Guardian canon question: on Dixing anatomy

[xparrot]

I'm sick and can't concentrate enough to write so have been musing on Guardian instead, as you do, apropos of brush_and_lantern 's current monthly theme, and have a question about Dixingren.

In the Guardian novel, being an urban fantasy, Shen Wei is a ghost/ghoul monster from hell. In the drama, which had to be "science fiction" due to censorship banning magic in modern settings, he and his people are (according to last-minute rewrites of the show) Dixingren, aliens who landed on the planet of Haixing and then mutated to develop dark energy abilities.

But if they are aliens, how close are Dixingren to the (apparently human) Haixingren? One would expect them to be a completely different species (or phylum! or kingdom!!), but in grand comic-book tradition they overtly appear physically identical to the Haixingren, and they may be able to interbreed (the characters speculate that some people, such as the web novelist in ep 7, might have Dixing genes, implying some Haixingren have a Dixing ancestor and so might develop powers). So do Dixingren actually have any physical differences, other than the superpowers?

Now, as a fanfic writer, I say hell yes, of course they do; what is the possible reason for making them aliens unless there are differences to explore? I'm biased, obviously; I love speculating about alien anatomy/biology and keep writing fic with Shen Wei being very non-human in ways that I doubt canon intended but entertain me.

There are more minor details. Like, in the novel Shen Wei as a soulless hell creature is cool to the touch, and some drama fic likewise have it that Dixingren are cooler or warmer than Haixingren. At least for me, I include this not because I think the drama's Dixingren are actually ghosts, but because I enjoy Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei having such distinct reminders of their being of two worlds, and also temperature differences are *ahem* hot...

Such differences raise interesting questions about how to distinguish Dixingren -- e.g. if they did have a different basal body temperature, infrared cameras could detect it. And indeed, it seems like the SID does have ways to physically identify Dixingren -- in episode 2 when the TK guy goes to attack Li Qian in the hospital, Lin Jing watching on the lab cameras gets an alert on his computer and reports, "This person's vital signs are very abnormal." (这个人的生命表征似乎特别异常). That he has an alert set up for this implies that Dixingren do have noticeable physiological differences from Haixingren -- at least some Dixingren, or some of the time, perhaps when they're actively using their powers? Likewise in episode 12, Lin Jing's scan of Shen Wei registers zero brain activity -- which could be a nod to his soulless existence in the novel, or could mean Shen Wei messed with the scan in some way, presumably because it might detect anatomical difference that he was trying to conceal.

But as far as I know, the show never explains exactly what those differences are. Minor body temperature variances is one type of sign that could be scanned for at a distance with current technology, so seems a likely possibility -- at the same time raising questions like, when Zhao Yunlan is trying to figure out Shen Wei's secrets, why doesn't he try more of such tests?

(My personal headcanon is the one I used in my own drama canon fix-it AU -- that the Dixingren aren't aliens at all but humans who were affected by the spaceship/meteor that crashed, gaining superpowers, and then were rejected by their people and over millennia the story became that they actually had come from the stars. It would explain why they look identical to Haixingren, speak the same language, have a similar culture. And any physiological differences that do exist are just due to the effects of dark energy. Frankly I assume this was the original story in the drama, and then it was either too fantastical or too much like X-men so they went all-in with the aliens? Which I will take, because hell yeah, aliens!)

ETA: qikiqtarjuaq suggests a different interpretation of the opening to explain why Haixingren, Dixingren and Yashou all seem so similar, that might be what the drama was actually going for?

Comments

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I keep re-watching and re-reading the prologue, and it always confuses me on the origins of Haixingren. Were they meant to be the original species on the planet? Because my initial understanding was that the spaceship crashed on an ancient planet. Then its people split up into three tribes, basically. One of them living underground mutated over time to develop special powers. Another group I guess were hippie tree-huggers who loved animals, and developed the ability to shapeshift. And the rest of the population just lived aboveground and became Haixingren. So having come from the same species and diverged in an evolutionary way, it would make sense for them to still share a decent amount of similar characteristics.

