shipping kills puppies!

[xparrot]

I've seen a couple discussions about the negative turn SGA fandom has taken, re: McKeller, people, mostly Keller fans (or at least not anti-Keller fans) who are feeling actively driven from the fandom by aggressive character/pairing hate. They feel this is a recent trend, and I concur; while SGA had its share of past wank, I think it was one of the lower-conflict fandoms for its size. And if that's changed now, then I blame shipping. Or rather, canon shipping.

Every fandom I know of that has these battles, has these levels of anger and resentment between fans, is a fandom with canon ships. Witness Smallville, or HP. Ships going canon wreak havoc on a fandom. Nothing embitters your average fan as much as a ship that sinks their own, and an embittered fan can be eager to share their hate, wants the solidarity of all of fandom telling TPTB that they're wrong, wants all of fandom together seeking change. Even killing a character doesn't cause the kind of conflict that shipping does...

There are other things that get fans' backs up, but the majority of fen are shippers, and ships are often why they fan. There are exceptions, there are other types of fans - and other types of shippers - but in modern Western media fandom, the majority of fans (slash, het, even many gen fen) are in it for particular relationships. Mess with those relationships in canon, and you get fandom meltdown.

(I think there's a reason that a lot of the old fan shows, the big ones, were series that never had canon ships, never had any romances that lasted more than a single episode. Star Trek, Starsky & Hutch, The Sentinel, all those old episodic shows that never really progressed the character relationships - that never changed them, never pulled the figurative rug out from under fannish feet. The only series I know of with low-conflict canon ships are ships which were introduced in the first season, that the fandom grew up around, and even in those there's often little interaction between contrasting shippers. I also suspect it's a major reason why new female characters are viewed with such suspicion, because while male characters are often introduced for plot purposes, nine times out of ten a new female character is going to mean new canon ships.)

I don't blame shippers. I'm a shipper myself; I wouldn't fan without my ships. I need my OTPs to fic. And I strive to be reasonable and fair to all my fellow fans, but I still have been known to go utterly psycho batshit when I feel my OTP is "threatened," so it doesn't surprise me to see other otherwise reasonable types lose it over shipping. It's frustrating since the fandom used to be cooler about it - but then the fandom didn't have canon ships before. A fandom with canon ships has ship wars. It just seems to be a fact of fandom; it's why I tended to avoid Who fandom, or Avatar fandom, why I often keep wary distance from anime fandoms.

My OTPs aren't canon, generally (at least not in my fic fandoms, my active "Type B" fandoms - and I tend to avoid main fandom for my Type As, because I'd just as soon not get drawn into shipping wars.) But I don't need my OTPs to be canon to be satisfied, don't need my interpretation of the characters validated above all other interpretations. As long as they're never actually denied, I'm good. The more open-ended canon is, the more freedom there is for all fans, all different shippers, to peacefully co-exist, and I like it that way.

If I sound like I'm saying I'd rather not have canon ships in my ficcing fandoms - yeah, I am. Bring on the subtext and the UST, and leave the consummations to the fanfic. Maybe it's unrealistic and maybe it's boring, but I don't care. It's more peaceful that way XP

Comments

[sholio]

I think you have a good point about growing ship wars, and the fandom being mellower in the beginning. But I think that what you haven't seen, because you haven't been in the fandom as long as I have, is that there have been cycles of this sort of thing all along; it just hasn't gotten this bad.

There has always been character hate and ship-warring in the fandom. There was some pretty massive Elizabeth hate in seasons 1/2, and ship wars between the John/Rodney, John/Elizabeth and John/Teyla factions during the same time. This had mostly settled down when I got into fandom, but then there was a massive upswell of character hate (directed mostly towards Carter and Keller) towards the end of season three. I had almost forgotten how bad it really was until I went back and re-read a Carter fic from that era just recently -- I would consider the author's tone towards Carter ambiguous at best (I don't think she comes off very well), but the comments are all gushing praise at the author for not demonizing her and treating her fairly. That's how bad it was -- if you were a Carter fan, the best you could hope for was a story that didn't utterly ream your favorite character.

