On Keller

[xparrot]

So people can join the discussion - gnine posted a long essay on our problems with Keller's character. Feel free to jump in and agree or disagree as you will!

gnine and I have discussed this at length, and she's covered most of our main points, referencing specific episodes. We're not trying to change anyone's minds about the character; really, we're more trying to offer explanations for people who don't like her but can't figure out why. Reading over the essay and comments, I think the biggest question for me comes down to Why Keller?

Why is Keller the head of medicine on Atlantis, and not another older, more experienced doctor? Why is she sitting with the team in "Doppelganger" when we've never seen anyone else sit with them, not Elizabeth or Carson or Heightmeyer or Lorne? Why is Ronon interested in her after nine years of celibacy, out of all the other women on Atlantis and elsewhere in Pegasus? Why does Rodney say "I love you" to her when we never heard him say it to Katie Brown or Sam or anyone else?

Why are we watching this character, and not some other character?

It's not that I dislike Keller. I just don't understand why we're expected to care about her in particular when the show's barely made an effort to distinguish her from anyone else.

Why is she head of medicine, and not anyone else? Most of the characters on the show are defined by their roles first and foremost, so Keller should be as well. It's not that she's a bad doctor - she's quite competent. But we've never seen any hint that she's better than any other doctor on Atlantis or in the SGC. There's no reason it's her and not someone else; there's no reason why she couldn't be replaced by the IOA tomorrow. Carson dies and leaves behind a huge body of research for people have to follow up on, and none of them seem as good at it as him. Elizabeth dies and they need to bring in Samantha Carter, smartest women in two galaxies, to replace her. (I should also note here that I saw similar problems with Elizabeth as I do with Keller...and I never liked Elizabeth much, either.) What legacy would Keller leave; what does she do, what does she bring to Atlantis (the city or the show) that no one else could?

Why is Rodney head of science & research on Atlantis, and not anyone else?

Because he's the smartest man in two galaxies. We've been told this. A lot. We've also seen him outthink other scientists on multiple occasions. Plus he had years of experience with the SGC.

Why is Sheppard the head of the military and teamleader, and not anyone else?

Because the SGC actively recruited him thanks to his super-gene, and then he shot his commanding officer and was the next highest rank, and being stranded in another galaxy no one could replace him. Then Elizabeth fought to keep him in place once they got back in contact with Earth, because she knew and trusted working with him.

Why is Elizabeth the first head of the expedition, and not anyone else?

Because she was in a position of power in the SGC (thanks to political maneuvering in SG-1) and got control of the project. Also she has unique international diplomacy skills that make her well-suited to heading a multi-national expedition. But mostly it's because she was maneuvered into position; like John, it's as much a matter of circumstance as individual skills.

Why is Sam Carter the second head, and not anyone else?

Because she's the smartest woman in two galaxies, and thanks to ten years on SG-1, has the hero clout to get any position she wants. And she wanted the challenge of Atlantis.

Why is Woolsey the third head, and not anyone else?

Because he's the IOA's established pawn, and they want control.

Why is Carson Beckett the first head of Atlantis medicine, and not anyone else?

Because he's a skilled surgeon and a geneticist, and he has a powerful manifestation of the ATA gene. Carson's gene means that he could have beat many people otherwise more qualified for the original position.

Why is Teyla on the main team, and not anyone else?

Because as the leader of the first people they contacted, she had significant diplomatic influence, and she has more experience with the rest of Pegasus than the other Athosians. Again, Teyla's position is as much a matter of circumstance as skill; she had no competition.

Why is Ronon on the main team, and not anyone else?

Because he can take down Wraith with his bare hands, and John, realizing this, begged and pleaded and whined to Elizabeth until she let him have Ronon on the team.

Why was Ford on the main team, and not anyone else?

We don't know. See also: why Ford never starred in a single episode, why Ford was dropped after first season, and why most of us never liked Ford anywhere near as much as the rest of the cast. We never understood why we were supposed to care about Ford, when it seemed like nearly anyone could do what he did. And for the most part, we didn't care.

