on negativity in fandom
Nov. 17th, 2019 04:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xparrotI was writing this whole long rambling post about responsibility, and apologizing for and trying to minimize accidental harm, but then it changed tangents and I think what I most want to say is this:
In fandom, please be careful about how negative you are, and how you are negative.
This relates to anything from offering unsolicited crit on a fic (or heck, solicited crit) to hating on a part of canon, or to being an anti, or to discussing your dislike of a popular fic trope.
I'm not saying this for reasons of courtesy and manners, though I think that counts for something. But it's really for a much more selfish reason: Negativity can make people disengage, and that's overall detrimental to fandom. Which I selfishly care about, as a fan.
Spoilers: fandom is a really fucking emotional thing for most people. Our interests and obsessions are a pretty core part of our identities, and we wouldn't be devoting time and energy to them if we weren't mentally and emotionally engaged. Hearing that someone hates something you love can hurt, even when there is no hurt intended. That's even before we get into the question of fanfic and fanart and vids and other fan creations, and how personal one's art is to most artists. Especially for amateur artists, who aren't getting paid and so the only impetus to share our creations is for emotional validation.
There have been more than a few fic writers who have quit writing because of crit -- because getting crit is really hard even for many professional writers, and people writing for fun may not have the emotional energy to deal with it, or just don't want to, and so they stop, or stop sharing their work publicly. But it's not just direct crit that can do this. If you're writing a trope you love, or a pairing you love, and then you see people talking about how much they dislike that trope or how gross that pairing is, it can make you hesitate to keep writing, or at least hesitate to share your work, knowing you might be inviting crit. Or even just thinking that no one is going to want to read it. (Then, some of us are the opposite and such things inspire us to keep going out of pure spite; but even for me that's something I have to work myself into and it takes its own emotional toll.)
And this hurts, not just the writer, but the fandom as a whole, because someone quitting writing means less fic in the fandom for the rest of us. And even if it's not fic that you like personally, that you'd be happy not to see any more of -- someone else surely would like it, and want more, and do you want to spoil their fun, too?
Likewise, talking about disliking canon can stop discussion, because it can be hard to contradict someone -- especially someone with whom you share a fandom, so there can be that sense of comradery, being in the same community. So if you see a fan friend talking about how X canon thing sucks, rather than argue back that you love that thing, it can be easier to not rock the boat, to not say anything -- but then not feeling comfortable to talk about what you love in a fandom can drain your interest in it, and with it the fandom; and then you drift away, and the fandom shrinks.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't be negative. For one thing, sometimes it's important to do so. Calling out things like racism or toxic behavior can be seen as negative but can also be really crucial for the overall health and safety of a community and the members in it. Pointing out that a fic isn't sufficiently tagged can be a type of criticism (and can hurt a writer) but may help many other fans who could be impacted.
For two, complaining about what we dislike as well as what we like is a big part of fanning for a lot of us -- for me definitely; I enjoy a good hard critical analysis, and I'll be honest, sometimes I take guiltily gleeful pleasure in shredding something I didn't like. And sometimes, too, it feels great to talk about and find out I'm not alone in hating X thing. But I try -- have been trying harder -- to limit how I do it. When I criticize canon, I try to tag/mark it for negativity and squee-harshing, so people who don't want to see it can avoid it. When I criticize fanworks (either a specific fic I don't like, or a trope/ship/etc) I try to ensure it's not personal, and/or to keep it in more private locked channels that won't get back to the writer(s), because that's really all about me and what I like; it's not another fan's fault that I have my preferences, and the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the fun of someone else who is enjoying the fandom as much as I am, if in a different way.
I'm far from great at this -- I've hurt friends on more than one occasion without meaning to because I got too into a fannish debate and didn't realize the feelings I was provoking. I have no doubt that I've discouraged other fans from fanning on and writing things they enjoy, and I'm sorry for that. But I'm trying, and will keep trying -- I've been trying harder especially lately because my current fandom is quite small; just about all of us non-lurkers in it have interacted with each other to some extent, so it makes any interactions more personal than they would be in a larger fandom in which many people don't know each other. I'm not perfect but I'm doing my best. And hopefully my fandoms will be a more encouraging place for it.
tl;dr: make squee, not war?
ETA: this post's original subject was "not-so-vague vague-posting" because I was originally inspired to write it by a mess in my current fandom. My original intent morphed in the writing of it, though, to be more about my own changing feelings about how I interact with the fan communities I'm in, for better or for worse, so I've adjusted the subject to match.
