musing on SGA fandom

[xparrot]

I was looking over the results of my Keller poll a few weeks back, and one figure was either upsetting or encouraging - 38% agreed with the statement "Whatever my feelings on Keller and Rodney/Keller, I'm sad to see it dividing the fandom. Can't we all just get along?" This was discouraging because it reflected what I've been feeling myself - that the fandom is divided right now, that there's lines being drawn and sides chosen and some people just surrendering and moving on to less combative and more positively squeeful Merlin/Arthur fandoms. On the other hand it's encouraging that I'm not the only one upset by this, that a lot of us not only perceive the division, but would like to make peace.

So in my usual way of dealing with conflict, I've been trying to examine it from all sides, attempt to determine the causes and effects and psychology of my own reactions and everyone else's, and pretty much talk it to death. Here's a bit of that analysis, as always discussed and argued in detail with gnine and naye as well as a bunch of y'all online. Because really, I don't like to see the fandom being divided; SGA was a relief to come to after Smallville, which is a pretty intense fannish hot zone (at least I haven't noticed pro- or anti-McKeller fans calling each other Nazi sympathizers yet...) and I'd rather SGA didn't get like that. And then, I'm feeling guilty now, because I'm definitely part of the problem, having raised the dreaded Keller question and giving people a place to vent. Venting can be cathartic but it can also feed the flames, increase the divide even if there's not open conflict, by more firmly entrenching people on one side or another.

The negativity is especially divisive because as far as I can tell, a lot of SGA fandom (I speak mostly of segments of lj fandom here; I don't have much contact with other places) had an unspoken contract not to get too negative. The truth is, most of us accept that SGA is not the best show ever, and the writing especially is problematic; we tend to snicker and wink at its many foibles, roll our eyes at the juvenilism of Mallozzi & co., and move onto the fun stuff. This season a bunch of us have had trouble with the moving-on step, and instead are focusing on the negative aspects. This is frustrating and harshing for fans who are still enjoying a lot of the show; they're feeling betrayed by a fandom that's no longer bringing the squee like it used to. All those fans who are being negative now (myself being one of them) have breached that basic tenet of the unwritten SGA fandom contract, and it's understandable why other fans are upset.

The divisiveness is worse because that betrayal, in a lot of cases, is happening between old fan friends. Some fans have always been negative about the show, or have always been out of step with the majority of fandom. SGA fandom has always been somewhat divided - the McShep contingent is so overwhelming in numbers and fervor that they inadvertently leave all the other fen feeling kind of oppressed; it's hard to find the pairing or char you like amidst the vast John/Rodney sea, and naturally there's a bit of resentment there, the usual hard-to-avoid irritation of "how come nobody writes what I want to read?" But for the most part the fen seem to have settled in different circles; they don't interact that much and so there's relatively little direct conflict.

But lot of the division now is between fans who used to be in the same circles - it's civil war, sister against sister, McKay fan vs McKay fan. Fans who used to see the show and fandom similarly are no longer eye-to-eye; fans who used to be in the comfortable majority are now finding themselves stranded in minority opinions. It's leaving a lot of us feeling a bit hurt and betrayed even when there isn't much direct conflict - which there hasn't been, at least in the lj circles I've been on; for all McKeller supporters often preface their squee with, "I know this is an unpopular opinion..." I haven't seen anyone getting flamed for saying they like McKeller, and the McKeller fic I've seen posted tend to get comments like, "I don't really like this pairing but I like how you portrayed it..." Maybe that's been different in other areas of the fandom, I don't know. But I've seen a few Keller/McKeller fans who feel betrayed by and resentful of fandom not because they've been attacked outright, but because they keep seeing negative reactions to the character/pairing they like, and start to take those reactions personally.

The odd thing is, I know exactly how they feel, because I confess to feeling the same way myself in the reverse. For whatever reasons my flist is (apparently atypically) Keller-positive - I have a few anti-fen, but more pro-, and I sometimes find myself feeling (completely irrationally) betrayed when reading about how much a fellow fan who I usually agree with loved an episode I hated. It's that age-old fan-phenomenon - "Your Friends Are Not Watching the Same Show You Are" but it's hitting closer to home because a bunch of us used to be tuning in to the same program, and we're not anymore. And both sides keep trying to change the other side's channel, have a hard time accepting that we're now watching different shows.

Which is leading to more divisiveness, as some McKeller fans, baffled why the majority of fandom is so against something they find entertaining, find themselves concluding that it must be something wrong with the other fans. I'm not sure if it's an aspect of being in the minority (and while Keller is more liked than disliked, liking the McKeller was a minority opinion in my poll, only 13% of fans liking it as portrayed in the show (though another 20% liked it in theory)) or if it's something to do with positive vs negative fanning, but while most anti-McKeller fans direct their resentment and frustration at the show itself and the writers (rather than flaming McKeller fic writers or the like), some pro-McKeller fans, rather than just squeeing, also direct a portion of negativity toward the anti-McKeller fans, accusing them of bringing the fandom down or all being rabid McSheppers who can't appreciate het relationships. I suspect a lot of this is because these McKeller fans are feeling besieged by the negativity around them and are just defending themselves, but it makes the anti-McKeller fen jump to their own defense.

Which rarely goes well, because even if the debate stays polite, it usually ends up just entrenching both sides deeper in their respective positions. The McKeller fans find more to like about the pairing; the anti-McKeller fans find more to dislike. Usually these aren't the same things - a McKeller fan is not squeeing over an unhealthy romance but rather seeing a healthy relationship. But the positive things the McKeller fans are seeing are simply not there for the anti-McKeller fans, and likewise the faults the anti-McKeller fans are seeing are nonsensical or nonexistent from the pro-McKeller perspective. It's not that either side is right or wrong; it's that the show provides support for both positions, depending on what you're tuning in for, and the more fodder you look for, the more you get.

Meanwhile there's a bunch of fans who are generally neutral on the McKeller issue but are frustrated by the fandom's arguments, wondering where the heck the squee has gone. A lot of these are fans who really don't like negative fanning and are finding both character-hate and critical analysis squee-harshing, so they drift more toward the McKeller side because it's the more positive side of fandom, rather than because they're really 'shipping it. They're resentful that the fandom's tone has changed, that there's less squee than there used to be, and blame the anti-McKeller side of the fandom for the squee-loss.

