/c for the longest time, and I really did wonder if there was something wrong with me. I've always loved the gut-wrenching feeling that good h/c gives me. I've only met one other person who gets the same feeling and enjoys it. It's quite amusing. Or have I just over stepped the bounds of being a sadistic person? :P
And, yes, although filled with slash, the Star Trek fandom has tons of smarm as well. I've read a few of the novels myself, but I'd say the relationship between Kirk and Spock fascinated me most. The Vulcan word "T'hy'la" (which, if I recall, was also used in several novels) is extremely intriguing to me, and I often wished there was an equivalent in the English language. "Friend" is a word that's used way too casually, in my opinion, and I find it hard to convey the significance of it to a lot of people. The use of brother or sister is probably more efficient in that sense.
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-24 07:20 pm (UTC)I was lucky to find that my sister shared my sadistic tastes, and since then I've found a few more people who know that warm squirmy feeling in your belly that good h/c evokes...but we are a special breed ^_^
T'hy'la! wow! haven't thought of that in years!! Some of the early novels were absolutely delicious (there were a few semi-official publications from zines, out of print but discovered in used bookstores, that gave me the purest h/c I found until I hit the 'net) And yes, Kirk-Spock, totally, all the way. Presently I can see the slash there (really, with pon farr they made it unavoidable) but at the time it was all about the friendship. (have recently been reminded of some of the dynamics of Kirk & Spock by a certain other headstrong, emotional, impulsive captain and his long-suffering but impossibly loyal first mate ^___^ But then in my head Sanji starts up with the, "Dammit, Luffy, I'm a cook, not a xylophone player!" and it all goes to hell...)
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-24 07:46 pm (UTC)Concerning that wonderful feeling in the pit of your stomach -- yes, a rare breed indeed. I pity the rest of the human race.
I've seen massive ST fan-zines that have been published on the net. Most of which are Kirk&Spock. I've thought about certain elements of their relationship being reflected in Luffy and Zoro's relationship also. Often times, the bond between captain and first mate is portrayed as strong and true. I love. I get what you're saying about the pon farr stuff, though. I've wondered about that myself -- I guess there really wouldn't be very many options. But many fans, being the dutiful writers that they are, have taken that theory upon themselves. But you probably already knew that.
--Hah hah! Sanji! I can almost see him saying that, too. Oh, the humanity...
Re: !!!
Date: 2004-02-24 11:15 pm (UTC)OMG I love you...well, at least I loove to find another person that understands that feeling!! Mmm...my wonderful h/c (I just got outta a three hour lecture in which I spent the entire thing drawing pics, most of which were hurt guys holding each other...and luffy carrying Sanji for neechan but that's another matter, ne neechan? ;) ) I just always get this warm squishy feeling...especially at collapses...and just...yeah...err, gomen for the complete lack of coherency, been a LONG day...
but its always so wonderful to find others who enjoy the wonders of smarm and h/c. Since entering into the world of anime fanning...three? four...years ago...four now I think...? I've discovered quite a few fellow yaoi fans, even some fellow h/c fans...sorta...but none who really understand the joys of smarm and the friendship sans the sexual relations.
Other than Star Trek, what other Western fandoms have you inhabited? Over the years we've gone through...um...a LOT...a lot a lot...its so great, there's been several fandoms we've gotten into purely because we see like one episode and there's some worry or h/c and boom, we hound down that fandom...X-files comes to mind "but neechan, they WORRY 'bout each other "
And you say an OP fic? angst and h/c? weee...those are always wonderful! ....right neechan?! *cough* wantmoreofthatficeventhoughI'vebeenorderednottoaskforit! Gomen...getting off track....
Actually, for that matter, what other anime fandoms have you made your way through other than the joys of One Piece...of which have just JUST gotten into...and have now seen as much as the subs were available..a.nd then ran out...so started renting it raw...and then ran out of that...so um...yeah...and now read all of the manga that's scanlated..which I think is pretty much everything and OMG need more...err...yeah. I'm better now, realllly I am!
I think I'll shut up now cause um...yeah, I've rambled Waaaaay to long, but truly is wonderful to find another h/c smarm lover! Few and far between, especially in the anime community so we must all unite together! err...or something! *is shot
Re: !!!
Date: 2004-02-25 01:45 pm (UTC)Really, it's been so long, I don't remember all of the Western fandoms I've been into. I think the first one I really got involved in was Hogan's Heroes. :P It happened the same way you described what happens before you're converted -- there was one moment, one scene, that makes you dive into that fandom. "Am I sadistic? Is there something WRONG with me?! Argh, I don't care -- I want more of it!" It's really funny, though, because as goofy as that show is, there are a chunk of angsty, fairly h/c fanfics to go around. Which is more or less the time smarm first ate my soul, and it hasn't let go since. The people in that fandom are usually really nice, though, and get along really well. They don't argue about pairings there, nope -- they just mildly disagree on who is closer friends with who. For some reason, that struck me as great.
I had ventured into various other fandoms, but never really wrote for them. I just read their smarm stories and waddled away happily onto the next fandom of interest. Like you, however, I've been involved with the anime fandom for about four years. I mainly started out with stuff like DragonBall Z and Gundam Wing, like many people, but left those fandoms completely after a long time of watching people scream at each other about who should be paired with who. Neither were really good places to find the kind of stuff I was looking for. Not to say that there weren't any well-written stories there, I just wanted to find some nice h/c smarm. That was around the time I fell into the Star Trek fandom. I flirted with the Star Wars fandom not long after, too. I was surprised and delighted at the good chunk of h/c I found in both fandoms.