During the season 3/4 gap, I locked comments on a few posts much as I did towards the end of season five, because it was pretty much impossible to post anything about the show without an influx of OH NOES CARTER KELLER THE SHOW IS RUINED sky-is-falling comments. There were anecdotal stories about Tapping and Staite being booed at conventions. Just a whole lot of free-floating unpleasantness, like now.

But the initial firestorm of anger and misery ended pretty quickly (at least in my segments of fandom) because the disgruntled fans got fed up with the show and the fandom, and left. The Carson fans left; ditto for many of the Carter fans; the Elizabeth and John/Elizabeth fans either left, or retreated to a few ShepWeir-specific communities that denied season 4+ canon. I'm still friends with a few people who (with varying amounts of bitterness) jumped ship at that time.

There were also lesser firestorms. Katie Brown was widely loathed. So was Heightmeyer; so was Caldwell and, of course, everyone's whipping boy, Kavanagh. And that's not even to touch the rounds of race-related meta ...

So it's not new. I think one of the only reasons why it's so much bigger this time is because John/Rodney fandom is affected to a greater degree. Let's face it, the McShep fans have always been the bulk of the fandom, and earlier ship wars and fannish misery about the show were kind of like planetoids colliding around the giant body of McShep fandom -- it just couldn't get through to the bulk of fandom, which stayed in its happy place. This time, canon itself threw a monkey wrench in McKay/Sheppard fandom, and that meant that suddenly the John/Rodney fans were in the same place that the John/Elizabeth fans had been at the end of season 3, or the John/Teyla fans with Kanaan. And because they had so much more pull, their unhappiness took the whole tone of the fandom down like a lead balloon.

I'm not blaming McKay/Sheppard fandom or saying that the only disgruntled fans are McShep fans, or that all McShep fans are unhappy. But I think that's a very large factor in why it's become so overwhelming this time, when it didn't before -- because McKay/Sheppard fandom, due to its monolithic size, was a stabilizing element on the overall fandom (with some assistance from the equally stable and -- relative to the rest of gen fandom -- equally large John-Rodney segment of gen fans). No matter what was happening elsewhere in fandom or canon, the majority of fans were happy anyway. Now it's having the opposite effect -- its overwhelming size has made it a destabilizing element.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I think you're very right about the McShep side of the fandom being a stabilizing influence. And now it's been destabilized, and is tearing the fandom asunder (well, not that dramatic, except in certain communities.)

I think, too, that your perspective is a little different, too, because you were in the McShep side yourself for most of your fanning. You weren't a slasher, but you enjoyed the friendship - same as the majority of SGA gen fans, as well as a lot of slash McSheppers who also liked the gen relationship in the canon. If you'd been into, say, John/Elizabeth from the beginning, you probably always would've seen the fandom as more conflicted and contentious. But McShep fanning is shielding - no one would casually diss the pairing in comments, because of the backlash of defense.

Move outside of that shell, and it gets trickier. Especially when you're in the middle of it, when you've established yourself. One of the overriding principles of fandom is that Fans Do Not Take Well To Change. This is not true of all fans - but the majority will almost always react to alterations in the status quo. In the canon, obviously - but also in the fandom; it's hard not to see the disagreement of a fan friend as a sort of betrayal. This goes both ways - I suspect some of your fans, your regular readers, were upset when you stopped writing John-Rodney; likewise you were upset when the people you used to broadly agree with re: canon & fandom were suddenly completely opposed to you, drawing lines in the sand that you didn't think even should matter.

So, yeah. I don't think SGA is different from other fandoms; I don't think what's going on now is different from what goes on in most other fandoms. I wish it wasn't, I could wish fandom as a whole were gentler - but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm not really involved in the fandom much myself nowadays because I prefer to get out before something is ruined for me (I've met many a fan who was so terribly burned by a once-beloved that they couldn't ever return to it happily; your experience of having your eyes opened to the awfulness of it is far from the first I've read) - I am sorry it was ruined or at least damaged for you, and I am so sorry for what role I played in that. But...well, yeah. All good things must come to an end, I suppose?