Why is Zelenka Rodney's second? Why is Lorne John's second? Why are Chuck and Amelia gate technicians? Why was Heightmeyer the base psychologist?

We don't know - we can guess (Radek is plenty smart; Lorne has the gene and previous experience in SG-1) - but we've never been told. We don't know - and we don't have to care. We've become fond of them over time, depending on how amused we are by their quirks, but they're not developed characters, and the audience is not required to care about a single one of them. There's never been an episode that the major plot depended on caring whether any of them lived or died. If any of them did die, they could easily be replaced without fanfare. They're friends with the main characters, but not best friends; they're not key romantic interests. They're only in episodes erratically; if they were never in another episode again, we'd wonder where they went, but it wouldn't be that surprising, and the show wouldn't need to explain their fate.

Kanaan and Katie Brown are romantic interests, but the audience is again, not intended to bond with them the same as with the major characters. They only relate to a single main character (we only briefly saw Kanaan with anyone but Teyla; we never saw Katie talk to anyone but Rodney) - their purpose is to develop the main character they're involved with, not to be characters in their own right. We are expected to care about what happens to them only insofar as it directly impacts our main characters - we never heard about Katie Brown until she got involved with Rodney, and we'll never hear about her again, now that she's out of Rodney's life. Even Jeannie, much as I love her, doesn't have any place on Atlantis except in direct relation to Rodney; she's not used otherwise.

There are single-episode characters we are on occasion intended to bond with in their own right, that the episodes hinge on us caring about them in addition to the leads. Kiryk the Runner in "Tracker" is one such - these characters are hit-or-miss anyway, and still, steps are often taken to establish why we should be caring about this person. Kiryk is special from the beginning because he's a Runner; we know right there that he must be unusually skilled. We are intended to care about him in part because he's there to give us insight on Ronon, information on Runners. Also, if we don't care about him, he's not there next week; we only need to care once. It's a decent risk for a show to take.

If Keller were a secondary character, I would not have a problem with her. With Janet Frasier on SG-1, it was never specified how she got her position - but the show never required us to care about Janet as much as the main characters (or maybe it did? It's been years since I've watched SG-1. If there were Janet-focused episodes, I've quite forgotten them...) She was never as important to the main characters as they were to each other; we didn't see them risking their lives specifically to save her. Nor did we have episodes that the plot depended on whether she survived (save her last episode.) In fact, in several episodes Janet is an antagonistic character; we're meant to side with the main characters against her. And she wasn't romantically involved with two of the main cast.

I wouldn't mind if Keller got an episode once in a while; I wouldn't even mind if she had a minor background affair with one of the main characters. I mind that she's had three episodes center around her this season thus far while Teyla and Ronon and Rodney have each had one-and-a-half, and John's had none. I mind that both Ronon and Rodney are showing so much interest in her - more than any other woman before, in Ronon's case. I mind because Keller's not just a random blueshirt extra; she's Atlantis's head of medicine, and she's in the opening credits, and I don't understand why she deserves this much attention.

And I especially mind because I have a hard time not seeing it as sexist. I can't help but see it as the writers believing that Jewel Staite is answer enough. I seriously doubt the writers would've added, say, Jared Padalecki to the cast, replacing Carson as the new head doctor Gene Keller, given him no specific defined skills, had both Sam and Teyla fall in love with him, and never once explained why he came to Atlantis to begin with. But with Keller, she's a cute girl, so what other reason does she need to be there?

ETA: Much more here - I had an epiphany about why these questions matter to me, and in lieu of posting another essay, I put my latest rant in the comments.

I also want to thank the exceptionally patient horridporrid, who is a Keller fan. If you also like the character, I definitely recommend that you check out her essays and episode reviews - I disagree on most points concerning Keller, but they're a well-written, considered, positive take on the char.

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Please forgive an excessively long and somewhat indirect response - you sparked an epiphany in me, and because I swore I wasn't going to post another essay, I'm going to go into it here.