This is the one stance that I argue is unfair. The biggest mistake SGA's writers made this season is not the introduction of the McKeller; it's the loss of other things. In my poll, the thing that the most fans can agree on - over 80%, the highest response rate in the entire poll - is that we want more Team episodes. Most of us love team love, and there's been less this season, less Ronon and Teyla especially, but also less John. (There's also been less John & Rodney scenes than any previous season - partly because John's been in it less; Rodney's been more the main protagonist in s5 - and for many Rodney fans, it's jarring that Rodney's most emphasized relationship in the show has switched from John to Keller.) This is not solely the fault of the McKeller; a lot of other things have also replaced the team moments (e.g. Daniel Jackson, and Carson popping in.) But the McKeller is the most consistent element, and a new one, so it's the easiest to blame - a scapegoat, not actually the cause but a symptom. I think if there'd been more team/McShep stuff as well as the McKeller, most fans wouldn't be as bothered by the McKeller. Likewise, one of the reasons I suspect that the anti-McKeller fans have been piling on that negative bandwagon is that we're feeling deprived - there's not as much to squee about together, so instead we're communing over the negative things.

For anyone who's wondered why people who seem to hate the show now are still watching it - it's partly so we can stay in touch with each other in the fandom. Bonding over character/pairing hate is still bonding. Also, most of us don't actually hate the show - we're disappointed in it, and we dislike certain elements, but a lot of us still love it dearly for all its flaws and faults. I personally am thrilled when an episode gives me something to squee over, and I've cheerfully squeed when I can - there just hasn't been as much, for me, and I've been feeling betrayed by the show for it, while I'm still happy with the fandom. For those fans who enjoy the McKeller, they haven't faced a loss of enjoyment in the show, but they have in the fandom, finding their circles of shared squee much reduced, and thus feel betrayed by their fellow fans. So both sides are ultimately unhappy with the state of things in the fandom.

And I'm not sure what we can do about that. I do hope a lot of it will blow over when the show ends next month. Most of us who are so frustrated by the McKeller in the show are not nearly as resentful of McKeller in the fandom. SGA's mostly pretty peaceful when it comes to pairings, and it seems very unlikely McKeller's ever going to dominate the fandom, regardless of its canonical status - which might be disappointing to McKeller 'shippers, but at the same time, there probably will always be a contingent for that 'ship (more than for some non-canonical pairings), and likely growing, as fic'ers and squee'ers find ways to render it more convincingly for all those fans who like it in theory even if not in canon. As well, the majority of fans do like Keller (and I believe more like her in the theory even though they don't like how she's been written in the show) and aren't really into character bashing, so there probably won't be much of that to contend with in fic (even in Smallville fandom, far more fics simply ignored Lana Lang than bashed her, and the Keller-hate of SGA is nothing compared to the Lana-hate!)

Meanwhile, the best we can all do is probably just live-and-let-live, seek out those fans who fan the way we are, who are watching the show we're watching, and take our squee where we can get it! *defiantly hugs SGA, show and fandom - dammit, I don't care what else happens, Rodney McKay forever!*



Now I'm going to go wake up the sis and bro in the other room, and we can open the Christmas presents we left until after we got back from Hong Kong! Yay, presents! (Also, Hong Kong is wonderfully warm this time of year, and delicious. Christmas dinner was roast goose at the best Chinese restaurant I have ever been to. Oh man. SO TASTY. But someday I have to go on an Asian eating tour with people who actually eat seafood; gnine is allergic and the bro doesn't like it, so I was left drooling over pictures of crab and shrimp and shellfish but not ordering any because I can't finish whole dishes on my own...)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Do you think it could also be part of this divide between a good portion of fandom thinking its canon John is gay when others know for a fact that there is only subtext and are happy with that?

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I think text vs subtext is part of it - some of us are resentful that a subtextual ship is being made text; I don't want textual romance in SGA, het or slash. I don't think that John in particular is a crucial part of this debate, at least in my experience; even if you see John as textually, canonically gay and in love with Rodney, the McKeller stuff has only been supporting that reading, as John has come across as jealous. The biggest conflict I've been seeing is between Rodney fans more than John fans - some Rodney fans just enjoy getting more Rodney scenes, other Rodney fans don't care for Rodney in this particular relationship with Keller.

[jadesfire.livejournal.com]

Wow. There's a lot in here that I want to respond to and I'm going to need to re-read for that (of course, by the time I do, everyone else will probably have come and gone, but never mind ;)) but I just wanted to say that I found this really helpful. I came to SGA from Torchwood, and this post has helped me put my finger on why I've been pulling back a bit from SGA fandom recently. There are certain resonances with Torchwood fandom - canon material needing large amounts of hand-waving or facepalming, a fandom-dominating slash pairing, poor use of supporting characters, a het ship that causes huge divisions in the fandom - and I pulled out of that fandom rather than sink in it. I'd hate to SGA go that way, and I hope that when I dip my toe back into Torchwood fandom soon, it'll be better.

I also have this vague hope that with closed canon, SGA could become like the dS fandom, where the ship wars are remembered but largely in the past and most people seem to get on happily together. *closes eyes and clicks heels together* If wishing could make it so...

I really hope the fandom can get through this intact - there's a lot more squeeing to be done!

[(Anonymous)]

I think in this case its less of a ship war as whether you want to emphasize one character over another. If you're mostly a John fan then you have issues with McKeller, but if you're more of a Rodney fan you're not as bothered. Of course YMMV.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you found it helpful - really I'm not sure if me going on like this can help explain things, or will only feed the flames, especially since my own bias tends to slip in despite my best efforts. I really am sympathetic to the McKeller fans - it's hard to have an unpopular ship, especially if you're used to being in step with most of the fandom - and I am even more sympathetic to those like you who don't really 'ship at all and find any kind of 'ship-based conflict baffling. In Torchwood, with canon ships there from the beginning, the ship wars have always been an aspect of the fandom (I expect; I don't really know the fandom well enough to say for sure) while as in SGA, this is the first time there's really been canon ships, so we're all sort of new to the debate.