Other anime fandoms I've jumped around in are Naruto, Trigun, Outlaw Star, Gundam 0079 and Cowboy Bebop. But I'll flitter around to look for some good fic in other areas, depending on my mood. What about you? What are the kinds of fandoms you've been involved and what did you think of them in regards to the h/c factor?
I sympathize about the lack of OP, though. I just got in 16 more episodes from good old Hong Kong, and I'm all read dreading over what I'll do when I run out.
It's nice to see other people who know about the warm, squishy feeling in the stomach when something awful happens to a character. Looks like we should start a smarm community on LJ. XP
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-25 05:29 am (UTC)Hmmm, ST fanzines online? Got links? with Kirk-Spock friendshippiness or slash? I've seen a fair bit of slash online, but...wouldn't mind some plain old smarmy h/c with 'em...
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-25 01:58 pm (UTC)As for that link, I've got one for you. You're in luck, too, because it's filled to the brim with Kirk-Spock stuff. I don't know if you're familiar with Gloria Fry, but she's written many out-of-print fanzines and has since published them on the internet for all to see. (At least, that's what I gathered.) Here you go:
http://www.fry16.freeserve.co.uk/
There are a variety of stories on there, most of which being quite lengthy. Although it's been years since I've read them, the ones that stick out to me the most are the T'Varon chronicles, an AU in which Kirk is the first human to serve on an all Vulcan ship and how he works to gain the trust and friendship of a certain Spock. :P
Have fun!
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-25 05:32 am (UTC)Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-25 09:16 am (UTC)Heh. I guess I belong to that rare breed too, then. ^_^ I know exactly the feeling the two of you describe. :P I've been like that all my life - I always loved the scenes where the heroes were suffering (in canon, long before I even heard of fanfiction), and I often felt a bit ashamed of it. But now I know several people who feel the same, so I guess I'm not a sadistic freak? ^^
Re: Agreed!
Date: 2004-02-25 03:23 pm (UTC)Re: !!!
Date: 2004-02-24 10:57 pm (UTC)O_O!
ok. you two. while i am able to semi-talk to you two, i want to say THANK YOU. because what X-Parrot is talking about in the entry is EXACTLY what you two write! i've been freakishly watching OP and reading the manga and have now ordered some HK subs because i MustHaveMore, but i was largely unable to go into the fandom.. one, because there are a shitload of spoilers around that NO ONE seems to be warning about (>_< i think i spoiled one of the biggest secrets just by downloading a wallpaper -_-) but beyond that because i happen to also love smarm and i wasn't really finding anything wonderful when i looked around. it's not that the fics were BAD i was finding, they just werent what i really really wanted to find. but then i found you two, and i'm now sooo hooked and happy that i want to chain you both to your desks and FORCE you to write more! >=D i will do it toooo trust meeee >=D
i actually have a lot of things i wanted to comment on after reading your long correspondence back and forth, but these stupid comment boxes usually cut me off in the middle of talking.. i guess mostly i wanted to say that i dont know about this Western thing, cuz ive never read anything in the Western fandoms, but if Western fandoms are like how you guys write, it has to be amazing there *_*
one of you (i think X-parrot) said this:
And I know just what you mean about your first discovery of h/c. It hit me the same way - I loved it for years, but for the longest time thought I was some bizarre sadistic freak (I loved seeing my favorite chars hurt! what was wrong with me?)
LOL it's SO TRUE XD i do the same thing.. my favorite episodes have consistently been the ones in which my favorite characters were having the most trouble. i LOVE the h/c factor... it freaking gets me every time. i would squeal like a fangirl and glomp a pillow at a h/c scene much sooner than i'd get all googly-eyed over, say, a sex scene.
it's SO GREAT seeing others think the same way ^_^ i will admit i am also a sucker for happy endings. i love my fics and animes FULL of angst, with tons of h/c scenes and emotional torture interspersed with random happy times... and a good ending that doesnt make me feel like i just had my heart torn out, thrown on the floor, and stomped on all to hell. i think it was X-parrot who said that the transition into writing fics was when you didn't see what you wanted to read? something like that? that's how i started out too. though as of now, i've only written Gundam Wing (with one short bit of Ronin Warriors long ago), i've wandered around a lot of fandoms and frequently get frustrated when i don't see what i want to read. i guess i just don't feel confident enough to write anyone other than the GW characters, though, so i don't write for the other fandoms even when i'm constantly complaining at the lack of the Fics I Want To See. that being said, i want to thank you both again for writing for One Piece. i sincerely hope you both continue... your fics are amazing and REALLY want more!
ok that's all ^^; sorry for the random accostation XD
btw, i'm Ais (aka MikAAislin Nymph) from.. uh. GW XD i doubt you know me ^_^
Re: O_O!
Date: 2004-03-18 07:32 pm (UTC)I used to be an active member of the GW fandom -- that was a few years ago. I know what you mean about not being able to find fanfics that suit your taste. That's sort of how it was with me for pretty much any fandom I went into. There were a lot of good ones (amidst the bad and the ugly, as in almost any fandom), but very few actually struck that smarm chord. Especially in GW. In fact, I really can't recall ever reading a GW fanfic that wasn't het or yaoi somehow. Either that, they just focused on one character. <.<...plus, people just got so snarky about their favorite pairings. It was scary.
I know what you mean about having a hard time adjust to the OP fandom for fear of spoilers. I had to just go ahead and order the HK subs myself, like you. It's very difficult to mingle there if you don't have some knowledge of OP up to the Arlong story arc. Although, I have seen some people do it successfully. They gave away a lot of the series for themselves, though. It's good you're watching the anime. The voice acting his fantastic, in my opinion, and really brings everything to life.
Thanks for the encouragement in writing! XD I'll try and write plenty so you won't have to chain me up and make me write where "morbid" things happen to our favorite fictional friends. *laughs*
Re: O_O!