(In all honesty, the main, utterly selfish reason that I'm so annoyed by what's happening is that I have that McShep story I'm finishing, and, feedback whore that I am, I want there to be readers when I complete it! dangit!! If only I'd gotten the damn thing done six months ago...)

[sholio]

I think, too, that your perspective is a little different, too, because you were in the McShep side yourself for most of your fanning. You weren't a slasher, but you enjoyed the friendship - same as the majority of SGA gen fans, as well as a lot of slash McSheppers who also liked the gen relationship in the canon. If you'd been into, say, John/Elizabeth from the beginning, you probably always would've seen the fandom as more conflicted and contentious.

*nods* Yeah, you're right, and now that I look back on my early days in the fandom, before I got settled in and got used to the status quo, I remember being a lot more aware of that -- I think the fandom did tend to be a bit more contentious or at least to have more obvious factions before both canon and fanon made McShep their overwhelming pairing of choice (on the gen and the slash/ship sides, both). It used to be a more diverse fandom than it became; it shed a lot of people who weren't interested in John/Rodney over the first year or so that I was in it. And I do remember being aware that I just happened to hit not only its popularity surge, but its popular characters as well.

I actually feel better and more well-balanced after bitching my head off, both here and in my own journal. XD What makes this show weird for me is that I want it back so bad. I've definitely fallen out of love with shows before -- quite a lot of them -- but it wasn't usually so, hmm, sudden and virulent and influenced by outside forces; most of the situations I can think of were either a slow falling out of love as the show changed out from under me (e.g. Supernatural), or some sort of canon event that made it impossible for me to go on enjoying the show (Forever Knight, Serenity). The fact that I can still enjoy (and even write) some of the fic, despite feeling almost vicious towards the show at times, makes me think that it's possible for me to get it back, if I want to. And most of the time, I want to, except it feels like getting back onto a roller coaster, and I wonder if it might be better for my peace of mind not to ...

Regarding the loss of the fandom, though, I don't actually get the impression that most people are leaving, at least not yet -- and that's another thing that makes me want to stay in, because the people I've become friends with, over the last couple of years, haven't scattered for greener pastures yet. A lot of people seem to be in a kind of "wait and see" holding pattern, or else so depressed over cancellation and/or the state of the fandom (or both) that they don't feel like writing anything, but are still around in the background. And I feel like, if I can just work through my own fannish issues, I can help hold the fandom together in these critical months when everyone is figuring out what they're going to do. If it's worth holding it together ...

I'm really surprised by how invested I've become. I've never wanted to stay in a fandom this long, let alone managed to do so! But it's given me a lot of happiness, and I think I still have stories to tell; I don't want to leave it, or for it to leave me.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Regarding the loss of the fandom, though, I don't actually get the impression that most people are leaving, at least not yet

I think that might be truer on the gen side - on the slash side it feels like the entire fandom en masse has jumped ship to Merlin! (I exaggerate; half the fandom has, and the other half is busy bemoaning the fact that the first half has jumped XP) (And then, my own perspective is skewed, because I'm not paying as much attention to the SGA posts on my flist as I used to.)

I've actually always wanted a fandom "home," to settle into a circle and stay for a good long while, make a name for myself (...I sekkritly want to be a BNF. Yes, it's pathetic ^^;;;) I just am too flighty to manage it...

But for what it's worth - I really feel SGA fandom is worth holding together. There's a lot of brilliance in it (omg, SGA has spoiled me rotten; it's tough to go to other fandoms, when there's not as much fic, and not of as high quality!), and a lot of opportunities and potential for more. It's a bigger universe than most shows have, and it's got the perfect balance of foundation and flaws that inspire fandom. (Ideally? I'd like it to be Star Trek - the whole kit&kaboodle, a sequel series a couple decades later, Atlantis reimagined (...by better writers XPPP) Because I think there are stories yet to be told, and I'd like the fandom to live long enough to tell them...)