(And really, thank you for your patience in all these discussions - I've been a character-defender before - Friendshipper & I had a few long conversations about Rose in Doctor Who - and I know it can get frustrating when the other person refuses to see the light, but I actually think I'm getting something out of these arguments, however circular they might seem...I'm working closer to the heart of the matter, every time we go around! And you've been unfailingly polite through all of it, I really appreciate it!)

And now I will show my appreciation by drowning you in words. Um. Sorry! (To save your inbox - and your sanity - I'm posting the following comments as replies to this comment, so if you want to read them, just check out this post. And if you don't want to read them - homg I do not blame you if you are exhausted of this, I just need to get these thoughts on screen and out of my head!)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Why does this need to be hammered home, is my question?

This is a key question, for me. Because the difference between Keller and everyone else is that Keller not only is lacking a good reason that she's the head of medicine on Atlantis - but she has very good reasons why she should NOT be in that position. She has two huge strikes against her that have never been addressed.

Here's what I've been struggling with. I understand your point. This:

For the first time in StarGate, we have a girl filling the Rodney role. She came to Atlantis because she had a thinky skill (medicine) and all of a sudden she's being thrown into these action/adventures she's not prepared for.

This has been bugging the hell out of me ever since you brought it up, because in theory, I absolutely agree. I love Rodney because I love characters who evolve and develop. This, the Keller you see, is a character I'd be interested in seeing. Except I keep harping on the lack of abilities in the Keller I see, without being able to pinpoint what was bothering me so much. I've finally figured it out.

This kind of character - the inexperienced and unconfident but strong-willed young person coming into their own - does not work as a senior medical doctor.

Such a storyline works great for a regular blueshirt. An inexperienced young scientist - let's call him Daniel Jackson - is recruited into a top secret project because of his language skills. He studies esoteric hieroglyphics, so esoteric that only a handful of people in the world can understand them anymore, and he's developed a crazy theory about them being related to aliens. He's got no physical skills to speak of and precious few people skills; he's got cute floppy hair, but that's all he's got going for him. Not exactly the ideal candidate for expeditions off-world. Except for the hieroglyphics. Which only he knows. So the project has no choice but to recruit him, giving him a key position, and he struggles to live up to the role.

All the blueshirts on Atlantis potentially have a similar story - they're experts in their chosen field (even if that field's never specified), probably a field esoteric enough that only a handful of people even know it exists. So even if they're young or inexperienced or reluctant to go off-world, the SGC recruited them for their unique expertise.

But Keller's not a blueshirt - she's a medical doctor. She's a good doctor, perhaps a great one; she's a skilled surgeon. But there are a lot of skilled surgeons in the world. What sets her above all of them; why was she selected/recruited by the SGC?

If she were simply a very competent doctor, I could believe it's just combination of luck and ability, and being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people. Janet Frasier was very skilled, but not necessarily a genius, at least not until the SGC forced her to become one on the fly.

But Keller has two major strikes against her from the start, and what goes unexplained is how she overcame these strikes. And this is why I am so "show me the money," demanding that she be not just good, but amazingly good, because otherwise, I can't see how she got the position.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

One, she's inexperienced - she's very young for a doctor, much less a senior doctor - and she doesn't have much off-world training. I know I keep going on about this, but it's important. Inexperienced is not a trait you want in your doctor. No one wants to be treated by a first-year medical student. Natural intelligence and problem solving abilities, and extensive education, all are important; but a lot of medicine is learning on the job. That's why doctors serve internships and residencies before they're given authority over other doctors. No one is a brilliant doctor from the get-go. Even Doogie Howser had to learn.

A lot of the scientists on Atlantis are inexperienced at what they do - even Rodney, smart as he is, learns plenty on the job. But that's because they don't have a choice. No one knows what they're doing; no one can teach them. They are all juniors, because there are no seniors; the Ancients being long since dead, they're always breaking new ground.