Date: 2004-03-18 08:19 pm (UTC)It's nice to know some people from the OP fandom know of me. XD 'Tis an honor writing smarm for anyone who wants to read it.
its good to be known, isnt it? ^__^ and it's an honor to read ^_^
I know what you mean about not being able to find fanfics that suit your taste. That's sort of how it was with me for pretty much any fandom I went into.
i hate that so much... once you find a few authors, usually it's ok, cuz then you can read everything they have and check links off their sites or look for places that rec them or ask them for their favorite authors... but even then you can exhaust your resources quickly -_-
I really can't recall ever reading a GW fanfic that wasn't het or yaoi somehow. Either that, they just focused on one character.
LOL yeah its totally true. theres probably a gen fic here or there... i think i remember maybe reading one or two or hearing of them... but its verrrry rare. there's definitely a focus on one character thing.
<.<...plus, people just got so snarky about their favorite pairings. It was scary.
LOL! yes XD its actually pretty amusing if you step back and dont get involved, but yes. theres definitely that XD especially between het and yaoi. did you have a preferred pairing? im just curious.. im not going to yell at you or anything XD
very difficult to mingle there if you don't have some knowledge of OP up to the Arlong story arc.
yeah, no kidding! im lucky enough that i think i was beyond or approaching Arlong when i checked into the fandom, but even so, you can find tons of spoilers even way beyond that. it's kinda frustrating, but i guess it enforces the decision to go beyond and see as much of the anime/read as much manga as possible...
The voice acting his fantastic, in my opinion, and really brings everything to life.
YES. it IS! i cringe when i think about what OP would be like dubbed... im usually very much into subbing above dubbing, but especially here... Luffy.. Zoro... Usopp.. Sanji.. Nami.. all of them... their voices fit them so perfectly. Zoro gets such a great growl sometimes.. i LOVE how Luffy's voice goes from being totally clueless and cheerful to screaming or soft and breaking (like when he's talking to Don Krieg about graves *_*).. *____* eeee! *loves OP and the seiyuus a LOT*
Thanks for the encouragement in writing! XD I'll try and write plenty so you won't have to chain me up and make me write where "morbid" things happen to our favorite fictional friends. *laughs*
LOL! excellent! as much as you write, i will read! definitely ^__^ also, it's probably better this way ^_~ now i dont have to risk putting you into a permanent writer's block while you fear for your life or something XD
Re: O_O!
Date: 2004-03-22 03:12 pm (UTC)Thank you!
i hate that so much... once you find a few authors, usually it's ok, cuz then you can read everything they have and check links off their sites or look for places that rec them or ask them for their favorite authors... but even then you can exhaust your resources quickly -_-
I can totally relate. That's especially frusterating if the fandom is really small. But I suppose it can be just as irritating in a large fandom, too. It's like sorting through an endless sea for that one pearl.
LOL! yes XD its actually pretty amusing if you step back and dont get involved, but yes. theres definitely that XD especially between het and yaoi. did you have a preferred pairing? im just curious.. im not going to yell at you or anything XD
Amusing, yes, but if you're involved in the fandom...the fray just sucks you in, whether you want it to or not. :P It was especially sad to see great websites close down because of such foolish arguing. Het and yaoi can be a real killer, but yaoi fans could get just as snarky at each other sometimes. Same with het, actually. You'd think they'd appreciate different tastes, with so many characters to pair. ^^; (I'm just glad we don't see too much of that in the OP fandom...yet. ^^; )
As for preferred pairings, I had a few -- kind of. I did enjoy reading anything with Quatre and Trowa in it, although I was more interested in seeing an emotional relationship between them instead of the physical one many liked portraying. Out of all of the "traditional" shounen-ai pairings, though, I thought those two had the most evidence supporting the possibility. (I never saw where 1x2 came from. Oo)
I also sort of fancied Quatre and Noin as a pair, to be honest. ^^; I think I was one out of...maybe three? Two people? Oooh, I totally got slapped for that one. "Noin belongs with Zechs! ZECHS!!" Granted, Noin and Zechs were a canon pairing (And I never disliked them together or anything!)...but...shoot...something about Quatre and Noin pulled my heart strings. X3 Maybe it was the subtle interaction between them during the battle at the Sank Kingdom? But I wasn't some sort of diehard fan of it or anything...I just thought it was cute. ^^; Is that so wrong? To many, yes. A reason why I left the fandom.
And, yes, I liked Quatre. ^^; And no, I didn't hate Dorothy. I actually liked her and wanted to see the fandom treat her better than they did/do. She's insane, yes, but I really did wind up feeling sorry for her by the end of it. (And, secretly, maybe I did like Quatre and Dorothy as a pairing together.) *gasp* I was a Quatre-fan traitor. Grr.
How about you? Any pairings for you? Even if you just dabbled in them? XP
yeah, no kidding! im lucky enough that i think i was beyond or approaching Arlong when i checked into the fandom, but even so, you can find tons of spoilers even way beyond that. it's kinda frustrating, but i guess it enforces the decision to go beyond and see as much of the anime/read as much manga as possible...
For sure. Just out of curiousity, how far are you into the series? Which story arc was your favorite? I'm curious what kind of wallpaper you saw that was so spoil-rific.
YES. it IS! i cringe when i think about what OP would be like dubbed... im usually very much into subbing above dubbing, but especially here... Luffy.. Zoro... Usopp.. Sanji.. Nami.. all of them... their voices fit them so perfectly. Zoro gets such a great growl sometimes.. i LOVE how Luffy's voice goes from being totally clueless and cheerful to screaming or soft and breaking (like when he's talking to Don Krieg about graves *_*).. *____* eeee! *loves OP and the seiyuus a LOT*
AMEN! I don't think I'll be able to bring myself in watching the dubbed version. Luffy's voice being played by a man seems just wrong. Oo (You know his VA will be male. Probably.)
