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So people can join the discussion -
gnine posted a long essay on our problems with Keller's character. Feel free to jump in and agree or disagree as you will!
gnine and I have discussed this at length, and she's covered most of our main points, referencing specific episodes. We're not trying to change anyone's minds about the character; really, we're more trying to offer explanations for people who don't like her but can't figure out why. Reading over the essay and comments, I think the biggest question for me comes down to Why Keller?
Why is Keller the head of medicine on Atlantis, and not another older, more experienced doctor? Why is she sitting with the team in "Doppelganger" when we've never seen anyone else sit with them, not Elizabeth or Carson or Heightmeyer or Lorne? Why is Ronon interested in her after nine years of celibacy, out of all the other women on Atlantis and elsewhere in Pegasus? Why does Rodney say "I love you" to her when we never heard him say it to Katie Brown or Sam or anyone else?
Why are we watching this character, and not some other character?
It's not that I dislike Keller. I just don't understand why we're expected to care about her in particular when the show's barely made an effort to distinguish her from anyone else.
Why is she head of medicine, and not anyone else? Most of the characters on the show are defined by their roles first and foremost, so Keller should be as well. It's not that she's a bad doctor - she's quite competent. But we've never seen any hint that she's better than any other doctor on Atlantis or in the SGC. There's no reason it's her and not someone else; there's no reason why she couldn't be replaced by the IOA tomorrow. Carson dies and leaves behind a huge body of research for people have to follow up on, and none of them seem as good at it as him. Elizabeth dies and they need to bring in Samantha Carter, smartest women in two galaxies, to replace her. (I should also note here that I saw similar problems with Elizabeth as I do with Keller...and I never liked Elizabeth much, either.) What legacy would Keller leave; what does she do, what does she bring to Atlantis (the city or the show) that no one else could?
Why is Rodney head of science & research on Atlantis, and not anyone else?
Because he's the smartest man in two galaxies. We've been told this. A lot. We've also seen him outthink other scientists on multiple occasions. Plus he had years of experience with the SGC.
Why is Sheppard the head of the military and teamleader, and not anyone else?
Because the SGC actively recruited him thanks to his super-gene, and then he shot his commanding officer and was the next highest rank, and being stranded in another galaxy no one could replace him. Then Elizabeth fought to keep him in place once they got back in contact with Earth, because she knew and trusted working with him.
Why is Elizabeth the first head of the expedition, and not anyone else?
Because she was in a position of power in the SGC (thanks to political maneuvering in SG-1) and got control of the project. Also she has unique international diplomacy skills that make her well-suited to heading a multi-national expedition. But mostly it's because she was maneuvered into position; like John, it's as much a matter of circumstance as individual skills.
Why is Sam Carter the second head, and not anyone else?
Because she's the smartest woman in two galaxies, and thanks to ten years on SG-1, has the hero clout to get any position she wants. And she wanted the challenge of Atlantis.
Why is Woolsey the third head, and not anyone else?
Because he's the IOA's established pawn, and they want control.
Why is Carson Beckett the first head of Atlantis medicine, and not anyone else?
Because he's a skilled surgeon and a geneticist, and he has a powerful manifestation of the ATA gene. Carson's gene means that he could have beat many people otherwise more qualified for the original position.
Why is Teyla on the main team, and not anyone else?
Because as the leader of the first people they contacted, she had significant diplomatic influence, and she has more experience with the rest of Pegasus than the other Athosians. Again, Teyla's position is as much a matter of circumstance as skill; she had no competition.
Why is Ronon on the main team, and not anyone else?
Because he can take down Wraith with his bare hands, and John, realizing this, begged and pleaded and whined to Elizabeth until she let him have Ronon on the team.
Why was Ford on the main team, and not anyone else?
We don't know. See also: why Ford never starred in a single episode, why Ford was dropped after first season, and why most of us never liked Ford anywhere near as much as the rest of the cast. We never understood why we were supposed to care about Ford, when it seemed like nearly anyone could do what he did. And for the most part, we didn't care.
Why is Zelenka Rodney's second? Why is Lorne John's second? Why are Chuck and Amelia gate technicians? Why was Heightmeyer the base psychologist?