It's different for the doctors. On Atlantis, medical issues do arise that are totally new, that no Earth doctor would be equipped to handle, however experienced. But a lot of the problems are standard, basic medicine and surgery. Dealing with alien parasites is one thing, but a lot of being a doctor on Atlantis is emergency triage and treating injuries. It's not all exploding tumors - and besides you want someone who is experienced with basic medicine before you throw the impossible stuff at them. Letting a junior doctor take the position of head of medicine is inexcusable. There is no way Keller could possibly have the experience she needs to do her job competently; it doesn't matter if she's a super-genius. When she tells Elizabeth she's unsuited for the job, she is absolutely one hundred percent correct, and the correct answer is not to fluff up her ego, but to find someone else for the position!

Keller's learning to be a better doctor, learning how to handle herself off-world. But it's insane that she would being doing this as on-the-job training, without supervision, when peoples' lives are at stake! Hell, she shouldn't even be going off-world without training - we've seen inexperienced scientists in the field before, but it can easily be argued that they have unique, required skills, and also they're not usually being expected to save lives; their training isn't risking anything but their own lives. But basic field medicine is not a unique skill; the SGC should be able to find many, many people with both medical training and physical skills. (Yes, Carson was sent off-world to do field medicine on a few occasions. That always annoyed me, too.)

If Keller were a talented junior doctor, under Carson or another head of medicine, it would be understandable. But she's the senior doctor; she's not learning from anyone. Apparently at twenty-six she knows all there is to know about modern Earth medicine.

So Keller's inexperienced. I might be able to get over that - unbelievably young geniuses are an old TV trope, see Doogie Howser. And Julian Bashir. And Simon Tam. I could find my way around it except for the second point - Keller didn't want the job.

This is where I get truly baffled. Doogie Howser was ambitious - he was a doctor so young because he really wanted to be, argued to be, and always had to prove himself (and he wasn't the hospital director either, that I recall). In ST: DS9, Julian Bashir is young for a doctor - but again, he fought his way up the ranks, he desperately wanted the position on the station, and he also had an established reputation as a particularly gifted genius. Ditto for Simon Tam.

In her introduction in "First Strike," Keller is pleading with Elizabeth to find a replacement for her. She doesn't want to be the head of medicine; from what she says - wanting to go back to being a "regular doctor" - it sounds like she was a junior doctor, doing an extremely unusual residency.

Why was she promoted, against her will, to head of medicine? This is the question the show has never answered, and it's the one that's the biggest sticking point for me, the one that makes it impossible for me to accept the character.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

As I said, Keller wasn't the only doctor on Atlantis after Carson. There's the woman in "Sunday," the man attempting to treat Ronon in "Adrift," Dr. Biro, a whole roomful of doctors brainstorming with Carson in "Conversion." In "Intruder" Carson talks about hiring more staff. Pretty much all these doctors are older than Keller, more experienced. More experienced on Atlantis, too, as Keller has been there less than a year when she was promoted, according to what Rodney says in "This Mortal Coil."

Apparently none of them wanted, or could handle, the job. Why? The show's never attempted to explain. Did they all quit when Carson died? Did they all have their own scientific projects to do? Why did Keller have to step up; why did she have no competition?

This matters. Atlantis is a competitive place. We know people have gotten turned down from going to Atlantis - in "Submersion" they mention a scientist who didn't get the job. Rodney McKay can't get the job he wants - head of Atlantis - despite his years of experience.

And it especially matters because Keller's a doctor - because unlike scifi scientists with their magical abilities, she's got a skill-set that's far from unique.

In the pilot episode, Sheppard's not especially interested in coming, but Elizabeth tells O'Neill that they need Sheppard, because no one else can operate Ancient technology naturally. The audience doesn't question it, because do you know anyone who can operate Ancient technology naturally, or at all? I don't! But it would be ludicrous for Elizabeth to say that they need Keller because no one else can do surgery. There are hundreds of thousands of surgeons in the world. Why can't they recruit someone who wants the job?

I can't think of any character in any show, scifi or other, who is both unsuited for a key senior position, and is put into that position against their wishes, except in extreme, inescapable circumstances. Often such circumstances will be a central plot arc for the character. I especially can't think of any young doctor who is promoted against their will when there are any other options. I think there's a reason such a character doesn't exist elsewhere - because they don't make sense. No one wants a doctor who doesn't feel like they're up to the job. For all Elizabeth makes an effort to cheer Keller up, saying she has faith in Jeninfer - seriously? Who would ever want an inexperienced, unconfident doctor, unless they absolutely had to?