LOL! excellent! as much as you write, i will read! definitely ^__^ also, it's probably better this way ^_~ now i dont have to risk putting you into a permanent writer's block while you fear for your life or something XD
Eee! Thank you for the kind words! XD I appreciate it!
Re: O_O! (part 1... doh >_<)
Date: 2004-03-22 04:18 pm (UTC)yeahh.. i guess no matter what we pretty much lose XD
Amusing, yes, but if you're involved in the fandom...the fray just sucks you in, whether you want it to or not. :P
XD yeah, it does. its a massive heathenous whirlpoooool! *dramadrama* XD sorry, i like poking fun at the fandom XD though i agreed with what you said... its pretty tragic. sites go down, authors disappear, fights break out, etc etc... there have even been some friendships seemingly permanently damaged over stuff like pairings -_- i dont really .. think that's the most conducive way to live, but live and let live, i guess ^^
eee Quatre *_* he was what pulled me into the fandom. *lovehimlots* i actually came into the fandom, like you said, thinking only Trowa and Quatre made sense. i pretty much regarded the 1x2ers as strange beings but let them go about their business. buuut somehow i got sucked into 1x2 O_o i dont know how. i definitely dont mind that people dont see it ^_^ i didnt at first, so hi, i cant blame them lol i just now think its adorable or something, im not really sure. Quatre and Noin.. haha! yeahhh dont hear that one much. yeah it was a pretty cute scene with the Sank Kingdom, though, so i cant blame you ^_^ they probably COULD be pretty adorable. as for Dorothy? O_O! *GLOMP* DUDE THANK YOU! i also LOVE Dorothy! i admit, first when i watched i was all "RAR BITCH DONT HURT MY QUATRE!" but later i was all "awww ;_; Dorothyyy *comforts her*" i wish more people liked her. she's really cool. there was an lj community for awhile that had all the main GW characters in it and i got to play Dorothy ^_^ and she wasnt evil, damnit! just a little insane, a little twisted, extremely intelligent, and probably too good of a strategist for her own good. *hmphs* i really loved playing Dorothy but eh, the rpg is gone now and yeah. no more Dorothy for me ^^; anyway, its really really a shame that people freak out so much. i mean, honestly. if you dont see the pairing, thats totally cool ^_^ everyone has their own opinion. but its not really something to like.. kill others over o_o; yes, even within yaoi its all "RAR 1x2! NO! 5x2! NO! 1x3! NOOO! 2x4! 4x1! 1x5! RARRR! *shakes fist!!!*" sooo yeah ^^; i cant really handle the het community too much, but thats not really anything wrong on their part. it's just that i haven't had a lot of great experiences with it and i dont agree with a lot of the opinions so i just kinda let it live on its own ^^
i as well am hoping the same doesnt happen to the OP community. ^^; that would suck so much >_<
(continued... >_< )
Re: O_O! (part 2 -_-)
Date: 2004-03-22 04:20 pm (UTC)For sure. Just out of curiousity, how far are you into the series? Which story arc was your favorite? I'm curious what kind of wallpaper you saw that was so spoil-rific.
im as far as K-F has subbed, which is 86 (Drum Island just after Chopper was introduced). it wouldnt have been TOO huge of a spoiler.. well it was. i was like "O_o; wtf?" but then i was looking at a different site that was all "blahblah btw this is one of the biggest spoilers in OP, follow this link only if you want to know..." and i was all *AVOIDS LINK LIKE MAD!* but then i realized after a few days that what that link was referring to was the same as what i saw in the wallpaper. and then i went "DOH! >_<" ..it doesnt really ruin the series or anything. it just wouldve been nice if i hadnt known ahead of time ^^;
anyway, i ordered the HK subs through 120 so hopefully that will help some ^^; and i DO have the manga, but i just didnt really want to read ahead cuz i love seeing it animated first and then going back and seeing the manga. but im pretty sure i'll give up on that soon and read as far as i can ^^;
AMEN! I don't think I'll be able to bring myself in watching the dubbed version. Luffy's voice being played by a man seems just wrong. Oo (You know his VA will be male. Probably.)
good god O_O; yeah. UGH. they totally did that to Kenshin. *shakes her fist at them* after awhile, you get used to it. but its just not the saaaame T_T
ahhh.. i just love their voices. i could go on an entire rant about how awesome the voice acting is! i LOVE them, all of them! but Luffy's especially makes me happy just because of its range *____* eeee! *glomps the voice actors!*
Eee! Thank you for the kind words! XD I appreciate it!
LOL no problem! yayyy ^___^ *waits a little impatiently for the next chapter of your fic* *hophop*
--
also! sorry, x-parrot, for babbling so much in your lj ^^;; ahaha... *cough*
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 03:14 am (UTC)I have a split relationship with romance. I've never really liked it - except in the few cases when I absolutely love it (Fushigi Yuugi comes to mind - Watase is the first author ever who managed to get me interested in a love story). Generally, though, it feels like it subtracts more from the story than it adds. Friendships on the other hand - what you define as "smarm" is what really makes me squee. ^_^
I think it has to do with the simpleness of friendship. Romantic love often seems to involve yearning and misunderstanding and whatnot. Friends can bicker and pretend they don't care at all, but when it comes down to it, they're there for each other. Not because they long for each others' bodies, but because they *care*. And that's what pulls my heartstrings.