Which is why I'm sort of relieved the show is ending now - with no new canon, I don't think McKeller has had a chance to split the fandom; I really do think this will all blow over when the canon closes. Closed-canon fandoms do tend to be more peaceful, and hopefully SGA will go that route sooner rather than later.

(And gah, I must sound like a great big hypocrite preaching this stuff, since I've been one of the more negative types myself, but I've found that for all my bitching, as soon as I take a step back from certain recent canon my squee floods back in. And I *like* squeeing, dammit, for all I sometimes have trouble putting the negativity aside! So I have hopes the same will be true for many of us harshers, once it's closed...)

[lysambre.livejournal.com]

Another major divide in the fandom was also (as shown in your poll with 69%) the introduction of unavoidable major ship in canon.

For years it was all about the unsaid, all about we give you the little finger so that you can imagine the whole body, and to me that worked perfectly. All the fans/ship were happy because they could imagine their ship being the one (if they had canonly put John with either Teyla or Weir in one of the first 3 seasons, I would have expected a major revolution in those ship's fandoms).

By forcing everyone to have one and only one ship they completely broke up with what the Stargate fandom has been for the past 13 years. They forced people to choose a side when before that everybody had been living mostly in peace.

So I don't really put the blame on pro or anti McKeller, I put it once again on the team of writers, who suddenly decided to try and command the fans, without really knowing them. Either that or they simply did it on the purpose to "divide and conquer".

In any case introducing romance in a non-subtle way made the fandom react like they would have for any romantic show (that means 99.9% of all the shows out there, and that means with violence instead of understanding) instead of leaving us happy in our sci-fi show.

That's why I'm mostly angry at the writers/producers/ptb instead of being angry at the fans (which I was at first before realising that as much as I can't help loving the McShep, they also can't help being taken by what is shown to them as being canon).

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I think the decision to go canon with a textual 'ship is part of the conflict - and how that 'ship has been handled hasn't helped, as a lot of fans who were open to the idea still don't like how it's been done. But I think that resentment could've been mitigated in part if they'd kept giving us team-squee and McShep-squee (as well as more with the supporting characters, I know Zelenka fen have also felt slighted this season...) If we'd known for sure that the writers were just adding a new element, rather than replacing elements - but several of the most recent episodes have definitely had the McKeller instead of John-Rodney (slash or friendship, however you want to read it) - as if one is replacing the other, and a lot of fans are reacting to that. Back in SG-1, I didn't really care for Sam/Jack, but I was better about it when the show let it co-exist with the team interactions I did like. SGA might've done the same with McKeller next season if they'd had one, but by pushing the 'ship in the final few eps of the show to the exclusion of team & McShep, they've provoked a lot of resentment.

[calime]

So I don't really put the blame on pro or anti McKeller, I put it once again on the team of writers, who suddenly decided to try and command the fans, without really knowing them. Either that or they simply did it on the purpose to "divide and conquer".

Totally agree.

[katikat.livejournal.com]

For me, it's fairly simple. I just don't like romantic ships of any kind on my action/scifi shows. I watch it for the action, the friendship, the team bonding. My favorite eps of the 2nd half of the season? Prodigal and Infection. But especially Prodigal. The rest was cringe-worthy.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Pretty much, yeah, this - I'm not a big romance fan anyway, I'd've been just as upset as a gen fan than as a slasher. But it's not just romance; as you say, a lot of eps have been cringe-worthy this season, including plenty that Keller wasn't even in.

*coughs* contains Vegas spoilers

[busaikko]

Heh. My flist has been full of squee the past few days (for Vegas) (and also, to be fair, rage at Vegas. Squee and rage! What a show....)

I think perhaps the biggest problem with season 5 was that the season was already in production when it was cancelled. The cancellation made everyone more critical and more hopeful. Critical because these being the last few episodes, they now had to be *good*; and hopeful of getting all the things we most wanted wrapped up in ribbon. So people who love team really wanted to see good team interactions, and were angry when (for example) Teyla and Ronon were *missing* from Vegas. People who supported a 'ship wanted it made canon, or failing that, at least have the two characters alive and single at the end; and woe to the writers if they did it wrong (note that these are the writers who thought that date-rape drugs were a really funny joke back in S3 and write quips about marriage being like torture, so: not real good with the romance).

If S5 had been written with the foreknowledge that it would be last, I would hope it would have been more even and resolve more... *lives in fantasy world*

I came into the fandom as a McKay/Sheppard writer, but I have written McKeller (and also John/Parrish, John/Woolsey). I'm not a die-hard 'shipper. But I expect that I have to make a pairing believable, and to me that is where the canon McKeller failed. I can believe McShep without one single declaration of love, because of all the on-screen moments of caring and emotion between the two; if the writers had given me Rodney running to Jennifer in the Shrine and drinking beer with her, or racing cars with her, that would have given me a lot more understanding of the pairing than a few 'I love you's ever would.

I haven't noticed that the fandom seems divided at all, except along the old 'live and let live' line between het and slash. I think most of the squee-reduction is due to the closing of canon at the end of S5, and all the various inevitable disappointments that that entails. McKeller is one to some people, lack of good team interaction another, what happened to Elizabeth another, what happens to the whole Pegasus galaxy another, the WTF Rodney-Radek hostility another, I could go on and on. There won't be closure for most of these outside of fanfic. Which hopefully will be a good thing. We have better writers *picture my pointy, wicked smirk*

Re: *coughs* contains Vegas spoilers

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Jumpin' in ;)

I can believe McShep without one single declaration of love, because of all the on-screen moments of caring and emotion between the two

*gasp* But you are seeing it all wrong, they are not best friends, not even good friends, they are just colleagues and nothing else and sometimes not even that - according to the writers, despite the car racing, chess and PC golf playing moments proving something else completely ;P

But seriously - I think that that's one of the main problems with the show: the writers have one thing on their minds while showing us something completely different. According to the writers, John and Ronon, and Rodney and Carson are best friends - despite the fact that John and Rodney are the ones that spend most of their free time together on-screen. Rodney loves Jennifer but when he's confused he runs to John - another contradiction. And when the writers are unable to show us their idea and simply rely on telling us, it'll never work - and what's even worse, they aren't even willing to admit it *sigh*

I think the point is moot-show is almost over

[belladonnaf66.livejournal.com]

and people should be able to enjoy the show as they see fit. Yeah, I would like more John and Rodney, and McKeller bores me, but so what.