We don't know - we can guess (Radek is plenty smart; Lorne has the gene and previous experience in SG-1) - but we've never been told. We don't know - and we don't have to care. We've become fond of them over time, depending on how amused we are by their quirks, but they're not developed characters, and the audience is not required to care about a single one of them. There's never been an episode that the major plot depended on caring whether any of them lived or died. If any of them did die, they could easily be replaced without fanfare. They're friends with the main characters, but not best friends; they're not key romantic interests. They're only in episodes erratically; if they were never in another episode again, we'd wonder where they went, but it wouldn't be that surprising, and the show wouldn't need to explain their fate.
Kanaan and Katie Brown are romantic interests, but the audience is again, not intended to bond with them the same as with the major characters. They only relate to a single main character (we only briefly saw Kanaan with anyone but Teyla; we never saw Katie talk to anyone but Rodney) - their purpose is to develop the main character they're involved with, not to be characters in their own right. We are expected to care about what happens to them only insofar as it directly impacts our main characters - we never heard about Katie Brown until she got involved with Rodney, and we'll never hear about her again, now that she's out of Rodney's life. Even Jeannie, much as I love her, doesn't have any place on Atlantis except in direct relation to Rodney; she's not used otherwise.
There are single-episode characters we are on occasion intended to bond with in their own right, that the episodes hinge on us caring about them in addition to the leads. Kiryk the Runner in "Tracker" is one such - these characters are hit-or-miss anyway, and still, steps are often taken to establish why we should be caring about this person. Kiryk is special from the beginning because he's a Runner; we know right there that he must be unusually skilled. We are intended to care about him in part because he's there to give us insight on Ronon, information on Runners. Also, if we don't care about him, he's not there next week; we only need to care once. It's a decent risk for a show to take.
If Keller were a secondary character, I would not have a problem with her. With Janet Frasier on SG-1, it was never specified how she got her position - but the show never required us to care about Janet as much as the main characters (or maybe it did? It's been years since I've watched SG-1. If there were Janet-focused episodes, I've quite forgotten them...) She was never as important to the main characters as they were to each other; we didn't see them risking their lives specifically to save her. Nor did we have episodes that the plot depended on whether she survived (save her last episode.) In fact, in several episodes Janet is an antagonistic character; we're meant to side with the main characters against her. And she wasn't romantically involved with two of the main cast.
I wouldn't mind if Keller got an episode once in a while; I wouldn't even mind if she had a minor background affair with one of the main characters. I mind that she's had three episodes center around her this season thus far while Teyla and Ronon and Rodney have each had one-and-a-half, and John's had none. I mind that both Ronon and Rodney are showing so much interest in her - more than any other woman before, in Ronon's case. I mind because Keller's not just a random blueshirt extra; she's Atlantis's head of medicine, and she's in the opening credits, and I don't understand why she deserves this much attention.
And I especially mind because I have a hard time not seeing it as sexist. I can't help but see it as the writers believing that Jewel Staite is answer enough. I seriously doubt the writers would've added, say, Jared Padalecki to the cast, replacing Carson as the new head doctor Gene Keller, given him no specific defined skills, had both Sam and Teyla fall in love with him, and never once explained why he came to Atlantis to begin with. But with Keller, she's a cute girl, so what other reason does she need to be there?
ETA: Much more here - I had an epiphany about why these questions matter to me, and in lieu of posting another essay, I put my latest rant in the comments.
I also want to thank the exceptionally patient
horridporrid, who is a Keller fan. If you also like the character, I definitely recommend that you check out her essays and episode reviews - I disagree on most points concerning Keller, but they're a well-written, considered, positive take on the char.
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Why is Keller the head of medicine on Atlantis, and not another older, more experienced doctor? Why is she sitting with the team in "Doppelganger" when we've never seen anyone else sit with them, not Elizabeth or Carson or Heightmeyer or Lorne? Why is Ronon interested in her after nine years of celibacy, out of all the other women on Atlantis and elsewhere in Pegasus? Why does Rodney say "I love you" to her when we never heard him say it to Katie Brown or Sam or anyone else?