Keller's lack of self-confidence isn't just a cute character trait. Unlike Rodney's pessimism, which doesn't hamper his abilities as a scientist, a lack of confidence is a major flaw in a doctor. There's a reason why you almost never see (on TV or in real life) an unconfident doctor. A doctor's bedside manner is an important skill, and authoritative confidence is one of a doctor's greatest assets - you can't reassure a patient unless you yourself are self-assured. That's a major reason why Janet Frasier was convincing as head of SGC medicine - because she was always completely confident, no matter how crazy the situation got. Keller's confidence in medical situations comes and goes, but that it wavers at all is another point against her.

If this were still season 1, I could believe that Keller was forced into the position. They had limited personnel and no way to get replacements; they might not have another option besides a junior doctor. In ST: Voyager, the Emergency Medical Hologram (our beloved Robert Picardo) was the ship's only option, and he did have to struggle with learning medicine on the fly. And it sounds like there will be a similar character on the new SGU.

From Keller's dialogue with Elizabeth, this is how she got the position. But such a storyline is nonsensical for Keller on Atlantis. At the end of season 3, the Midway gate bridge is active, Atlantis is in regular contact with the SGC. Elizabeth says the IOA is taking a while to pick replacement doctors, but why weren't there any more qualified doctors on Atlantis to begin with? And why does the IOA never bother send a replacement, especially after the whole Elizabeth & the Replicators snafu?

Part 4 of 4 OMGWTFBBQ

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Why, when Atlantis is otherwise a competitive environment, and the other characters all have had to prove themselves in, does Keller get and keep a position that she is definitely not qualified for, and that she didn't want to begin with? That's the question I can't get around. I can't figure her character out because I keep getting stuck on this.

What drives me nuts is that they could have answered it pretty easily. They could have given Keller some esoteric skill or talent - maybe she did her thesis on alien healing devices (the SGC's internship program?) or maybe she had the ATA gene and was gifted with Ancient medical technology. Or else they could've given some other reason - hell, they could've made her Beckett's niece, so he was pushing her through the program (on SG-1, Dr. Lam replaces Frasier; she's pretty young, but she's also the daughter of General Landry. He insists she got the job through merit, but it's obvious why she would've come to the attention of the SGC to begin with. She also appears to want the job.) Some obvious reason why the SGC would recruit her, and push her through the ranks faster than she was comfortable with.

Or else they could've made Keller ambitious. If she were really eager to rise in the ranks, to attain a senior position, then she's young, she's very smart, she probably could have fought her way up. I frankly do not understand why they didn't just have her reassuring Elizabeth that she was going to be great. That she got the position because there was a space and she leapt to fill it before someone else could.

Instead, the writers gave her two big obstacles: inexperience, and lack of ambition. But they gave her no specific qualities to counter these massive road-blocks - either of which should be enough to keep her from getting the job - instead dealing with them by utterly ignoring them. They're character traits but not actual flaws, because they don't ever interfere with her life or her career; Keller doesn't have to struggle to overcome them, because they're just handwaved aside.

Part 1 of 2 (I hope!), re: 1-4 :D

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Aww, thank you! :) I've been enjoying myself, I think because the conversation hasn't been entirely circular. And sparking epiphanies is always good. :D So diving eagerly in...
(Ooh, wait, a little note: I'm heading out of town tomorrow and I'm not sure about computer access until the end of the weekend, so if my end of the convo suddenly stops, I'm not sulking! *g*)
Okay, now diving right in...

An inexperienced young scientist - let's call him Daniel Jackson [...] Not exactly the ideal candidate for expeditions off-world. Except for the hieroglyphics. Which only he knows.
[...]
But Keller's not a blueshirt - she's a medical doctor.