But if Haixingren were the original species on the planet, then I think it is a bit odd that there aren't more major differences. Unless of course, Dixingren/Yashou had adaptable biology (kinda like camouflage) that let them integrate with their environments very well?

There's lots of fun alien places to take things with the premise!

[xparrot]

Huh!! I'd always assumed the Haixingren were native to the planet, since it's called Haixing -- but if that was specifically the name of the overworld where they settled, then it makes a lot more sense to me, that they all came from another planet! (and you could speculate that they were some colony ship from Earth...this doesn't explain why Haixing has Earth things like Big Ben and the Eiffel Tower, but...)

...I still want to know why the Dixingren went underground. Doesn't the intro say specifically that it was being underground that was why they mutated to get superpowers? But why did they go down there to begin with?!?

The alien premise does allow for so much speculation, it's pretty much a free buffet to fandom, you can get almost anything you want out of it!

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I don't know! Every time I re-watch the prologue, that's what I think it's saying, but so many people in fandom have your interpretation that I can't say with any confidence at all that my interpretation is even remotely correct!

I have to think that at the start, there were plenty of resources both aboveground and underground, and given so many sci-fi worlds often have underground societies, I figured they were just a group of people who wanted to live somewhere else. Maybe there were scientists interested in studying something down below. Maybe it had a certain set of resources that were valuable aboveground, so the traders/gatherers moved there. After all, if Dixing and Haixing used the same currency, then there must be trade!

I've always really wanted to read more about the SID/Dixing meeting other aliens and just various sci-fi adventures. There's a lot of potential to expand the canon beyond Dragon City!

[xparrot]

Do you know if there's any consensus in the Chinese side of the fandom about the origins? Because if assuming the Haixingren were native to the planet is all on the English-speaking side, we're all trying to figure it out from possibly wonky translations, so maybe the Chinese is clearer? (in the English translations, it describes "The Yashou" and then "The other aliens chose to stay deep underground on the planet" -- that "the other" definitely sounds like there were only 2 types of aliens, and so the 3rd people are natives. But I'm very curious what the Chinese is!)


I'm also still trying to figure out how a meteor crash destabilized the underground worse than aboveground. Like, Dixing seems to be deep enough to be protected, you'd think it would be aboveground that was impacted more? Or is it that Dixing always got a lot of resources from aboveground (trade of some sort) so then the meteor crash happened and Haixing didn't want to trade anymore but kept its limited resources to itself? (also gotta love the vagueness of "resources" -- was it food and water? or fuel? were they all fighting over oil!?)

[kimboo_york]

Heyyyy! I honestly assumed the same thing, that Haixingren where the aliens, and I watched that prologue a few times too, but then everyone else thinks the reverse and I was SO CONFUSED. It is actually a relief that someone else read it this way too!

To a point speculation is a crap shoot, this canon is ALL OVER THE PLACE really, but it's an interesting idea to play with!!!

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I am so glad I'm not alone in that strange interpretation, haha! *high-five*

[ranalore]

What do you make of the way Da Qing tells the story to Zhao Yunlan when he goes through the wormhole to Ye Olde Haixing era? Because I'd always interpreted the prologue as implying the Haixingren were native to the planet, too, and Da Qing's statement to Zhao Yunlan about the Yashouren and Dixingren being the ones on the spaceship seems to back that up. I mean, both the prologue and Da Qing's explanation are set up as received wisdom, or legends, so they could still be wrong. I could even see the "no-powers" group of aliens laying claim to the "native" title as a way to try to gain social currency to compensate for their lack of ability to shapeshift or wield dark energy. It would also help make sense of why there are known cases of Haixingren sometimes manifesting powers in similar fashion to Dixingren, and why something like Ouyang's serum, apparently concocted with Dixing organic materials obtained in some fashion (this was one of the things he was trying to get Lin Jing to do for him, remember, but Lin Jing refused), would work to force an Haixingren to manifest a power, rather than simply suffer some kind of systemic shutdown and die.