...in the meantime, have you ever seen Man From UNCLE? I think you'd like it, the leads are very snarky and the affection and worry and such is downplayed in that delicious makes-you-work-for-it way...

[sholio]

I guess part of being out of the fannish loop right now (and especially avoiding McKay/Sheppard fandom) is that I didn't even know it had gotten that bad ... on my own f'list, a couple of former SGA slash people have jumped to Merlin, but most of them seem to be staying put. Of course, the slash component of my f'list doesn't tend to represent the mainstream of slash fandom, in general.

... does it strike you that slash fans, as a group, are more fickle than gen fans, and prone to jump between fandoms? I know that I've always been rather fickle myself, but most of the gen fans that I know tend to get into a fandom and stay there, while I see a lot of slash fans moving en masse between different shows. I don't want to make sweeping statements like that without evidence, though; it just seems like there is this tendency for slash fandom to pack up and move as a group every couple of years, whenever a new show comes along that has a slash pairing that happens to "click" with the fannish zeitgeist.

But for what it's worth - I really feel SGA fandom is worth holding together. There's a lot of brilliance in it (omg, SGA has spoiled me rotten; it's tough to go to other fandoms, when there's not as much fic, and not of as high quality!), and a lot of opportunities and potential for more.

I know! *wails* I think so too! That's what's tearing me up right now, because I think I might have found "the one" for me, if the fandom will just stay together enough to make it worth staying here -- and if I can get back in touch with the part of myself that wants to write for it.

... and wow, do I ever hear you on the "spoiled rotten"; even during my fannish vacation, and even though I'm officially not reading John/Rodney right now (except when I do XD), I still read a few McShep AUs (though in some cases I find-replaced the names ... I KNOW, I AM A CRAZY FAN). I feel as if being in this fandom has made me a noticeably better writer. There's just so much good stuff out there. I want to stick around! It really helps that nothing else has come along that pushes my fan buttons in quite the same way. I think I'd be into Wiseguy more if there was more to read, but I still don't see it being a fandom that I'd be comfortable doing a lot of writing in. Despite my fannish butterfly ways, I've only ever had three fandoms that were big writing fandoms for me -- Trigun, DBZ and SGA, and despite the differences, in some ways they were a lot alike. I need a big canvas to play on; I need a setting that allows me to do a lot of worldbuilding, and a big cast (or potentially big; in Trigun I kept creating OCs right and left, but it was an epic enough setting I could get away with it XD), and characters that have enough complexity and flaws and affection for each other to make me want to write them, but aren't explored in canon to the point where there's nothing left to explore. I need something that allows me to do a combination of huge, epic scenes, and small, character-centric scenes ... or both at once. I don't see anything on the horizon that's likely to hit me the same way.

I would love to see SGA be another Star Trek ... or, heck, even another Due South or Sentinel, with an active (if somewhat less active) fandom that's still cranking along a decade or more after the show's demise.

And despite my heavily conflicted feelings on the series right now, I think if they make a movie, I'll be there with bells on. *g* When I watched the first SG1 movie, "Ark", I just had a big stupid grin on my face through the first half of the movie, because it was just such a delight to see those characters again -- I didn't even realize I'd missed them so much until they showed up on my screen again, big as life and just as snarky!

...in the meantime, have you ever seen Man From UNCLE?

No, I haven't. (AAAAA DUCKY AAAAA) I'm not sure if I want to get into another show like that right now, though; I've been resisting Leverage as well (though I have a feeling my resistance may crumble soon; this is one that my f'list has been getting into in a major way), because I don't want another mediocre show with cute character dynamics so soon after the old one. But my willpower is flimsy...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

does it strike you that slash fans, as a group, are more fickle than gen fans, and prone to jump between fandoms?