Why are we watching this character, and not some other character?
It's not that I dislike Keller. I just don't understand why we're expected to care about her in particular when the show's barely made an effort to distinguish her from anyone else.
Why is she head of medicine, and not anyone else? Most of the characters on the show are defined by their roles first and foremost, so Keller should be as well. It's not that she's a bad doctor - she's quite competent. But we've never seen any hint that she's better than any other doctor on Atlantis or in the SGC. There's no reason it's her and not someone else; there's no reason why she couldn't be replaced by the IOA tomorrow. Carson dies and leaves behind a huge body of research for people have to follow up on, and none of them seem as good at it as him. Elizabeth dies and they need to bring in Samantha Carter, smartest women in two galaxies, to replace her. (I should also note here that I saw similar problems with Elizabeth as I do with Keller...and I never liked Elizabeth much, either.) What legacy would Keller leave; what does she do, what does she bring to Atlantis (the city or the show) that no one else could?
Why is Rodney head of science & research on Atlantis, and not anyone else?
Because he's the smartest man in two galaxies. We've been told this. A lot. We've also seen him outthink other scientists on multiple occasions. Plus he had years of experience with the SGC.
Why is Sheppard the head of the military and teamleader, and not anyone else?
Because the SGC actively recruited him thanks to his super-gene, and then he shot his commanding officer and was the next highest rank, and being stranded in another galaxy no one could replace him. Then Elizabeth fought to keep him in place once they got back in contact with Earth, because she knew and trusted working with him.
Why is Elizabeth the first head of the expedition, and not anyone else?
Because she was in a position of power in the SGC (thanks to political maneuvering in SG-1) and got control of the project. Also she has unique international diplomacy skills that make her well-suited to heading a multi-national expedition. But mostly it's because she was maneuvered into position; like John, it's as much a matter of circumstance as individual skills.
Why is Sam Carter the second head, and not anyone else?
Because she's the smartest woman in two galaxies, and thanks to ten years on SG-1, has the hero clout to get any position she wants. And she wanted the challenge of Atlantis.
Why is Woolsey the third head, and not anyone else?
Because he's the IOA's established pawn, and they want control.
Why is Carson Beckett the first head of Atlantis medicine, and not anyone else?
Because he's a skilled surgeon and a geneticist, and he has a powerful manifestation of the ATA gene. Carson's gene means that he could have beat many people otherwise more qualified for the original position.
Why is Teyla on the main team, and not anyone else?
Because as the leader of the first people they contacted, she had significant diplomatic influence, and she has more experience with the rest of Pegasus than the other Athosians. Again, Teyla's position is as much a matter of circumstance as skill; she had no competition.
Why is Ronon on the main team, and not anyone else?
Because he can take down Wraith with his bare hands, and John, realizing this, begged and pleaded and whined to Elizabeth until she let him have Ronon on the team.
Why was Ford on the main team, and not anyone else?
We don't know. See also: why Ford never starred in a single episode, why Ford was dropped after first season, and why most of us never liked Ford anywhere near as much as the rest of the cast. We never understood why we were supposed to care about Ford, when it seemed like nearly anyone could do what he did. And for the most part, we didn't care.
Why is Zelenka Rodney's second? Why is Lorne John's second? Why are Chuck and Amelia gate technicians? Why was Heightmeyer the base psychologist?
We don't know - we can guess (Radek is plenty smart; Lorne has the gene and previous experience in SG-1) - but we've never been told. We don't know - and we don't have to care. We've become fond of them over time, depending on how amused we are by their quirks, but they're not developed characters, and the audience is not required to care about a single one of them. There's never been an episode that the major plot depended on caring whether any of them lived or died. If any of them did die, they could easily be replaced without fanfare. They're friends with the main characters, but not best friends; they're not key romantic interests. They're only in episodes erratically; if they were never in another episode again, we'd wonder where they went, but it wouldn't be that surprising, and the show wouldn't need to explain their fate.