As my Lieutenant used to say, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one."

And quoting my daughter, "People should just get over themselves"...lol

Re: I think the point is moot-show is almost over

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I completely agree everyone should be able to enjoy the show as they see fit - that's what I think I was trying to say in this (I get distracted easily, so the message might've been lost...) Really, I'm not even saying the show writers are wrong - their show, their choices, whatever. Though I am a bit depressed that some fans now hate the show, and other fans hate the fandom for hating the show...not much I can do about it, though...

[3rdof4.livejournal.com]

As always, I am in awe of how well the SGA fandom is able to express themselves. No matter how disappointed some are with the canon, the fandom has been able to rise above and create alternate endings and universes that take my breath away. Yes, there have been less than impressive episodes in all the seasons, stories that are in contradiction to the ones previous, characters being inconsistent, but we do have stunning images that are now ours. I absolutely will adore forever the site of Atlantis rising from the sea (season one), flying in space and crashing on a new home (season 4). Granted the stories have not done justice to all the characters. The team has not been able to shine lately, but as others have said, now that canon is ending, fandom can mold their futures. I started watching for John, Rodney, Teyla and later Ronon, and still do. The writers have let me down this season, but still gave us glimpses of what makes me happy in Search and Rescue, Shrine, Prodigal and Vegas (the actors kept breaking my heart). We do have better writers in fandom, they will keep me entertained for a long, long time. If it is written well, I read, regardless of het/slash or pairings.

Yes!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Awww, I love our crazy, beautiful show, and the crazier and more beautiful fandom that's grown around it! It's true that this, and everything you've named, all those gorgeous moments and all that brilliant fic, can't be taken from us, by the writers or other fans or anyone else. Long live SGA!

[sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com]

but while most anti-McKeller fans direct their resentment and frustration at the show itself and the writers (rather than flaming McKeller fic writers or the like), some pro-McKeller fans, rather than just squeeing, also direct a portion of negativity toward the anti-McKeller fans, accusing them of bringing the fandom down or all being rabid McSheppers who can't appreciate het relationships.

I haven't seen instances of the two examples of fan-on-fan disagreement you offer at the end of the paragraph I've quoted above, but I have no problem with McKeller fans taking issue with some of what anti-McKeller folks have said. Keller's been called a bitch, a whore, a slut, and a flake - it's not the show writers who are writing her that way; it's fans who are interpreting her that way, or worse, expressing their dislike of the character in profoundly gendered, derogatory, sexual ways. Not all fans are doing it, nor are all fans' disagreements with Keller based on those terms, but it's absolutely undeniable that a lot of trash has been talked about Keller in base, offensive ways.

I'd also argue there is no "anti-Keller" side to face off against the "pro-Keller" side, nor an "anti-McKeller" to face off against "pro-McKeller" - those big terms hide a multitude of disagreements, interpretations, and ideas. I would no more paint everyone who dislikes McKeller with the same brush as I'd paint the people calling Keller a slut than I'd paint everyone who likes Keller with the brush that suggests they're taking things too personally.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I was more talking about pro- and anti-McKeller than Keller fans - and "some" such fans, not all fans by any means. I can't speak to the Keller-hate because, as I've said before, I really have not seen it much; it's just not in the limited parts of the fandom I've been in. I know it's there, but I seem to have an easier time avoiding it than most. That being said, I wasn't saying that Keller/McKeller fans don't have a right to defend their character, or to argue that trashing her is uncalled for, or to take offense at sexist language. I don't have any problem with arguing against what another person says - but I've seen it going beyond that on occasion.

I do agree that my rant does mush together a lot of different groups and disagreements; I was speaking more to the particular attitudes I've personally observed, and inaccurately projecting that part on the fandom as a whole. I was speaking broadly because I don't want to single out individual fans, and because everything I've mentioned I have observed in multiple places; I never intended to paint any arbitrary set of fans with the same brush, and I apologize if any of my language came across that way.

I will say, however, that while I know there are inflammatory rants against Keller out there, I haven't seen anyone insulting Keller's fans. Whether this is because the haters don't believe Keller fans exist, or simply because I haven't personally encountered the incidents of it, I don't know (as I've said, my fandom circle is quite limited, really, for all my talk of broad trends.) But I have seen some (certainly not all) Keller/McKeller fans saying that fandom's to blame for the recent lack of squee, the show writers themselves believe that all fans who dislike Keller do so because they're crazy Carson fans, and in at least one case when someone mentioned disliking McKeller on their lj, an anon poster insisted that anti-McKeller fans are all jealous OTPers who must have never been in a real-life relationship and need to grow up. And I'll admit that I have more trouble with trash-talk directed at real people than fictional characters.

Really, though, I think that these direct conflicts, like the rabid, misogynistic Keller-hate you describe, are isolated cases, a few especially disgruntled fans whose voices are loud enough to echo across fandom; the majority of fans are mostly neutral, and while they'll debate one side or another when pushed to it, they'd just as soon let it be and get back to enjoying what they like.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

We're pretty much in the death spiral of the show, and I think busaikko is right that we're running head-on into wishes, hopes, and expectations that just weren't met--and were never able to be met--by the writing staff of our show. Worst case scenario for me would be if the characters died visibly on-screen, and anything other than that is fixable. One of the places I think we need to go, though, is figuring out how to incorporate Keller into Rodney's life and the team, and no just reject her out of hand. That means some McKay fan has to do the work on that, since the writer's didn't, and for myself, I am not that interested in who she is to write that story, and I don't think it can really be written by a John fan as the story has to be all about how Rodney makes sense of the relationships, and how he pulls it all together. Once someone writes that story, then we'll be fine again, but for now, we're struggling, mired in talking about the writers, when what we need is a universe explaination.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Well, there's not going to be one story that works for all fans - even canon itself rarely works for all fans, there's almost always some folks in denial, in any fandom I've been in. And there's no fanfics I know of that are accepted by the majority of fandom as "gospel fanon" (maybe there are in other fandoms?) In this case especially, a lot of us have no particular interest in incorporating Keller into the story, either Rodney's or the teams; if the show writers didn't bother to pull it off, we're not going to work it out for them. Fanfic is in part about fixing canon's holes - but only the holes we care about. The truth is, some fans find the "death"/denial of an OTP every bit as traumatizing as the death of a character - and some fans aren't particularly bothered by any of it. Some fans are going to take the effort to figure out Keller and McKeller and make it work; others are going to be in permanent denial of that aspect of canon, and will always believe the show writers screwed up. And some fans will straddle the line and happily fic in both universes; it's all a personal choice, and as long as everyone respects everyone else's choice, that's fine.