Besides, there's the IC issue. A story has to be *extremely* well-written (and most aren't) in order to convince me that a friendship relationship should turn sexual. :P
As for GetBackers and Saiyuuki, heh. Yes. ^^ In the case of GB, Ban & Ginji *need* each other so much that I can't imagine either of them ever being with anyone else... And Saiyuuki - well, the boys have enough issues to deal with first that I don't think they've *been* in bed with each other - but the love is there. (and yes, that's 58/39 - don't take the monk away from his monkey!) Still, the greatness of Saiyuuki is the dynamics between all four of the guys (which shows clearly when one of them is missing! ^__^)
Anime fandoms do disappoint me. Just seeing so many people write Roy/Ed for FMA makes me shun away from that fandom. ^^;;
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 09:23 am (UTC)"Smarm" is an odd word, with the negative connotations of "smarmy", but it's good to have some handle for it. (There's also problems that a few smarm fans are violently anti-slash, and tho' I was sort of like that once, that attitude annoys now. Can't we all just get along?) Especially because having a word for it means that there's gotta be more than one of us who like it.
Hmm, I don't know if I've ever put it that way, but you have a good point about the simpleness of friendship. Misunderstandings (in romance and otherwise) can entertain, but counting on the trust and loyalty of a friend is extraordinarily touching (This would also explain why, in the area of romance, possibly my favorite sort of couple are the married ones who have been together for years and always will be. If you're going to be categorizing love, it seems to ultimately fall into two categories - romantic/sexual, and family, and it's the latter that gets me the most. In smarm stories, the ultimate proclamation of love, rather than sex, is to call a friend a brother (sister)--family by choice, not blood, but even stronger for that.)
I don't really mind the Roy/Ed stuff in FMA, but it's what made me really realize that I wasn't into fic'ing FMA...because I had no interest in reading any of it, so started wondering what *did* I want to read, and found the answer was nothing, really. Just wanted to see more. Like, right now... ^^
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 10:43 am (UTC)And yes... "Brothers in all but blood!"
(Elfquest! Does that count as a Western fandom? I never read much fanfic, though)
I know what kind of FMA stories *I* want to see... Things like the one you wrote. ^_^ Preferably short and angsty and true to canon.
Though I can guess why you're not interested... I was into game fanfics many years ago, but I never wanted to read anything based on Xenogears - I felt that game was so perfect that any additional writing could only tear it down. :P
And I still haven't seen ep 20. *wants to*
no subject
Date: 2004-02-25 05:36 am (UTC)and ep 20...is it out yet? Think the IRC server loss threw a lot of subbers out of whack...
no subject
Date: 2004-03-02 10:20 pm (UTC)But anime fandom is really lacking in those sorts of stories. I guess I was terribly spoiled by my Stargate and Invisible Man fandoms -- where there was lots of slash, true, but also soooo much h/c that I was one happy fangirl. And then I started getting into anime fandoms and ... there's almost nothing. What's the deal?
The Roy/Ed thing in FMA fic was kind of a turnoff for me, because it just so completely overwhelmed all other kinds of fic, and here the fandom was so new that we hadn't even got a chance to get to know the characters yet -- like I said, I don't mind slash, but it's the relationship that interests me and the characters didn't even really HAVE a relationship yet in the series, so why did everyone seem to want to put them in the sack together? (Well, and I had to stop reading FMA fanfic because FMA fans are not good about giving spoiler warnings, and I got a couple of major spoilers about future events in the manga and am still kind of ticked off about that, come to think of it.)
Anyway, I think it's kind of sad if the only way that fans seem to be able to express one character's love for another is in the form of sexual love. Romance has its place -- although as a genre it never really appealed to me for its own sake, as with slash, I can be easily convinced of a particular pairing if they work well together. But it's not the only thing, and it's so overdone anymore that I'm starting to develop a knee-jerk anti-romance attitude when I'm surfing fic, which is kind of sad, but it's just so prevalent that there's hardly any fun in it anymore ...! I think it was DBZ fandom that really pushed me over the edge...
Sigh. Now I'm depressed. I need to go find me some good SG1 or ST smarm to cheer myself up. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-03-03 07:47 am (UTC)Exactly, yes...it's not that I'm against the slash/yaoi at all, it's not that I don't like sex, het or gay, it's just that there's so many other aspects to relationships that get shunted aside for the sake of the romance, and some of those things are what appeals to me most. I know just what you mean about the automatic anti-romance reaction...I really do like romance (in smaller doses, diluted with lots of plot and/or humor), but hell, I can read a million original romance stories. I go to fic for the pure h/c smarm stuff that is so rare in most regular fiction. And I don't get why it's scarce in anime fic, despite all the chars who can (and do) do it so beautifully. Especially in light of its popularity in Western fandoms. Mmmm, SG-1...(I-man never had enough good writers when I was into it, maybe I should go look for some now...never burned myself out in that one due to lack of fic, and there was such..."potential", as my sis & I used to call it...)
FMA fic honestly just doesn't interest me (type B fandom, love it so much I only want it in pure form), but the amount of yaoi boggles. Especially the pairings which have almost no canonical interaction...EnvyEd? Huh? It's not that I can't see it, given what little we have seen of Envy...but why?
And you're into One Piece too? That's good, else I'd've been pushing it on you, as one of the best pure friendship stories I've ever seen. Aren't you just dying to write for it? Aren't you? Aren't you? Please?? Am not surprised that Luffy & Zoro pings you, 'cuz that's what got me the most...by an increasingly narrow margin, however, since the whole crew is just so, so great. (and Sanji is such a good whipping boy. wonder if anyone at all will read my current project when they find it's just Sanji, Zoro, torture, and no yaoi...)
no subject
Date: 2004-03-03 09:01 am (UTC)I think I have trouble with a lot of yaoi, too, because I'm so fixated on canon, and except in a series where I can see it in the actual series (all those GW boys were SO getting it on!) it just makes me feel like the characters aren't being themselves. Especially when so much yaoi is throwing together characters who don't have any kind of relationship in the series just because the author thinks they'd look hot together. I certainly don't have any problem with the simple fact that it EXISTS, but it's not what I'm looking to read.