In fandom, please be careful about how negative you are, and how you are negative.
This relates to anything from offering unsolicited crit on a fic (or heck, solicited crit) to hating on a part of canon, or to being an anti, or to discussing your dislike of a popular fic trope.
I'm not saying this for reasons of courtesy and manners, though I think that counts for something. But it's really for a much more selfish reason: Negativity can make people disengage, and that's overall detrimental to fandom. Which I selfishly care about, as a fan.
Spoilers: fandom is a really fucking emotional thing for most people. Our interests and obsessions are a pretty core part of our identities, and we wouldn't be devoting time and energy to them if we weren't mentally and emotionally engaged. Hearing that someone hates something you love can hurt, even when there is no hurt intended. That's even before we get into the question of fanfic and fanart and vids and other fan creations, and how personal one's art is to most artists. Especially for amateur artists, who aren't getting paid and so the only impetus to share our creations is for emotional validation.
There have been more than a few fic writers who have quit writing because of crit -- because getting crit is really hard even for many professional writers, and people writing for fun may not have the emotional energy to deal with it, or just don't want to, and so they stop, or stop sharing their work publicly. But it's not just direct crit that can do this. If you're writing a trope you love, or a pairing you love, and then you see people talking about how much they dislike that trope or how gross that pairing is, it can make you hesitate to keep writing, or at least hesitate to share your work, knowing you might be inviting crit. Or even just thinking that no one is going to want to read it. (Then, some of us are the opposite and such things inspire us to keep going out of pure spite; but even for me that's something I have to work myself into and it takes its own emotional toll.)
And this hurts, not just the writer, but the fandom as a whole, because someone quitting writing means less fic in the fandom for the rest of us. And even if it's not fic that you like personally, that you'd be happy not to see any more of -- someone else surely would like it, and want more, and do you want to spoil their fun, too?
Likewise, talking about disliking canon can stop discussion, because it can be hard to contradict someone -- especially someone with whom you share a fandom, so there can be that sense of comradery, being in the same community. So if you see a fan friend talking about how X canon thing sucks, rather than argue back that you love that thing, it can be easier to not rock the boat, to not say anything -- but then not feeling comfortable to talk about what you love in a fandom can drain your interest in it, and with it the fandom; and then you drift away, and the fandom shrinks.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't be negative. For one thing, sometimes it's important to do so. Calling out things like racism or toxic behavior can be seen as negative but can also be really crucial for the overall health and safety of a community and the members in it. Pointing out that a fic isn't sufficiently tagged can be a type of criticism (and can hurt a writer) but may help many other fans who could be impacted.
For two, complaining about what we dislike as well as what we like is a big part of fanning for a lot of us -- for me definitely; I enjoy a good hard critical analysis, and I'll be honest, sometimes I take guiltily gleeful pleasure in shredding something I didn't like. And sometimes, too, it feels great to talk about and find out I'm not alone in hating X thing. But I try -- have been trying harder -- to limit how I do it. When I criticize canon, I try to tag/mark it for negativity and squee-harshing, so people who don't want to see it can avoid it. When I criticize fanworks (either a specific fic I don't like, or a trope/ship/etc) I try to ensure it's not personal, and/or to keep it in more private locked channels that won't get back to the writer(s), because that's really all about me and what I like; it's not another fan's fault that I have my preferences, and the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the fun of someone else who is enjoying the fandom as much as I am, if in a different way.
I'm far from great at this -- I've hurt friends on more than one occasion without meaning to because I got too into a fannish debate and didn't realize the feelings I was provoking. I have no doubt that I've discouraged other fans from fanning on and writing things they enjoy, and I'm sorry for that. But I'm trying, and will keep trying -- I've been trying harder especially lately because my current fandom is quite small; just about all of us non-lurkers in it have interacted with each other to some extent, so it makes any interactions more personal than they would be in a larger fandom in which many people don't know each other. I'm not perfect but I'm doing my best. And hopefully my fandoms will be a more encouraging place for it.
tl;dr: make squee, not war?