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I'll be honest and say that I straight up didn't remember Da Qing's story! LOL

[frith_in_thorns]

I picked up the temperature difference thing from fanon while I was doing my post-watch AO3 binge and I liked it so just sort of stuck with it without really thinking about it too much XD (I figured it was a novel detail since I saw it so regularly.)

Actually, on my first watch-through I found the prologue so confusing I basically blanked it from my mind (I have since seen it using solo's subs, which were considerably more intelligible if no less weird) and then I was utterly baffled when Ma Gui mentioned a spaceship, having zero memory of such a thing. But you're right, there are so many wasted opportunities/explanations!

[xparrot]

The temperature difference thing is oddly divisive in parts of the fandom, I have seen complaints about it turning up in fic. In part because it is from the novel, and I've seen speculation that the people writing it maybe are confused and think the Dixingren are actually ghosts...but, I mean, whether the Dixingren are actually aliens or descended from the same species as Haixingren, it just makes sense to me that running on dark energy instead of light energy would make for at least a few physiological differences! Plus, yeah, I just enjoy Zhao Yunlan literally warming Shen Wei up...

The prologue is just wild! I remembered the spaceship but missed that the meteor crash was something that happened later, so was confused myself with the past stuff until I watched the opening again...
...no, I lie, even after I rewatched the opening I was still confused! :P Oh, this show...but such opportunities for fic!

[extrapenguin]

As someone who doesn't subscribe to the temperature difference, it's mostly that all the fics have it as being a noticeable difference, and if it were a noticeable difference, Shen Wei's secret would've been out at the first handshake.

(Also, Dixingians live underground, where it's warmer, so one would think they'd be adapted to warmer temperatures than humans, and you can have Zhao Yunlan snuggling up to his heavily dressed alien boyf on that basis!)

[bonibaru]

Solution: write only AUs and you can make them anything you want :D

[xparrot]

Or just make them whatever I want anyway! XD (honestly my biggest takeaway from examining canon is that it's so inconsistent/open to interpretation you can just get what you want from it!)

[frith_in_thorns]

This is definitely something great about this sometimes quite stupid canon -- it's so easy to justify so many things that coincidentally are exactly what you need to be true in order to make a fic idea work :D :D

[bonibaru]

It's one of my favorite things tbh. Tighter canons sort of rope you in to a smaller playground.

[rheasilvia]

Yes! I also think that's one of canon's particular strengths. It's so charmingly focussed on the important things (read: the relationship!) that the worldbuilding is malleable and can fit around it. :-)

[rheasilvia]

This is a great topic to muse on - and I think everyone has their own headcanon on this! :-) Personally, I absolutely think that there must be physiological differences, but they must be ones that are only possible to detect through a medical scan (or traumatic injury). So for all we know, Dixingren might not have livers, their kidney might be in their left kneecap, and what seems like a heartbeat might be their brainbeat instead - who's going to know?

On the other hand, while I do understand the attraction of the temperature difference, I don't find it plausible. As you say, it's too easily detectable. The SID would never have to wonder if someone is Dixingren, and would just whip out their infrared goggles at every strange crime scene and interrogation as a matter of routine. Not to mention that Dixingren could never really get close to anyone at all without attracting notice - every handshake would cause comment, and in a closer relationship the difference would be impossible to pass off simply as cold hands. (Mirror!Girl could not possibly have switched places with her double, for example.)

But I hasten to add that I am in no way saying that you/people who like the temp diff shouldn't use it in fiction! In fanfic, the most important rule should be what the author wants to write. That's rather the point, in my view. :-)

My personal headcanon is the one I used in my own drama canon fix-it AU -- that the Dixingren aren't aliens at all but humans who were affected by the spaceship/meteor that crashed, gaining superpowers, and then were rejected by their people and over millennia the story became that they actually had come from the stars.

That's a really great explanation - which also covers the absence of super advanced technology in Ancient Haixing.

My own headcanon (or one of them, actually *g*) is that Dixingren adapted to Haixing just as the Yashou did, but not by melding with indigenous life, but through advanced mimicry. The people who arrived on the spaceship actually looked completely different.