This is such an incredibly valid point. I enjoyed the first StarGate movie for exactly what you're pointing out here: Utterly out of his depth Daniel had the highly trained military guys totally dependent on him because of his geeky skill. It was awesome (and how the movie was recced to me in the first place).

And I agree, as a mere doctor, Jennifer is not fully filling Daniel's role. That would be Rodney. Jennifer is closer to the Rodney/Daniel type (which is what I'm excited about), but she's not at their level. Her "thinky power" just isn't that esoteric and cool. But I don't think she was created to be at Rodney's level. Not as a character (Staite's more supportive than star, like Picardo), and not within the show (Jennifer is not, and won't be, on John's off-world team).

All of which means, I'm not as bothered with how Jennifer got into the city in the first place. I take it as writ that she's qualified, because she's there. And I understand that she needs to be Head of Medicine, because otherwise, we'd never see her, we'd see her boss. (Which actually, is what happened. Jennifer was there before Carson died, but we never saw her, because why would we?) So I'm already primed to suspend some disbelief. Jennifer doesn't have to prove herself worthy, she just needs to show she's not unworthy. Which may seem like a little thing, but I think it's probably a nutshelling of how we're both approaching the character.

Inexperienced is not a trait you want in your doctor. No one wants to be treated by a first-year medical student.
[...]
Keller's learning to be a better doctor...

Ah, see that's where I disagree. Not the point about inexperience, but the idea that this is what Jennifer is, that she's still becoming a good, or great even, doctor. I think Jennifer is experienced, and I think the show has shown us that.

When the big medical crisis hit in Adrift, sudden and large amount of wounded, Jennifer shined. She came onto the scene, directed and corrected her staff, and got the most injured victim into surgery as quickly as possible. She successfully handled a tricky brain surgery, one with at least one moment of complication. She informed John of Elizabeth's chances fully and compassionately. There was nothing in that episode that showed Jennifer unsure of her doctoring skills and everything to show she had the right stuff and the right amount of training.

Is it an impossibility, given her age? Again, I'm willing to suspend disbelief, helped along by the show telling us she had an accelerated education (how fast did she get through med school and into interning? as fast as possible), and not giving us her exact age (late twenties or early thirties, whatever works best).

Part 2 of 2, re: 1-4 :D

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Why was she promoted, against her will, to head of medicine?
[...]
Apparently none of them wanted, or could handle, the job. Why?
[...]
This matters. Atlantis is a competitive place."

One, it wasn't against her will, Jennifer volunteered. She didn't expect to stay in the job, but she did volunteer in the first place. And once she handled her first crisis, Jennifer has never since (iirc) expressed a desire to step down or a sense that she's in over her head.

Two, I get the sense that Atlantis, once you get to Atlantis, isn't that competitive. Not for job positions, anyway. For the most part, within the civilian community, everyone's a scholar and a specialist. I get that from Rodney never worrying about someone trying to take his position, or any mentions of bickering amongst the underlings for a seniority position (either with Rodney or with Carson).

The way I picture it (this is all very subjective, of course, but I think it goes towards our different reactions to the character, so I'm sharing *g*) is that all of the scientists have their particular little niche of study, and they're kind of it. There's no one they're fighting or competing with because Atlantis just isn't that big. So when Carson suddenly died, it wasn't so much a promotion everyone was scrambling for and eager to get, it was extra work. Work that would take time away from their precious, precious field of study.

So I actually see Atlantis as a place that's more likely to give someone as young as Jennifer a chance to lead. (All predicated, of course, on her not being that inexperienced an actual doctor. Which would go towards her getting hired on in the first place.) And the IOA would probably be pleased with it, because Jennifer doesn't have the political clout to rock any boats.

Keller's lack of self-confidence isn't just a cute character trait.
[...]
A doctor's bedside manner is an important skill, and authoritative confidence is one of a doctor's greatest assets...

Jennifer is nervous (well, was nervous -- that was more last season's trait) about speaking up about non-doctor stuff. When she actually had her doctor hat on, she gave clear orders, made confident decisions, and spoke to either her patient or their next of kin with both compassion but also clarity and completeness. Has she been pushed out of her comfort zone? Yes! And I've enjoyed watching it because she thrives out there. But one place that's not been outside her comfort zone is the infirmary.