Kanaan and Katie Brown are romantic interests, but the audience is again, not intended to bond with them the same as with the major characters. They only relate to a single main character (we only briefly saw Kanaan with anyone but Teyla; we never saw Katie talk to anyone but Rodney) - their purpose is to develop the main character they're involved with, not to be characters in their own right. We are expected to care about what happens to them only insofar as it directly impacts our main characters - we never heard about Katie Brown until she got involved with Rodney, and we'll never hear about her again, now that she's out of Rodney's life. Even Jeannie, much as I love her, doesn't have any place on Atlantis except in direct relation to Rodney; she's not used otherwise.
There are single-episode characters we are on occasion intended to bond with in their own right, that the episodes hinge on us caring about them in addition to the leads. Kiryk the Runner in "Tracker" is one such - these characters are hit-or-miss anyway, and still, steps are often taken to establish why we should be caring about this person. Kiryk is special from the beginning because he's a Runner; we know right there that he must be unusually skilled. We are intended to care about him in part because he's there to give us insight on Ronon, information on Runners. Also, if we don't care about him, he's not there next week; we only need to care once. It's a decent risk for a show to take.
If Keller were a secondary character, I would not have a problem with her. With Janet Frasier on SG-1, it was never specified how she got her position - but the show never required us to care about Janet as much as the main characters (or maybe it did? It's been years since I've watched SG-1. If there were Janet-focused episodes, I've quite forgotten them...) She was never as important to the main characters as they were to each other; we didn't see them risking their lives specifically to save her. Nor did we have episodes that the plot depended on whether she survived (save her last episode.) In fact, in several episodes Janet is an antagonistic character; we're meant to side with the main characters against her. And she wasn't romantically involved with two of the main cast.
I wouldn't mind if Keller got an episode once in a while; I wouldn't even mind if she had a minor background affair with one of the main characters. I mind that she's had three episodes center around her this season thus far while Teyla and Ronon and Rodney have each had one-and-a-half, and John's had none. I mind that both Ronon and Rodney are showing so much interest in her - more than any other woman before, in Ronon's case. I mind because Keller's not just a random blueshirt extra; she's Atlantis's head of medicine, and she's in the opening credits, and I don't understand why she deserves this much attention.
And I especially mind because I have a hard time not seeing it as sexist. I can't help but see it as the writers believing that Jewel Staite is answer enough. I seriously doubt the writers would've added, say, Jared Padalecki to the cast, replacing Carson as the new head doctor Gene Keller, given him no specific defined skills, had both Sam and Teyla fall in love with him, and never once explained why he came to Atlantis to begin with. But with Keller, she's a cute girl, so what other reason does she need to be there?
ETA: Much more here - I had an epiphany about why these questions matter to me, and in lieu of posting another essay, I put my latest rant in the comments.
I also want to thank the exceptionally patient
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Date: 2008-09-27 03:07 am (UTC)I do agree that it's a personal choice, and very subject to personal interpretation. However, I do think we know enough about Rodney to know how he would react, and I thought it was completely in character. Over and over again we've seen that Rodney McKay does not handle imminent death well. At all. Yeah, he gathers himself together and does the brave thing (usually), but he's intensely unhappy about it. I think Rodney, as opposed to Ronon who wants to face death headlong, would prefer not to see it coming. And so I just can't imagine him reacting to this any other way. Of course, yes, that is colored by my own personal perspective. I don't know myself if I would turn this down if given the choice. But I don't know that I would be too happy about it being done to me. If that makes any sense.
I do wonder why the heck Ronon didn't mention the shrine sooner, so they could just ask Rodney what his wishes were while he was capable of deciding. It's to provide dramatic tension, but it doesn't make much sense. They wouldn't have had to go immediately - Rodney could have asked that they take him once he'd passed a certain point. Or else demanded that they don't take him. But Ronon doesn't bring it up until Rodney's too far gone to make a choice. Odd.
Oh absolutely. It's a storytelling problem, but if we're going to stay with an in-show perspective, just why did Ronon wait so long? It does make one wonder. And that's probably a path I shouldn't go down, because it makes me like Ronon less, so I'll stop there.
Huh - when they were arguing with Woolsey, I didn't think they were planning on taking Rodney to the shrine that very minute - I assumed they were still going to wait as long as possible.