[xparrot]

Huh, I wonder if that's part of the issue with people disliking the temperature difference -- I don't imagine or write it to be THAT different? like, I don't generally think Dixingren are 10 degrees cooler than Haixingren! I was assuming that they run a degree or two cooler. So still within generally human range, so it's difficult to detect through infrared, and it wouldn't strike people as bizarre, just that they tend to have cool hands etc.

Though, as for how detectable it is -- that was part of my point; in the show itself, it strongly implies that Dixingren ARE physiologically detectable sometimes? So I have no idea why they aren't whipping out detection devices all the time?? I can't make sense of that at all, tbh, that they can identify Dixingren sometimes but not always (I suspect it's because the writers realized quickly that it made the writing more difficult, but then they didn't go back and change that early ep...)

which also covers the absence of super advanced technology in Ancient Haixing.

Yeah this is another thing I wondered about, how they lost the technology from the spaceship...(though it does explain how they had writing 10K years ago?)

[rheasilvia]

Hmm. I guess I assumed that in order to be noticeable at all, it would be more than a degree or two... Perhaps not 10 degrees, but a difference that a Haixingren can feel should also be easily detectable by technological means (sensors are generally far more precise). But hey, who knows, in this universe. For all we know, they might never have developed infrared technology at all. Or Haixingren are super-sensitive to temperature. ;-)

I suspect it's because the writers realized quickly that it made the writing more difficult, but then they didn't go back and change that early ep...

I suspect you are right. :-) And I still don't understand why on Haixing Shen Wei volunteered for a scan that was bound to end up extremely troublesome for him in some way, especially since his lack of prowess with technology makes any attempt at fudging the results highly risky. (Maybe he thought he could, but messed up...)

it does explain how they had writing 10K years ago

Given their general cultural level at the point of time Zhao Yunlan travelled back to, I would consider it implausible for them not to have writing... Though, yes, that the language is the same that's still spoken in modern Haixing is... rather odd. ;-)

[naye]

The baseline Caucasian/East Asian temperature difference is about a degree Celsius (37/36C), and it's noticeable enough in my experience! So it makes perfect sense to me that 1) Haixingren themselves span a spectrum of baselines and 2) the Shen Wei's is only a few degrees below Zhao Yunlan's.

1) Means scans would catch so many humans it wouldn't be worth it and 2) would mean Zhao Yunlan wouldn't have been able to the tell if the cold hands were because Shen Wei had low blood pressure or Dixingren biology before he knew, but after he finds out of course he's hyper aware of it!

[extrapenguin]

My personal view is that Dixingians and Yashou engineered themselves to be basically subspecies of the local dominant species when they arrived, because hey, if you're running away from something why not take the opportunity to disguise yourself? (Though I also have a bunch of other worldbuilding takes on this I'd like to explore with fic.)

In general I see a fair chunk of fic be all about making the Dixingians alien and incomprehensible in ways that are directly copied off the novel, even when that directly contradicts drama canon. We know they eat, sleep, and excrete, and are similar enough to humans that they can't be picked up on casual observation or (likely) any easily portable scans. I do actually enjoy xeno and aliens, but just ... give Shen Wei purple energy tentacles or something that doesn't directly contradict canon.

[xparrot]

The Dixing engineering themselves to match the locals makes as much sense as any!

I can't speak for other fans, but at least for me, I was questioning whether Shen Wei needed to eat or sleep while watching the show, way before I read the novel or any fic or knew anything about novel!Shen Wei. Just in the show he comes across as pretty inhuman! My own headcanon is that most Dixingren are like humans (excepting minor differences that are close enough to normal human variation to not stand out) but there are exceptions (e.g. those who can become shadows or live in mirrors) -- and Shen Wei is probably an exception, between all his powers and his Hallows exposure. Like, I think most Dixingren need to sleep. Shen Wei, though, I'm not sure. (He probably does have a bedroom with bed because it came with the apartment; whether he uses it, who knows!)