They could have given Keller some esoteric skill or talent...
[...]
Or else they could've made Keller ambitious.

If Jennifer had an esoteric skill, she'd have either been pushed up to Rodney's level, or been such an oddity they would have had a hard time working her into episodes. Jennifer's skill has to be general so that she can fill any "doctor" requirement, if it was too specific she couldn't both fry alien tech and do brain surgery.

If Jennifer were ambitious career-wise , Atlantis would only be a jumping off point. (I really do see Atlantis as the sort of red-headed step-child of the SGC.) She'd be doing as much as possible to get the IOA's attention and get herself back to headquarters where the real power is.

I do think Jennifer is ambitious, though, when it comes to pushing herself, making herself stronger. For one, she came to Atlantis in the first place (and you're right, she had to have applied for it, made an effort). For another, she volunteered to fill Carson's role when she saw it was needed. She was incredibly nervous about doing so (hence the lack of sleep and asking Elizabeth to find a replacement sooner rather than later), but she did it. For another, after a supremely crap experience for her first off-world trip, Jennifer took up sparring lessons and got herself back out there.

Actually, I'd say one of her more consistent character traits has been her grit. We can see when she's terrified about doing something, and every single time, she goes ahead and does it. And, iirc, she generally does it very, very well. And that's enough for me. :)

Re: Part 2 of 2, re: 1-4 :D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(Let's hope I can keep this equally down! ^^;)

Ah, see that's where I disagree. Not the point about inexperience, but the idea that this is what Jennifer is, that she's still becoming a good, or great even, doctor. I think Jennifer is experienced, and I think the show has shown us that.

When the big medical crisis hit in Adrift, sudden and large amount of wounded, Jennifer shined.

Ahhh, that's part of the divide - I wasn't sure in "Adrift" whether it was Keller doing what she'd done before, or Keller doing something totally new, directing the triage and such. And she did it well, I'm not arguing that - my point is that on a place like Atlantis, there is no way anyone should be handling a crisis like that for their first time without an older, more experienced doctor standing by.

If we're watching Rodney install a ZPM in a hurry, he can't have supervision - it's the first time he's done it, but it's the first time anyone would. And I imagine he does supervise such training. But triage is something any city ER doctor would have to face. It should not be Keller's first time.

And that's the problem with her conversation with Elizabeth - because it's worded like it is her first time, like Keller feels unprepared to handle something like this. I'm not disputing that she came through; I'm disputing that she would be forced to come through when she didn't feel ready. No ER doctor in an expensive hospital on Earth would be allowed in a position of authority until they felt ready for it, and they'd have senior doctors standing by, too.

Maybe she's actually in her 30s and does have previous experience running a medical facility. I wish they'd just have said this somewhere - because with Carson, he's old enough that you can assume he has; but with Keller, she doesn't look old enough, and she never has talked like she has significant experience. She's doing good at the job, but it's set up, the way she looks and talks, is like she's learning on the job, and that's something no doctor should ever have to do without supervision. That it's never been addressed is bad writing, I can't help but believe.

I get that from Rodney never worrying about someone trying to take his position, or any mentions of bickering amongst the underlings for a seniority position (either with Rodney or with Carson).

Which is where my own personal fanon starts contradicting with canon - having some experience with academic environments, I always had the impression such bickering and jostling does take place, we just don't see it because we almost never see the underlings saying anything. We've never seen it (save Rodney hoping to get Elizabeth's job at the beginning of "Reunion"),
I just was assuming it was there. Keller is the first outright contradiction we've had to that fanon, and that's what bothers me. It's not her character, so much as that the way they've written her story denies my fanon (and makes me want to cry bad writing, because seriously, unambitious doctors and scientists? ain't no such thing!)

If Jennifer had an esoteric skill, she'd have either been pushed up to Rodney's level, or been such an oddity they would have had a hard time working her into episodes.

Ah, you misunderstand - I meant a skill in addition to her general doctorly duties, as Carson had the ATA gene and his genetic research.