That's a possibility I suppose, but from the way Ronon and Teyla started to charge out of Woolsey's office, I assumed they were planning to go right then. John's the one who slowed them down and reminded them that they needed to plan it out a little before charging into a Wraith stronghold, and then Keller said that they weren't going anywhere without talking to Rodney. It all seemed like an immediate thing to me. *shrugs*
I also think that Ronon & Teyla were resigned to Rodney dying - they're from Pegasus, they know Second Childhood, and a quick, dignified death is just what they want for themselves, so they were trying to honor Rodney the best they could.
Oh yes, I completely agree with that. But they were thinking about what they would want for themselves and not what Rodney would want, and John, who of all of them should have IMO been thinking about what Rodney wanted, just gets swept along with them - his objection is not "Rodney wouldn't want this" - it's "we need a plan if we're going to do this". I love John, and John and Rodney, but I have a hard time with him for not standing up to Ronon and Teyla over this. Of all of them, Rodney trusted John the most during the episode. John told Rodney he wasn't giving up on him - I don't understand why he let Ronon and Teyla sway him. :( I'm having a hard time not seeing it as a betrayal on John's part, in a way.
I don't think John ever accepted the "quick death" part. John didn't accept that Rodney was dying when he was lying on his deathbed in "Tao" - John's not good with acceptance! I am convinced that John was thinking one day with Rodney as himself was one day that Rodney could help them figure out how to save himself, and was not thinking beyond that...which is how it worked out, in the end.
See, I would love to believe that, I really would, because I loved the closeness between John and Rodney during the episode, and I don't want it to be soured by this. But John's behavior in the cave doesn't bear that out, IMO. Not until Keller figures out what's going on does John get motivated to save him. Until then, he's trying to coax Rodney into sitting down and relaxing and enjoying his last meal, not pushing him into figuring out the problem.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-27 04:12 am (UTC)But, yes - completely valid viewpoints either way; the episode doesn't make it clear.
The one point I must argue is this:
See, I would love to believe that, I really would, because I loved the closeness between John and Rodney during the episode, and I don't want it to be soured by this. But John's behavior in the cave doesn't bear that out, IMO. Not until Keller figures out what's going on does John get motivated to save him. Until then, he's trying to coax Rodney into sitting down and relaxing and enjoying his last meal, not pushing him into figuring out the problem.
I saw John as motivated from the start. When they walk into the cave, Keller notices the radiation, and John's first thought is "Maybe we can ask Rodney in a minute" - he's counting on getting Rodney's brain back in the action. Once he's back, Rodney asks why John wants to say goodbye now and John doesn't answer. Ronon & Teyla talk about dying with honor and dignity; John doesn't chime in, except to agree that he thought this was a good idea (and I think he means the getting Rodney back; he is not thinking about the "dying" part at all.) Ronon tells him to stop worrying about the energy readings and eat, but John is letting Rodney do his thing - as he does, when he knows Rodney is sufficiently motivated with a problem. And as soon as Keller realizes what's happening to the parasite, John's first question is, "What does it mean for us?" and he jumps on the chance to save Rodney.
It's very like John's behavior in "Tao" - for most of the episode he's pretty laid back, not pushing Rodney on the ascension meditation until they get down to the wire. I don't see it as John not caring, but that John is really, really good at denial.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-27 05:08 am (UTC)I'm sorry - I really wish I could see it the way you do, but I can't. I do appreciate the discussion though! :)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-27 05:30 am (UTC)...Umm, I know this sounds utterly contradictory, but this is how I think John's head works. It's a scary, strange place, inside the mind of a Sheppard! (I'm tempted to try to fic this scene from John's POV, maybe see if it would make more sense from the internal perspective?)
But we've never once seen John just accept a teammate's death before, under any circumstances; I cannot imagine that he would've started now.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-27 05:55 am (UTC)And yeah, it doesn't make sense that John would accept a teammate's death. A lot of things about this episode don't make sense to me, frankly. As you can probably tell, I have a real love/hate relationship with this episode. I can't remember the last time an episode simultaneously made me so squeeful and so angry at the same time. :)