ETA: Also fwiw in the novel Shen Wei can and does pass as human -- Zhao Yunlan, a trained ghost hunter, doesn't realize Shen Wei is inhuman until he actually falls unconscious in front of him (and then stops showing lifesigns). So the idea that Dixingren are noticeably different from humans I think is more a drama thing than a novel thing?

[extrapenguin]

I was questioning whether Shen Wei needed to eat or sleep while watching the show
But we repeatedly see him eat onscreen? And Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing seem to have no trouble getting a room with a bed on their visit to Dixing, so the average Dixingian must sleep, and while one could say that Shen Wei doesn't need to sleep for Reasons, I just can't with making Shen Wei the most super specialest unique ever. (He grew up as a soldier during wartime; it's very plausible that he simply takes 15-min catnaps whenever he has the time and subsists off that. Or that Dixingian circadian rhythms are not tied to the 24h diurnal cycle like humans' are!)

(Huh, it seems that a lot of my complains boil down to "But *why* have you decided to make them differ from humans *in the most boring way possible*?")

So the idea that Dixingren are noticeably different from humans I think is more a drama thing than a novel thing?
Huh, that doesn't match my fandom experience at all! All the stuff I've noticed was either people saying that Shen Wei must be inhuman in exactly the same ways as he is in the novel (explicitly namechecking the novel), or finding fic where Shen Wei's/Dixingians' inhumanness is emphasized and then suddenly Shen Wei is the Ghost Slayer or something else very blatantly novel-based. The number of "fun with aliens" drama-based fics I've encountered is much, much lesser.

[naye]

because hey, if you're running away from something why not take the opportunity to disguise yourself?

...running away from something? There's nothing in the show about running away from anything? Unless you mean the Dixingren and Yashou were running away from the Haixing natives?

We know they eat, sleep, and excrete
We know that Shen Wei eats, but not that he must eat. We don't know that he sleeps, other than to pass out from drink. We literally never see him sleeping a natural sleep, or saying he's hungry/needs to eat or anything like it. So given that the show also had him spend ten thousand years buried under a thin layer of dirt to no ill effect, it's very possible to get the idea from the show that he needs neither sleep nor food the way humans do.

Shen Wei might of course have picked up no-sleep and self-sustaining abilities, but the show really doesn't make it clear one way or the other that Dixingren have the exact same basic needs as humans, so I don't think it can be said that "we know" any of those things. (And honestly, I'm fine not having any canon take on what Dixingren do in the bathroom, but you can't claim that we know they poop, because it's never discussed in the show. Yes, it is very very likely - but it is just a logical argument, and not a sourced statement.)

[extrapenguin]

...running away from something? There's nothing in the show about running away from anything? Unless you mean the Dixingren and Yashou were running away from the Haixing natives?
Sorry, fever, I wasn't clear enough there! There's been a lot of speculation about why the Dixingians and Yashou turned up and how it was such a coincidence that the meteor hit so soon after they arrived, cosmically speaking.

the show really doesn't make it clear one way or the other that Dixingren have the exact same basic needs as humans
But canon does give us the evidence? We see two Dixingians go to the bathroom (Zhu Jiu, Chu Shuzhi), and everything about the context makes it so that them having bodily functions is normal and expected. Ergo, standard average Dixingian excretes. For sleeping, we have Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan easily and readily receive a bedroom on their jaunt to Dixing that doesn't look to be at all hastily refurnished. Plus we see mirror girl sleep. (There might also be additional evidence with Chu Shuzhi in those Nightmare Master episodes.) And Chu Shuzhi eats food enough to have preferences, and we see Shen Wei eat as well, and I'm sure there would be side note references to Dixingians of the week eating, if one would go and look. Now, sure, maybe they do all this at different frequencies than humans do, but if the topic is whether they do this at all, then yes, they do.

given that the show also had him spend ten thousand years buried under a thin layer of dirt to no ill effect
And as for Shen Wei, this was very clearly caused by the Hallows, not something a Dixingian could expect. Just like Ye Zun being trapped in a pillar.