I totally agree that it being the final season is making things a lot more tense than they would be otherwise, and once the show's over things will calm down.

[trystings.livejournal.com]

In the end, what galls me is that all of this could have been avoided. Not a single fan saw this romance coming or asked for it. The majority of the fans doesn't like it for various well-voiced reasons and I'm pretty sure that the fans who do like the ship, would still have been okay if McKeller had NOT been incorporated in the show. It's not as if this relationship resolves four years of UST.

I do hope things will settle down after the final episode. Fans who like McKeller have canon on their side and fans who don't like McKeller are in the majority and have fanon on their side. Let's hope we can find some middle ground and hang on to the squee.

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Seems like Gero decided that Rodney had to get the girl in order to be happy and that Rodney would be Gero's Marty Stu. No one was clamoring for romance that I have ever seen. I think most shippers would have been happy with the subtlety that has worked in the past - that way you can see what you want or don't want and everyone is happy and fanfic does the rest. Instead we get this ship out of the blue with no background, no build up, no believablility (in my opinion). Now no one seems to be happy, except Gero. This wasn't the show we signed up for. Matters weren't helped when Gero had interviews on Gateworld and in magazines where he just fanned the flames, insulting anyone who didn't like Keller or McKeller, the latter two he admitted were his favorite characters. Just added to the tension/negativity.

I do think everything will settle down once the show ends. With time and distance, emotions won't be so raw. Then the fanfic can take over and everyone will be free to read the pairings and genres that they like best.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Interesting post! And interesting comments (though I swept madly past the "Vegas" spoiler stuff, because "eek! no spoilers! no spoilers!" so here's hoping I didn't miss something huge).

I think your point about "watching a different show" is a really good one. And I think this has hit especially hard because similar watchers (members of the "We ♥ Rodney McKay!" brigade) have suddenly been split in two (or more!). In the end, I think we probably were watching different shows, but they were similar enough (or maybe more accurately, the differences were small enough) that we didn't fully notice. So I think it is shocking to suddenly realize that those differences are there. Shocking and sad.

It actually makes me wish there was one more season, because then we'd get a season without the McKeller story (which this season has been, like last season was Teyla's missing people) and maybe a storyline we'd all watch in similar ways again. But maybe a rewatch, maybe a movie, maybe time, will bring back the comaraderie. I'll hope for it. :)

(I have no idea if this is helpful info or a babbling tangent, but I also adore John. I mean, to the point where I have a hard time choosing between him and Rodney for "most favored character" status. To the point where some days, I'll pick John. I think Rodney gets better treatment from the show (the writers get Rodney in a way they just can't seem to get John, and I give Flanigan so, so, so much props for keeping John human), but in some ways, John is the more intriguing character. (Yeah, that could so easily be the "blank slate" phenomenon... I'm susceptible, I know.) But anyway: as a John fan, I still like both Keller and McKeller. For what it's worth. *g*)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I actually think we (Rodney fans as a whole) might've been watching the same show, but when the show split into different shows - the "Rodney & Keller show" didn't exist until late last season, after all - we started tuning into different things.

And I do think one of the big problems is that the show-writers decided to do no character arcs except Keller's love story (Ronon included.) Last season Teyla's missing people was one big story, but so was waking the Replicators, a plot point that also involved a degree of character emotion - and conversely, Teyla's character arc was also a plot arc, involving Michael. The McKeller being solely a character arc with no connection to plot opened the show to accusations of soap-opera-hood, and there was no other major plot arc to argue against that reading. Which I feel was a major mistake on the part of the writers, because it ended up giving the McKeller more weight than it should have gotten. SGA's relationships have always been more subtext than text, and no SGA character relationship has ever gotten the attention that the McKeller has (even John-Rodney never got three episodes in a row that specifically made a point of their friendship.) So while for many shows the McKeller was fairly low-key, for SGA it was huge, and intrusive for many fans.

There are a lot of fans who enjoy John & Rodney equally - especially a lot of McSheppers I know will not choose. I consider myself a John fan myself though I will list Rodney as my favorite. But of the fans who have a definite preference for John - those who get annoyed when Rodney gets the dramatic eps instead of John, who are watching the show mostly for John/JF - most of them are annoyed that the McKeller is taking time away from John. (Not all of them, though; I know of at least one John-fan McShepper who's fine with the McKeller.) The majority of the McKeller fans I know are Rodney fans who are enjoying that Rodney's getting the screen-time (and who like Keller, too.) Which I can understand, even if it doesn't work like that for me, because I have so little interest in this romance that I find the McKeller scenes as boring as the scenes with Keller on her own (same as you can't enjoy Rodney when he's with Carson); the McKeller is actually making me like Rodney less, which is frustrating...!

[calcitrix.livejournal.com]

I know I myself have trouble accepting mediocre episodes when I've got the little counter in my head telling me there's only a handful left; things I would've let slide before are so much more frustrating within that limit.

Yes, absolutely! I also think that if there had been another season, McKeller wouldn't even be an issue (as a canon relationship), because at some point they would have broken up and that would have been that. But now they will be canon forever (potentially), and I've read a lot of comments lately from McSheppers who like to stick to what they perceive as canon.

Anyway, your quote, yes. I only dislike extended Jennifer-And-Rodney-Time [though I liked Brainstorm (minus the plane scene, which felt out of character for both of them)] because it could have been team time, or, heck, been a scene with Lorne or Zelenka. I would have liked her a lot more in smaller doses.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Well, the way the writers have been talking, I think they were intending the McKeller to be a long-term romance, with them probably eventually marrying and having kids (might still happen in the movie...) Which is some of what fans have been reacting to. I didn't have any problem with Rodney/Katie Brown because I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere, but the McKeller has had so much more weight put on it that it doesn't seem the writers would be willing to drop it. Which means I'm kinda relieved the show is ending, before the chars are married off...(I'm a McShepper myself who likes to stick to canon, and Rodney being happily married would end my OTP and make it pretty much emotionally impossible for me to write or read fic unless I went into denial-mode, so, yeah, what you said!)