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it like that before - but yes, I think you're right. There are exceptions (Cesperanza calls herself a "fandom great turtle" in description of her glacial pace of changing fandoms) but by and large it's true. I wonder why...I'm inclined to think it's less because of individual fan temperament, and more because of the prevalence of slash fandoms. Gen fans stick around fandoms longer because there are fewer large gen fandoms - there's fewer places to decamp to. Also, maybe, there's fewer gen BNFs? I think Merlin's fandom doubled overnight when astolat moved to it; there's no gen fans with that kind of sway (though you'd probably bring a significant population to any fandom you moved to and started ficcing for regularly!)

I need a big canvas to play on; I need a setting that allows me to do a lot of worldbuilding, and a big cast

Yes, yes, this, and the rest! Worldbuilding - and the freedom of a universe with pretty much infinite possibility - is very inspiring. And I didn't realize it until recently, but while I am an OTPer much more than you, I still need a larger cast to play with; I like my OTPs in context with other close relationships. It's why I tend to go for team shows, rather than the single partnership deals; why even as I OTPed Ban/Ginji I wrote so much Ban-Shido interaction, and OTPed Gojyo/Hakkai while loving to write Gojyo-Sanzo...and SGA is very satisfying on that end.

I am going to love having an SGA movie, if/when they ever make one. By then I'll be distant enough to just roll my eyes at whatever I don't like and squee at the rest. (Actually I find myself squeeing every time I rewatch old eps, even; and in a few more months, when I'm not so raw, I'll probably be able to roll my eyes at the things that annoy me now...)

I've been watching Leverage - it's cute but not fannish for me, and certain plotlines have been irritating us (I don't know about the fandom, as no one on my flist talks about it, but among Gnine & Naye, anyway...) The two leads chars and their angst & romance are ehh; the three supporting are LOVE, but don't get enough play...

MUNCLE is just fun! Er, once you adjust to the proclivities of mid-60s TV (the f/x and fight scenes are fabulously bad, and as it's a show about an international organization, they travel 'round the world, leading to much "..." and WTFing about cultural sensitivity. Though their hearts were in the right place, I think...)

Plus there's Ducky! Which is. Um. Yeah, it takes some getting used to CRUSHING LIKE A MAD THING on baby-Ducky! But...Illya's so adorable! He's a tiny blond snark machine (with just a touch of stone-cold gentleman killer) and he and Napoleon have a marvelous partnership. Like the ep Illya gets in trouble (he gets out of it himself, mostly) and Napoleon's looking for him - at the end they're fighting the baddies and Napoleon comes to Illya's assistance at a critical juncture. He's in a radiation suit, though, so Illya doesn't recognize him, and with the badguy down starts to say, "Whoever you are, my friend, I should like to thank you," and then Napoleon takes off his helmet, and Illya double-takes and finishes, "--I should've known who it was when you tripped over your own feet." And Napoleon just looks at Illya's Laurence-of-Arabia-style robes (don't ask) and goes, "Gee, I wish I had a dress like that."

So, yeah, they're that kind of partnership. Which, really, is far too much fun!

[sholio]

I think Merlin's fandom doubled overnight when astolat moved to it; there's no gen fans with that kind of sway (though you'd probably bring a significant population to any fandom you moved to and started ficcing for regularly!)

Hee, I had actually noticed that astolat's move into Merlin fandom seemed to correspond with the fact that suddenly I was hearing about Merlin everywhere! I think you over-estimate my influence, although I must admit that one reason why I wanted to write more Wiseguy was in the hopes of maybe dragging a few people into it with me. (If only it was possible to find all of the EPISODES. I'm not used to wanting a show and not being able to get it! Usually it's more a matter of choosing between download or DVD ... or, at the very least, just hunting through torrent sites and ep comms until something turns up. I'm not used to the show simply not being available anywhere, in any form!)

So, yeah, they're that kind of partnership. Which, really, is far too much fun!

It does sound fun! I think I'm pretty far from needing another show to watch right now, though, at least that sort of show -- I have enough Scrubs to last me for months, and we stopped watching Due South when I went to Ithaca in December and haven't resumed, which means I have a whole 'nother Ray of that one to go through! And I, um, might be downloading Leverage right now. (WHAT? I have no willpower!)