ETA: this post's original subject was "not-so-vague vague-posting" because I was originally inspired to write it by a mess in my current fandom. My original intent morphed in the writing of it, though, to be more about my own changing feelings about how I interact with the fan communities I'm in, for better or for worse, so I've adjusted the subject to match.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-21 10:04 am (UTC)Haha, I RELATE. XD I mean, honestly, I think it's easier for me to understand exactly what you mean right now because my main fandom (we all know the one) is one in which I have to actively ignore/write around/headcanon out a significant chunk of canon in order to get it to work, because it's either badly written, completely contracts something in another part of canon, is something I genuinely dislike, or it's just like ... I think I get what they're going for there, it's just that it literally DOES NOT come across on the screen, but I plan to write it as if it WAS actively on the screen if they'd had either a better budget or more coherent writers, or both. XDDD
And yet, the parts that I like are incredibly iddy and fun and infinitely rewatchable for me!
So I'm kinda writing the best-parts version that exists in my head and which consists of me end-running around the parts of canon that make my inner writer quietly scream into a pillow. And I sort of ... typically talk about it as if it is that version.
But I also do genuinely enjoy the affectionate mocking thing. Honestly I think that's why I have been so much more successful at getting people into this show than into, say, Agent Carter, which I love so much that I really can't handle criticism of it. It's difficult for me to talk about it with people who are not all the way out to the "squee" end because it's so intensely personal to me that I tend to nope out of conversations that tend to go in an even mildly critical direction. Whereas Iron Fist, and really everything in the general Defenders stable of shows, for me anyway, are just sort of fun to gently mock because they ARE kind of cheesy and ridiculous and not quite all they could be, but I'm also not sure if I'd love them in the same way or find them as easy to talk about if they fell into that "perfect canon, I cannot bear criticism" kind of category. I not only can bear criticism, I am sometimes the first person bringing it. XD But I also have written reams of fanfiction about them and just kind of want to cuddle them like a big silly puppy. Which I kinda get the feeling is how you relate to Guardian, too. (Which I honestly think I WOULD really like; I just haven't been in the right headspace lately for a new show like that!)
no subject
Date: 2019-11-21 02:29 pm (UTC)THIS exactly.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-02 01:07 pm (UTC)And for the shows I tend to consider trashy, I guess the, hmm, gap, between the show and the "real story" is wider? So some of the fun for me is mocking the show, in part for having "errors" in how true it is to the "real story"...and for me, talking about those things as errors just solidifies the "real story" in my mind, makes it something I enjoy all the more, for being better than what we actually see on screen.
--And I think that's partly why I do enjoy my "trash" shows so much, because I have that kind of...control, over them? With the Type A shows that I admire, they cleave (in my mind) closer to the "real story" -- so if they do something that breaks my heart, I have to just accept that that's "what really happened." While as with the trashy shows, if I don't like something -- NOPE, rejected, that's not how it really went; the show just made a mistake, and I can still write and read the "real" version in fic! :P
(...and I realize this all sounds vaguely delusional, but it kind of is how it works in my head? ^^;)
no subject
Date: 2019-12-03 11:04 am (UTC)I think the way I conceptualize it personally is that I'm constantly editing and revising pretty much anything in my head as I watch it. There's really nothing that doesn't require SOME mental editing to get from TV-reality to fictional-reality - for example, even really excellent canons usually have the thing where women wake up and step out of the shower fully made up, and unless you want to come up with some kind of strained bullshit handwave in fic for why women in this reality have tattooed makeup and/or they found a makeup kit in the ruins of the post-apocalyptic bunker, you just handwave it as "fiction reality" and write the version in which they wake up looking like most women do when they wake up.
I think I also don't have too much trouble mentally working around, for example, budget restrictions where it's obvious that some kind of ridiculous effect made out of tinfoil and a 9V battery and hope, in the world of the show, "really" looks much better than the f/x were able to convey. Or the 8 people and a shoelace who obviously WOULD have been an entire town if they'd been able to afford it. Even in shows with really great production effects, they tend not to show things like, say, the characters exercising and practicing for 6 hours a day to have the knife-throwing and acrobatics skills that they would need in order to do their thing at the climax.
I mean, I think even people who don't really think of themselves as doing any of this are doing at least SOME of this because on some level cinema-reality runs on its own set of absurd conventions just the same as theater-reality does.
But I think for me the characterization and actual events of the show are the hardest to work around without going completely AU -- like, I don't have much trouble handwaving some makeup/cardboard-set issues and laughing at them without it breaking my suspension of disbelief, but what I do have trouble actively tossing out the window are actual show events and/or stated canon. And I do like to closely analyze canon and try to pick out the "actual" version of events/characterization as closely as I can. And deviating from that tends to take me into AU territory. But there's also a certain level of "welp, of course that's what it's going to be, because XYZ real reason." So I guess I fall in the middle. But this does make sense to me!