I realized after I quit looking for FMA fic that I don't miss it at all and I'm kinda glad I stopped -- the anime itself is so new and shiny that I'm just happy with it and reading fic for it only dilutes the experience for me. Kinda like how I love Harry Potter but have no interest in reading Potter fic until the series is done -- it more detracts from the experience than enhances it. I usually don't get into fic much until the series is over and all the character development that's gonna happen in the series has already happened. (Stargate's an exception ... I've been craving Stargate h/c since the MOVIE, dammit!)
I'm still kinda in that place on One Piece too. I'm reading your story because I know I love your stories, but I'm not really doing much fic-searching at this point. I also haven't seen all that much of the series -- I've seen up to about ep 80, and I think it's up to, what, 170-something now? It's gonna be another DBZ! So I'm also still trying to avoid spoilers. But yeah, though it was Luffy-Zoro that first hooked me, the whole crew's interactions are really neat. I'm glad someone's writing about it, but it probably won't be me.
(Plot bunnies ... nibbling ... NOOOO! GET AWAY! *kicks bunnies*) ^_^
no subject
Date: 2004-03-04 07:14 am (UTC)I tend to get into fic for shows where there's room for extra stories - probably from my Western fandom roots, since most Western shows are episodic, and even when there's arcs there's space to squeeze in all sorts of adventures. GB, Saiyuki, OP all make it easy to toss the chars into whatever story you'd like. Something like FMA or HP doesn't have a terrible lot of room to play around - and I like it that way, but it means you can't really write for it with going A/U. And that kind of story usually has a final enough ending that I don't want fan extrapolation to interfere with that sense of completion. So while I'll imagine all kinds of things to happen after Escaflowne ends, I'm never tempted to read or write any of them.
I can't say which kind of fiction I like more, episodic or arc; both have their advantages, but it's the more episodic sort that inspires and interests me in fic.
I b'lieve OP ep 182 aired last Sunday ^^ and nope, no end in sight. DBZ indeed (tho' with shorter fights!) And I've only seen up to Kaizoku's latest subs, but the chars are not the sort to change drastically as the story progresses, so I feel pretty comfortable writing them...as comfortable as I could be, I should say; they are such tricksy contradictory buggers, very difficult to get a grasp on, but I enjoy the challenge!
c'mon, you know you wanna try it...*dangles yummy orange carrots to lure out the bunnies*
no subject
Date: 2004-03-05 10:22 am (UTC)(Wah, I hate to quote this much, but it's a large part of what made me slink on over here and decide to comment. ^_~ *snips a bit out*) Oddly enough, a lot of that kind of thing is what made me start seeking out romance fic in the first place. (Well, that and some people royally suck at the plot thing. People can usually manage to get romance done semi-right, at least.) I came from fandoms like Highlander or The Sentinel and got a little burnt out on the teasing after awhile. I'd gotten fed up with the dancing around each other and eventually started wanting to grumble, "Give me my romance, godddammit. MAKE THEM KISS. *fumes*"
It didn't help that this was exacerbated by fandoms like Yami no Matsuei where NOTHING EVER HAPPENED. I cannot tell you how many fics had Tsuzuki and Hisoka (or, hell, Tatsumi and Watari, when I could find decent writing for them) always dancing around the fact that they had (probably) feelings for each other, never quite going anywhere with them. After awhile it got to the point where I couldn't read any more fic because I couldn't take the lack of forward momentum in their relationship.
I agree that anime fic these days is far too dominated by romance and that plotful writing is sorely lacking and that the softer approach to romance seems to be a dying art, rather than the sledgehammer approach to two characters' feelings for each other. And maybe I'm just feeling guilty and trying to justify my love of romantic fanworks for any given series, but... eh, give me a post-romantic, plotful fic and I'm usually at my most happy-fangirl-bliss point at that. (Meaning, a story that has my favored pairing established, but the story doesn't revolve around their getting together, at least not entirely.) Because I love plot, it makes me sparkle and puts stars in my eyes, but I also like well-done romance. I like my romance tempered with genuinely moving the story/relationship/whatever forward.
So, if that means a choice between a well-written gen fic that feels stagnant to me and a semi-decent romance fic that at least gets things going again...? I admit, I have a really, really tough time choosing.
(And looking over this response, I feel I should clarify a few things, just in case I'm not coming across as well as I'd hoped. ^_~ I really do very much agree that gen fic is underappreciated by a lot of authors today, but, at the same time, I can understand the impulse to go straight for the romance fic. When I like a pairing, I crave those cathartic get-together fics because I'm not getting it in canon, dammit. And I need that itch scratched so that I can move on to other things and not be so distracted by it. Plus, it's really difficult to maintain that level of tension with the whole "Will they or won't they this time?" thing without wanting to scream and smoosh the characters' heads together and force them to kiss. ^_~
Doesn't mean I don't adore gen, of course--my absolute favorite fanfic ever was the novel-length X-Men story, "The Betrayal Arc" by Valerie Jones. What I loved about that story? Wasn't the romance. Yet, at the same time, so much of what attracts me to a fandom is the emotional component, the hook of the characters and their relationships with each other. Without that, I wouldn't even need fic, I'd just go rewatch my episodes or move on to the next series. When I become genuinely fond of the characters, that's when I want more of their interaction and it's what I seek out in fanworks. Doesn't mean I want the series itself to be about that 24/7, but it's what I go for when I want that fanworks itch scratched. XD)
*shutting up now* ^_~
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Date: 2004-03-05 12:01 pm (UTC)Character relationships are both my bread & butter and my greatest addiction, and like you, I go to fanfic for more of the interaction I love in canon, and to see chars & relationships progress further (actually, this might explain why I'm not into fic for arc shows, especially those centering on char development, since the canon scratches that itch for me). The problem I run into is that for me, a romantic relationship is not necessarily the highest progression of a relationship.