It's actually not been just McKeller - there's also been extended Rodney-and-Carson Time and Rodney-and-Daniel-Jackson Time, and yeah, I'd've preferred team-time over all of those, in our final moments (it's always going to frustrate me that in one season Rodney & Keller have exchanged more lines and scenes than Rodney & Teyla in the entire 5 seasons...)

tl;dr reply ahead!

[fashi0n-mistake.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, one of the things I loved about SGA was the fandom; it was really a fun fandom. Not so much these days because it becomes more and more clear that there is a line dividing the fandom.

I fall on the anti-Mckeller side but for more reasons than the fact that I'm a John fan who's feeling irritated that her favorite is no longer the star (when he is, in fact, supposed to be) or the fact that I prefer gen to canon romances.

I've been watching Atlantis since the beginning. Heck, it took some convincing but I got my sister and our two friends (who also happen to be sisters) to watch it and so it became our Friday Night Thing.

And then came this year.

It's hard and I feel the pain of everyone who has suddenly stopped finding Atlantis enjoyable. To me, it feels like, come season 5, Atlantis suddenly turned around and ripped out my heart. And it's never nice to feel that way. So I'm resentful and yeah, McKeller *is* one of the reasons why I feel Atlantis has torn out my heart and I refuse to apologize for that. It's my opinion and my feeling. No one can tell me it's not valid for me to feel that why, *especially* not the morons running this rudderless ship.

But. I also feel for the McKeller fans a whole lot. It's not anyone but the writers fault for the decreasing quality of Atlantis. The fans of McKeller aren't wrong because they don't feel the same way I do. I'm happy for them that they still enjoy Atlantis. I just can't feel the same way.

I honestly feel that the writers (mainly Mallozi and Gero) are responsible for all of this. They shoved their new favorite ship down the throats of an audience where the majority was not ready for a canon ship involving two of the main characters. And I think it's the fact that the McKeller ship involves two main characters that causes a lot of the problems; while there were/are people who dislike the Rodney/Katie ship and the Teyla/Kanaan ship, it didn't cause such a divide because both ships involved a main character and a minor character. The writing of all three ships are all equal to each other in quality but there is/was a great deal less screentime devoted to the latter ships since they (the writers) have to pay for the guest stars to show up while they're already handing out paychecks to the actors. Which means it easier to spend more time on a main/main and you are, in fact, obligated to.

When you've created a subplot for two of your main characters, you can't just ignore it. You *have* to spend time on it and focus on it. It wouldn't be a problem if this wasn't the last season, our last chance for Team episodes, and if the writers could write romance. (To everyone who's still wondering if they writers can, no. They can't). I suppose it's a bit unfair to say that the writers of Atlantis are poor writers but it's hard to deny that. If you compare Atlantis to Battlestar Galactica or Firefly...well, Atlantis's scripts aren't winning that competition.

It's still sad, though, that the fandom has fallen apart of this. I think when the show ends and some time passes, the fandom will come back together. Perhaps not as close or as happy as it used to be but I don't think the divide will be quite as sharp and painful once the ending's come.

Re: tl;dr reply ahead!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't blame the McKeller fans in the slightest; I'm if anything a bit envious that I can't see the show they see. They don't see SGA as having changed at all, while as to me it seems - not fundamentally changed, perhaps, but short of much of what I loved, and long on things I'd rather weren't there at all. And that's the writers' fault, not any fan's.

I agree that Gero is especially to blame - it's not just the McKeller; he wrote the Rodney & Daniel stuff, too (which I love, but now would've rather that had been a team ep...) I get the feeling Gero is just bored with writing the team and the old relationships; he still likes Rodney but he wants to do new things with him, doesn't care about his relationship with the team (well, with John; Gero's never really cared about Rodney's relationship with Ronon and Teyla, that's always annoyed me...) And Gero's the only one of the primary writers who really likes doing character-focused eps, so now the only character-focus we get is Rodney-with-other-people.

It also irritates me that Keller got no other storyline except her relationship with Rodney. She got no other major relationships (her friendship with Teyla was pretty much totally dropped, and what she had with Ronon was sporadic at best) and otherwise she didn't develop in the least - when the character was introduced, I thought we were going to see her come into her own on Atlantis, but in "Infection" she proves herself scientifically incompetent, and come "Identity" she's no better at handling herself in trouble than she was back in "Missing". In 2 seasons she's had to be rescued more than any other character in the show, and damsel in distress is just not how I like my female characters to be! The writers really did her wrong...I'd feel sorry for the character, if I weren't so frustrated.

But no, I don't think the fandom divide's insurmountable...I do think we might've lost a few fans from it, which upsets me, but once the finale airs and the dust settles, a lot of us will still be here, and together again. *crosses fingers*

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

Please anything to make that ending and the season arc go away. So poorly written, no development, no chemistry, no believability, I'll buy the parasite. At least that would explain it - how it got in Gero's brain I don't want to know! *g* Just sad that they had to end the series with that instead of the beloved team. Just like a last slap, a last dig at the seemingly majority of fans who don't agree or believe in the writer's pets this year. I look to fanfic to lift my depression and hope and pray that the movie will be about the team - the John and Rodney we know and love.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of us are looking forward to the series officially being Over, so we can get to writing fix-its! XP