I think that time and distance will help a lot with SGA ... kind of like it did for me with SG1, which I left with no intention of ever watching again, but time healed that wound for the most part (even though I'm not deeply ficcish about the show ... and it's tended to suffer from bleedover of my SGA angst lately). I think most of the things that are upsetting me in the fandom right now wouldn't even really be affecting me if the wounds weren't still so fresh. Hmm ... the thought just occurred to me that it might even be worth taking a look at some of my old fandoms in the meantime, to fill that fan-spot while I wait for SGA fandom to settle down a bit. I wonder what Invisible Man fandom is up to these days, if anything? I still have an unfinished h/c fic lying around for that one ...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've actually found Wiseguy (s2 anyway) on bittorrent, though it's been difficult to get hold of, seeds are hard to come by (I've managed to get the first arc, am working on the others now...)

We rewatched I-man a couple years ago and enjoyed the heck out of it - it's fun to go back to things sometimes!

[copracat]

I think Merlin's fandom doubled overnight when [info]astolat moved to it;

This is not true, you know. astolat's presence didn't make Idol fandom huge or any of the other small fandoms she's been in recently. Merlin fandom is slash fan fannip and I've been watching it grow on my flist for a while. Fanlore has some figures from November showing how big it was already, long before astolat - or I think seperis or rageprufrock or any of the old BNF sentinelians or smallvillians showed a public interest.

bbc_merlin's bookmarks on delicious was up to 2700 links, mostly stories and meta, by the time astolat published her yuletide Merlin story on 25 Dec. And it only started keeping links on 18 November. We haven't yet doubled that figure, two months later. But close!

Just in the interest of historical accuracy. BNF's aren't always late to the party, just sometimes. :)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay - I'm an outside observer on Merlin; I enjoy the show but haven't been much interested in fic or fandom. My flist was buzzing about Merlin for months but only exploded since Astolat started posting, and as everyone was reccing her fics first it felt like she was a major force. So maybe in certain quadrants she was an influence, if not the majority.

I don't think BNFs can completely create fandoms (as you say, Astolat couldn't make Idol big, though I think she did increase it?) but they do help draw attention to those series with the ideal factors for a major fandom. If that distinction makes sense? They don't plant the seed, but they water it...

[copracat]

it just seems like there is this tendency for slash fandom to pack up and move as a group every couple of years

You are not wrong. Somewhere I have a timeline! While there's plenty of slash fans who find their one true fannish love and stick with it, there's a very large number of people (couple of thousand or more?) who pick up and move regularly, not always to the same fandom, but the move is a given. Some of us have been talking about how the next big thing has been quite long in coming, longer than usual, and the mobile slash fans have been, I think, under some stress at being in place (many in SGA) in one fandom for too long. It's not natural for we fannish butterflies to have the same main fandom forever.

We don't move as one group, though. Merlin is unusual in that it has reunited fans who've been in different fandoms for some time. Smallville was like that; it's not surprising Merlin is the NBT, given that it has been so closely modelled on Smallville.

And in two/three years we'll split again, most likely.

[sholio]

Ah, thanks for the info! :D I'm admittedly a bit of an outsider to slash fandom (I dabble in it, and have friends in it, but I'm not really part of it) but that had been my general impression; I get the feeling that there are quite a lot of people for whom fandom itself is their fandom -- not that they aren't into the individual shows and characters that they fan on, but they tend to move on regularly. (I actually used to be much more that way, as far as the moving on, though I tended to bounce through microfandoms rather than hitting the big ones -- it's really unusual for me to either fan on a show as big as SGA, or to have stuck in one fandom as long as I have with it -- but anyway, I can understand the moving impulse even if I don't seem to have it anymore.)

And it does make sense to me that it would be uncomfortable for someone who's used to moving regularly (mobile fans, I like that :D ) to get stuck in one place, just as monofannish people don't like to be moved.