And here's why I'm a bad yaoi fangirl - because there's quite a few pairings that I *love* as friendship, that I do not see as sexual, that I do see turning into a sexual relationship, and that I have no interest in seeing any sex or romance, because the love there is, to my mind, of a different nature entirely.
A lot of this is subjective. For canon pairings it's one thing; I'm not going to deny Shuuichi and Yuki's love, and a fic about their relationship where they didn't get physical would frustrate. I don't care much for YnM, and part of the reason might because Hisoka & Tsuzuki pretty obviously are a couple but aren't doing anything about it. You mentioned post-romance fic, stories with couples already established - I love those myself, that sure, certain sort of love (I am *such* a sucker for stories about married couples.)
But then you get into something like GetBackers, in which I adore Ban & Ginji's friendship and am absolutely totally 150% in favor of BanxGinjixBan. And yet I've written little genuine yaoi for them, because for me, at least, that's not really what it's about. If there's attraction there, it mostly stems from the fact that they just love and need each other so much that their bond is physical as well as everything else. Consumation of that physical part just doesn't interest me as much as the complexities of the emotions that tie them together.
And then there's, say, One Piece, in which I love so many of the char dynamics, but don't see nearly any of them as sexual. Luffy & Zoro's relationship is probably my favorite if I had to choose, but their bond is one of friendship, to my mind. I think they love each other; I don't think they're in love with each other (and Luffy+sex breaks my brain). At the same time, I desperately want to read fic about them, because the canon doesn't quite totally fulfill me; they show they care for each other, but I want just that little bit more, the realization from Zoro of just how much his idiot captain does mean to him...
What it comes down to, I suppose, is a matter of expectations, what you're looking to get out of a fic, and what tensions are resolved. Stories are more stirring when they do affect something, when at the end something is different from what it was before. Romance is an obvious way to manage this - char A & char B always loved each other, now they sleep together, obviously they're at a new level in their relationship. But for me, at least, there's something just as powerful, or even more powerful, about a subtler change. I love h/c stories because--in the well-written ones, at least--the chars come out of it with new understandings about each other..."I didn't know he cared about me so much to do *that*"; "I didn't know I cared about him so much that I *would* do *that*." In pairing stories, this realization usually is 'sealed with a kiss', so to speak, but for me, it's not the kiss that satisfies, it's the realization, and I don't mind when the kiss isn't there.
I gotta say, thank you so much for that comment. Not sure if this reply makes much sense, but it's clarified in my mind some things I've been wondering about...
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Date: 2004-03-05 12:02 pm (UTC)...pardon my rabid fangirl moment ^_^;
Date: 2004-03-16 06:47 pm (UTC)hm. i have to admit, i don't know exactly what 'gen' is? is that generic? general? also, what's fen? *slow* ^^;
in another reply to someone you were talking about Luffy/Zoro and how you think they love each other but aren't in love. i think that's such a great concept.. err. that came out wrong. i just mean. i really like how you said that. i love how Zoro and Luffy interact in the series, and i love how they interact in your fic as well as Quatrina's (if you haven't read hers you really should because i think you'll definitely appreciate them). i'm all *__* the entire time and have to have a pillow to hug. i really really REALLY want to babble to you a lot about Overboard and i think i will soon... im still so *_* though that i cant think properly. Overboard is beautifully tragic and angsty and full of love and... AHHH. im gonna short circuit cuz i love it SO. MUCH. *_*!
i also had to tell you that i stopped by Illicit Miracles and AHHH! you HAVE to make more NOW! it's SO AWESOME! i love it SO MUCH! i was just gonna read the first page to get an idea of what it was like, but before i knew it i was totally sucked in and the pictures couldnt load fast enough for me. that scene where Laszlo first shows up... *_* my heart was pounding so much and i was like "GEAR! ADAM! SETH! AHHHH!" i love Monica's shirts XD actually, i love all their clothes. though Adam looks distinctly sexier/better as his punkish-gamer-type than he did in the first clothes he was lent ^^ i also am very much in love with Gear XD actually, all of them. i love them all SO MUCH. and the shading is GORGEOUS on it. i'm very impressed. seriously, i am. i read a lot of webcomics, and yours i am very pleased with. you totally just made my day by existing... i'm all "AWESOME OP fic *_* AWESOME webcomic *__* *SQUEEEEE!*"
so anyway. i hope you dont mind if i haunt your lj here and there ^^; i'm probably gonna be vaguely stalkerish now, because you're too awesome to leave alone *cough*
-Ais/MikAAislin Nymph (call me Ais--i just do the full name since sometimes people know me by that first O_o)
Re: ...pardon my rabid fangirl moment ^_^;
Date: 2004-03-17 04:19 pm (UTC)I was never much into GW, but I've read a little of it, and some of those stories felt more like smarm to me, with a bit of yaoi thrown in at random - I suspect you weren't the only one to put in the kisses just 'cuz they were expected. Not that there's anything wrong with that (and from what I remember of GW, at least Trowa and Quatre were not exactly "just friends" ^^;;) but the h/c is just so much more entertaining than the sex! And you definitely aren't alone in your favorite eps being the ones where your fave chars are in Big Trouble. ^__^
Ah, sorry about lack of defintions - gen is "general" fic, fic without het or slash pairings; "fen" is an older term for fans. More Western vocab, I think.