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

Another very interesting post. So many things to comment on, but I wanted to give my 2 cents on the season and the McKeller. I love all the members of the team, but my favorite is John. My feelings are that the team was sacrificed this season so that the year became the Jennifer Keller show featuring Rodney McKay. They didn't add Keller, they subtracted everyone and everything else. They took a background character, ala Elizabeth, Carson, Sam & Woolsey, and instead made her the star of the show. The character wasn't developed well enough to carry or deserve that status. Then Gero & Mallozzi decide that contrary to what we've been shown for 4 years, John and Rodney aren't friends but merely colleagues, and that Rodney can only be happy with the love of "The" woman, the writer's dream girl Keller. So we get this undying love that had no build up, no development, with two characters who, to many, have no chemistry and it just didn't work for a great many fans. The whole season was about this arc that did nothing to further or develop a plot, vanquish or meet an enemy or push the show into a new area. Instead it stalled because ALL the attention was on Keller and Rodney. Teyla, Ronon and the lead of the series, John, were demoted to recurring status for much of the season. John Sheppard had 1 episode featuring his character. One. Teyla got no development - is she married, does she truly love Kanaan, is she happy? Poor Ronon faced character assassination because he had to revert to the angry, violent man to make sure there was no chance that Keller would choose him. Is he happy? John had no development whatsoever. Even in Remnants, we don't get a payoff as to why he is so guilt ridden. Does John keep in touch with Dave or Nancy? Is he seeing anyone or interested in anyone? Is he happy? We don't know because the writers don't care about anyone other than Keller and Rodney. And Rodney, when he is with Keller, is unrecognizable. He is like a middle schooler with his first girlfriend and has to walk on pins and needles, can't be himself because she really doesn't like the real him. He has to lose himself to be with the "perfect" woman. So when the McKeller, which is the only focus of season 5, doesn't work there is nothing else to fall back on. No sub arcs or character interaction or other plotlines that a non-shipper can focus on or care about. I have been left out in the cold, basically told to love the McKeller, how could you not? Well I don't and I resent having it shoved in my face week after week. I resent that Keller, who I feel is a background character, has more character centric episodes than John Sheppard. I resent that the team episodes have been sacrificed for more Keller and Rodney. So yes, I am guilty of negativity, but this year the show isn't the one I've been watching for the previous 4 years. Maybe if the writer's would have had other arcs or storylines for the rest of the team, I could have looked past the McKeller and concentrated on what was happening with Teyla or Ronon or John. But there wasn't. They didn't give us anything. I try to pick out things I like and I did love Prodigal, The Shrine (minus the end)and Search and Rescue. Notice those were about or involved the team and were written in character. I miss John Sheppard this season as I do Ronon and Teyla. I even miss the real Rodney. Like you, I have even been liking Rodney less because I don't know who that guy is.

I put the blame squarely on the writers. They wrote for themselves and Gero even admitted to Marty Sueing Rodney in BS. I think if they would have written for everyone or kept the ship in the background or very subtle there wouldn't be the backlash happening now. The sad thing is they knew what people thought about the Keller character and what the reaction would be and they did it anyway to indulge themselves. I would have given anything so that John would have had half the attention/development that Rodney got over the years. I feel like TPTB pulled the rug from under me this year. A cruel joke.

[d_odyssey.livejournal.com]

As to the fan divide, at this point I don't think it can be helped. The McKeller fen can never make me like the ship. I am happy for them that they can enjoy it and enjoy the show. I would never dream of going on a pro board and saying anything bad. Let them have their squee. That said, I don't know if they realize the heartbreak and pain those of us on the other side feel. I feel like the show I loved was stolen away and replaced by a bad soap opera, by a rejected Harlequin script. I don't care enough about Keller to see a whole season and a romance focused on her. By adding so much of her this year, we didn't get to see John, Teyla, Ronon and team. Not enough action and humor, too much romance. I love my show and feel it is being ripped away. I still love the team, Woolsey, Lorne, Zelenka and keep watching for them . Watching and hoping it will change, go back to the show I love- still hoping so for the movie. Having a place to vent and to see that so many others feel the same way is cathartic and helps to sooth my frayed nerves and disappointment. So I'm not really sorry for expressing those feelings and getting them out, but it is not meant to bring anyone feeling differently down. I don't like McKeller and unfortunately that was the focus of too much of season 5. I still love SGA. I love and adore John Sheppard. I love Rodney McKay and Teyla Emmagan and Ronon Dex. I love the team camaraderie, loyalty, humor, sacrifice and love.

I truly believe that once canon ends and time has passed and the wounds aren't so raw, that everything will settle down. In fact, I look forward to reading fanfic, for the talented writers to fix what TPTB broke this year. I look forward to McShep and to gen team fics where the focus is on the team. I can skip past any McKeller, happily leaving it to those who enjoy it. At that point, everyone will be free to read/write what makes them happy and what they think Atlantis should be. I really hope that as that happens and a little time passes, we can all express our love for the show and maybe agree to disagree on some of the hot points. Long live SGA!

[irrelevant.livejournal.com]

I think if there'd been more team/McShep stuff as well as the McKeller, most fans wouldn't be as bothered by the McKeller.

I think you've pretty much summed things up right there.

I'm not really part of the SGA fandom. Or, I should say, not active in the fen portion of things. I watched the entirety of seasons 1-4 between October and December of 2008. That's... a lot to assimilate in that amount of time. I didn't even bother starting on season five until I'd finished the first four and to be honest, when I finally got there, I was disappointed. The team element is what made the show work for me in the first place (I'm a One Piece fan, it's that feeling of nakama, you know?) and once a show's writers throw a developing romance between prominent characters into the works, team dynamics are going to change.

The McKay/Keller aspect--I wish the writers hadn't gone there. If I wanted romance, I'd watch soaps or some such. Unless it's there for comic relief (run-ins with attractive aliens by various and sundry team members, etc.) adding romance to a sci-fi/drama/action continuity is just a bad, bad idea. And in this case boring, cheesy and cringe-worthy. I skimmed through a good half of my season five downloads. If there's anything more embarrassing than McKay and romance in the same context, I have yet to see it. Don't get me wrong, I like McKay, get a real kick out of him, but--no. Just no. In any case, I'm predominantly a Sheppard and/or team fan. As for Keller, she's just sort of there, not really worthy of intense feeling one way or the other. Or she wasn't until the writers decided on their present course. I think maybe even McShep fans would have less of a problem with McKeller if it wasn't so badly executed in canon.