I want this is partly because doctor characters are handicapped in scifi - since they do real-life stuff a lot, they're just not as cool by nature - and to counter this, to give Carson storylines, they made him a scientist as well. They didn't give Keller a counter, and it bugs me.

(I really do see Atlantis as the sort of red-headed step-child of the SGC.)

Yes, that's how it's being portrayed - and that's what's bothering me! (Especially since in SG-1 they bitch about how Atlantis is getting all the funding and such...) Far from being a competitive environment, Atlantis is like Alaska, where you get banished if you screw up...except that Dr. Porter wanted to come...ah, I don't know! Except I know it frustrates me! XP

Re: Part 2 of 2, re: 1-4 :D

[darkgloom.livejournal.com]

I hope I'm not butting in! I thought I didn't have anymore to say... but now that I'm meta-ing, I can't stop. :O

Which is where my own personal fanon starts contradicting with canon - having some experience with academic environments, I always had the impression such bickering and jostling does take place, we just don't see it because we almost never see the underlings saying anything. We've never seen it (save Rodney hoping to get Elizabeth's job at the beginning of "Reunion"),

Wouldn't competition be detrimental to the purpose of Atlantis? Especially since they're pretty much in a war right now? I've heard about some of the competitive nature of academic environments (my friend has told me horror stories about the "feud" between her lab and the medical lab even though the medical lab had more funding and more prestige), but I think Atlantis is a special case. For one thing, a seniority position would mean greater responsibility and probably less time with their own individual research and possibly more time off-world in danger.

Also, considering that most of the scientists can't reveal the content of their research or their discoveries (or publish any papers and hold any conferences) then... I can't really see the normal type of academic competition on Atlantis? Usually, it's always competing for publications (being the first to publish in a new area of research/discovery/technique) and funding, which can be linked to publishing papers on that new area of research/discovery/technique)...


Far from being a competitive environment, Atlantis is like Alaska, where you get banished if you screw up...except that Dr. Porter wanted to come...ah, I don't know! Except I know it frustrates me! XP

I think in my head, the ones who come to Atlantis are the specialists in their field, but not only that, they're kind of misfits, the ones who don't fit in. They're passionate about their field to forgo the prestige and accreditation that is usually so important in the academic environments they would have been working on and they love researching on Atlantis enough to take the risk in the unknown.


They didn't give Keller a counter, and it bugs me.

Ah, this explains why I only was neutral-okay with Keller in the beginning! I didn't dislike her, but she seemed too bland for me to really like her. So she hovered somewhere in the background while most of my focus was on Rodney. ;)

Re: Part 2 of 2, re: 1-4 :D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Also, considering that most of the scientists can't reveal the content of their research or their discoveries (or publish any papers and hold any conferences) then... I can't really see the normal type of academic competition on Atlantis? Usually, it's always competing for publications (being the first to publish in a new area of research/discovery/technique) and funding, which can be linked to publishing papers on that new area of research/discovery/technique)...

Hmm, good point. Will have to consider this!

I think in my head, the ones who come to Atlantis are the specialists in their field, but not only that, they're kind of misfits, the ones who don't fit in. They're passionate about their field to forgo the prestige and accreditation that is usually so important in the academic environments they would have been working on and they love researching on Atlantis enough to take the risk in the unknown.

...Which just leads me back to why Keller, because she doesn't have a specialty that we've seen. So I don't understand why she came to Atlantis. I just don't get it! Every explanation I can come up with contradicts itself. If she's good and experienced at administration, then maybe she came to be the head of medicine - except she says right in her first scene that she's not the right person for the job.

I think my problem with Keller's backstory is that I simply can't figure out what it is. All the other characters, I can put together a backstory that makes some sense to me, from what we've been given. Thanks to some failure of creativity or other, I can't figure out one for Keller, and that's why I keep asking about it so insistently.

--um, apologies for the brusque answers, I'm not at all annoyed with you, I'm just a little burned out like I said, and riding the squee-high of the recent ep, so not up to meta ^^;;;