And you should see about getting into Western fandoms, if h/c is your thing! Stargate SG-1 is a good one. There's a lot of slash, but a lot of well-done gen as well. (I got into SG-1 because of the fic, before I saw any ep, just the Stargate movie. ELG's "Ripples" was enough to make me want to get into the show. Wrote a bit of fic for it myself as XmagicalX.)
And One Piece...yes. Love the show & chars so so so much but wish there were more people writing for it. Especially writing gen, because I cannot see yaoi there, except as a joke. And I have read Quatrina's stories, enjoy them very much. Glad you're liking Overboard - will be posting more of that in a bit, hope it continues to entertain!
And last but definitely not least - OH MY THANK YOU SO MUCH!! So~~ glad you like IllMir!! As an original work, that one's really my baby, so it's great to hear someone's read it. and liked the chars. I'm verra fond of them myself. ^_^ Aww, Gear...I don't know what happened, he wasn't hardly meant to be a char at all, but he's so silly, and a good whipping boy ^^ And Adam's outfits, hee, glad you like his later stuff. The first outfit was Nick's clothes, hence them being rather preppy-ish. More fun to draw his present skater-gamer-punk-whatever style - Monica's got a much better fashion sense than me!
Re: ...pardon my rabid fangirl moment ^_^;
Date: 2004-03-17 04:54 pm (UTC)lol yeah... thats pretty much right ^_^
sorry about lack of defintions - gen is "general" fic, fic without het or slash pairings; "fen" is an older term for fans. More Western vocab, I think.
hey, no prob ^_^ it actually amuses me how much i say could easily be confusing if you don't know what the shorthand meant. i think gen and fen are more Western like you said... maybe. just cuz i havent heard it before. gen makes sense... helpful word to have. fen.. aww. its cute XD
And you should see about getting into Western fandoms, if h/c is your thing! Stargate SG-1 is a good one.
oo thanks for the rec! i have some friends totally into Stargate. i think i've seen the movie and a few random eps here and there. i love Richard Dean Anderson, though, so *_* yeah. i'll have to look into the links, thanks!
Love the show & chars so so so much but wish there were more people writing for it. Especially writing gen, because I cannot see yaoi there, except as a joke.
lol i can KINDA see the yaoi... kinda. i dunno. i havent really looked into it much. i imagine i could make myself see it possible, but pretty much, i am muuuuch more into the gen. i agree.. i do wish more people were writing for it. especially since the anime has been around so long, yknow?
directly from the show, yeah, yaoi doesnt seem nearly as believable as just gen. especially gen done the way you do it with there this like.. fond bond between people ^_^
Glad you're liking Overboard - will be posting more of that in a bit, hope it continues to entertain!
oh, im certain it will continue to entertain. though XD you may never get around to posting it if i keep accosting you XD
OH MY THANK YOU SO MUCH!! So~~ glad you like IllMir!! As an original work, that one's really my baby, so it's great to hear someone's read it.
^____^ no prob at all! im realllly glad you posted the link at ffn. i never wouldve found it otherwise. i know what you mean about original works... it's great writing fanworks, but when people comment on original stuff, it's like "AHHH THANK YOUUU!" the characters are so great XD
, Gear...I don't know what happened, he wasn't hardly meant to be a char at all, but he's so silly, and a good whipping boy ^^
LOL yes, he DOES make a good whipping boy... a cute one too XD i loved that "my.. my... MY BRAND NEW FLATSCREEN MONITOR!! a hug would help" XDXD i could sooo see myself doing the same thing hahaha
The first outfit was Nick's clothes, hence them being rather preppy-ish.
rofl yes, Nick. i love the boy, but he DOES have preppier outfits. he looks good in them, though ^_^
dude, on a random aside, i love the random chibi-ish moments XD it's SO CUTE. like the scene where Nick first appears and is checking Seth's temp.. or the time when Seth makes sure it's ok with Nick the lie he said about Adam's presence and Nick's all "no it's fine!" XD SOOO CUTE XD
More fun to draw his present skater-gamer-punk-whatever style
its so fun ^_^ i like the style a lot.
Monica's got a much better fashion sense than me!
LOL me too! do you get her shirts from real shirts youve seen? i loved her Unregistered Mutant one... and then one ring to rule them all *_*
ohh speaking of clothes. i love the fun extra pics in the gallery ^_^ like the WK cosplay one XDXD i laughed so hard XD Nick as Yohji was hilarious.. HAHA.. and then the one where theyre all naked.. LOL ohh and the one h/c pic *_* soo pretty. and also the one where i think it's seth who has the 'yaoi boi' shirt XD i WANT THAT SHIRT XD
...ok, im done XD sorry lol just wanted to say i love how much fun you have in the extra art. ohhh theres a link down though. the fanart from jeannine doesnt exist. just in case you wanted to know ^_^
no subject
Date: 2004-08-12 12:11 am (UTC)Yes yes, the charm of the 'brothers in arms' that I so love. Smarm, is it? *takes notes*
I never thought I'd progress from straight-laced canonfan to, er, not-so-straight-laced canonfan. I would say I'm not a yaoi fan, but I remember I seem to have a couple of images in my brain of an older Tiga and Dyna-shihan getting it on--and somewhat enjoying their appearance in my neurons under all that squick and disgust.
The problem is that slash appears to be very hard to write subtly, and WELL. Some of us just don't WANT anything beyond a snuggle, a platonic hug, a pat on the back, a talk, a simple sharing of a cherry lollipop. (Hell, I don't want the lollipop. XD) In short and in my opinion, the subtext should remain subtext unless it's specifically stated that X romped in the hay with Y (which to my great disgust seems not to be an issue with Yuu Watase works, blegh.)
Long Live The Art Of Platonic Friendship. ^^v