Fissures in the fandom, I haven't been around long enough to notice. I probably wouldn't have even if I had been. I truly believe in letting those who want to be excited over whatever excites them be excited. And doing my own thing far away from possible explosions. There's a lot in the SGA fandom that I don't care for; many entrenched views on characters that I don't agree with. I figure it's better for my health if I just let the annoyance go. I mean, it's a TV show. In a few months I'll find a new shiny, maul it a bit then let it escape mostly intact. Maybe the SGA fandom in general needs to take a step back and remember that this ending is not the end of the world or any ship, really, and could be seen as a good thing. Once canon is set, fic writers of het, slash or gen can take the plot wherever they like.

Seriously, the season five story line being what it is, I think ending the show with Enemy at the Gate is very possibly a damn good thing. And having watched the entire series in just over two months, I think I can say that without a whole lot of bias. Whether you ship McShep, McKeller or what-have-you, bad writing is still bad writing and in 2008 SGA plot sucked. There's common ground if I've ever seen it. Pity the various SGA fandom factions haven't.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Nakama-ship, exactly! ("nakama" is such the best word for that friend/coworker/family vibe I so love...!)

Rodney's my favorite character but yeah, the way they write "romantic McKay" on the show makes me squirm - I love Rodney but I can't stand the way he is around Keller.

Whether you ship McShep, McKeller or what-have-you, bad writing is still bad writing and in 2008 SGA plot sucked. There's common ground if I've ever seen it. Pity the various SGA fandom factions haven't.

Ahh, but that's where the divide is - it's not a standard 'shipper war; there are fans who like McKeller in theory and fans who don't but all agree that it's poorly done in canon. But there are some fans who like the writing, who enjoyed this season and think it's as good as any other and haven't perceived any change - they're the ones who're splitting from fandom, because they aren't as eager as the rest of us are to ignore or rewrite canon!

And I should be able to just let my annoyance go! But it's been a while since I've had a fandom as, hmm, intense, as SGA has been? It's inspired me in fic as few things have, and I really enjoy that creative rush, I'm not ready to drop it yet.

[katheli.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think that the divide can´t be helped because people just react differently to ships all the time. Especially in shows where there normally aren´t any.
As for me, I do like romance but not on any show, and SGA just isn´t one of them. So, no McKeller for me, thanks.

The really sad thing is: I always loved Rodney best, followed closely by John and the rest of the team. (Started out not liking Teyla much, but she really grew on me)
I always go for the characters that have faults and aren´t treated like Superstars on the show. (Which is why I didn´t care for John at first)
But now, in Season 5 I find that I just don´t care for Rodney anymore, or I DO, but only in Team episodes not when he´s the only central character or (worse) with Keller.
And that means I can´t enjoy much McShep fic anymore because I can´t stand it if authors treat one character much better than the other. I always like that at first, when it´s the same character *I* prefer (like Daniel in Jack/Daniel SG-1 fic) but then it grates on me and in the SG-1 fandom I´ve actually turned into a Jack-girl. And I always loved Daniel more on the show. It was fandom that made me change that preference, just like SGA fic made me dislike Rodney. (only in fic but still)

Maybe I´ve just had extreme bad luck with the stories I´ve been reading but it seems to me that it´s always Rodneys who´s: in distress/dying/sick and has to be saved; suffers horrible nightmares, saves everyone, is hit on by everybody (and thankfully I don´t get the impression on the show that everybody wants into Rodneys pants) - and Rodney is always right and John is always at fault. That´s NOT how it is on the show and that´s good because I´m pretty sure Rodney would be an extremely disliked character otherwise.
Of course, seaosn 5...but it´s not that bad.

It´s scary how much influence fandom has.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think you have had bad luck - there is Rodney-slanted fic out there (but then, in some of the gen side of the fandom there's tons of Shep-whump fic where John is the one who suffers) but most of my favorite McShep treats the characters equally. I'm a Rodney fangirl first but I love John, too; I put most of the hurt on Rodney because I like to see my favorites suffer, but I'd never want it to be all John's fault. Partly because I like Rodney to be flawed (I also prefer chars with faults), and also because I love to see John protecting and supporting Rodney. My favorite pairing stories are always those which treat both characters equally. And several of the top McShep authors are major John-fans, over Rodney - I could give you some recs, if you'd like!

--Which is actually one of the major problems I have with McKeller, because the show is playing it like Rodney has to try as hard as he can to have Keller as a girlfriend, while as Keller is never ever wrong, never has to apologize or anything; it's like she's considered to be a saint just for "putting up" with the man she supposedly loves. Argh!

[katheli.livejournal.com]

Oh, recs would be great. I never find the good stuff, although I´ve read well written fics where the characters are treated equally as well. I don´t even think I´ve read so many Rodney-centric McShep fics it´s just that those really left a bad taste.
I love Rodney in a good fic, I love him on the show - interestingly, it´s just what you pointed out - that Rodney is portrayed as being oh-so-lucky to be Keller´s boyfriend (which is ridiculous)- that makes me okay with how Rodney-centric the show´s become. The good thing is that it gives me several ideas about how the relationship between them *could* end, after the show.;)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Were you reading older fics, out of curiosity? Especially Post-Trinity Fics have a habit of writing Rodney as the tragic hero making John out to be a jerk...the more recent trend in McShep fic is that John is pining and Rodney is oblivious, which puts John in a more sympathetic role.

That being said, if you're a Sheppard girl and you read gen, there's a bunch of gen authors who write Sheppard-focused h/c. Check out rhymer23, kodiak_bear, and kristen999, and their flists and recs for more. friendshipper and tipper_green also write gen, with a team focus; John & Rodney are often the center of the h/c but there's no major preference given to one or the other.

As far as McShep goes, crysothemis is a John-fan who writes delightful stories in which they're both complete idiots, seperis is a McShepper whose clear favorite character is John (her SGA stuff can get too dark for me but she's an excellent writer). You should also try sheafrotherdon and aesc (and their co-writing cohorts) as they're talented writers who love both chars and wouldn't wrong either of them.

There's a ton of other great writers in the fandom who treat both chars well, but I admit I tend to go for Rodney-centric authors myself (though I don't like to see John being made the lesser char for it) - I'm specifically reccing you those that I tend to see as more John-focused, because yeah, depending on what parts of the fandom you've been in, you could get the idea that Rodney is everyone's favorite, when he's not...!

[katheli.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, thanks. It´s always so difficult to find the good stuff when one´s relatively new to a fandom.^^