shipping kills puppies!

[xparrot]

I've seen a couple discussions about the negative turn SGA fandom has taken, re: McKeller, people, mostly Keller fans (or at least not anti-Keller fans) who are feeling actively driven from the fandom by aggressive character/pairing hate. They feel this is a recent trend, and I concur; while SGA had its share of past wank, I think it was one of the lower-conflict fandoms for its size. And if that's changed now, then I blame shipping. Or rather, canon shipping.

Every fandom I know of that has these battles, has these levels of anger and resentment between fans, is a fandom with canon ships. Witness Smallville, or HP. Ships going canon wreak havoc on a fandom. Nothing embitters your average fan as much as a ship that sinks their own, and an embittered fan can be eager to share their hate, wants the solidarity of all of fandom telling TPTB that they're wrong, wants all of fandom together seeking change. Even killing a character doesn't cause the kind of conflict that shipping does...

There are other things that get fans' backs up, but the majority of fen are shippers, and ships are often why they fan. There are exceptions, there are other types of fans - and other types of shippers - but in modern Western media fandom, the majority of fans (slash, het, even many gen fen) are in it for particular relationships. Mess with those relationships in canon, and you get fandom meltdown.

(I think there's a reason that a lot of the old fan shows, the big ones, were series that never had canon ships, never had any romances that lasted more than a single episode. Star Trek, Starsky & Hutch, The Sentinel, all those old episodic shows that never really progressed the character relationships - that never changed them, never pulled the figurative rug out from under fannish feet. The only series I know of with low-conflict canon ships are ships which were introduced in the first season, that the fandom grew up around, and even in those there's often little interaction between contrasting shippers. I also suspect it's a major reason why new female characters are viewed with such suspicion, because while male characters are often introduced for plot purposes, nine times out of ten a new female character is going to mean new canon ships.)

I don't blame shippers. I'm a shipper myself; I wouldn't fan without my ships. I need my OTPs to fic. And I strive to be reasonable and fair to all my fellow fans, but I still have been known to go utterly psycho batshit when I feel my OTP is "threatened," so it doesn't surprise me to see other otherwise reasonable types lose it over shipping. It's frustrating since the fandom used to be cooler about it - but then the fandom didn't have canon ships before. A fandom with canon ships has ship wars. It just seems to be a fact of fandom; it's why I tended to avoid Who fandom, or Avatar fandom, why I often keep wary distance from anime fandoms.

My OTPs aren't canon, generally (at least not in my fic fandoms, my active "Type B" fandoms - and I tend to avoid main fandom for my Type As, because I'd just as soon not get drawn into shipping wars.) But I don't need my OTPs to be canon to be satisfied, don't need my interpretation of the characters validated above all other interpretations. As long as they're never actually denied, I'm good. The more open-ended canon is, the more freedom there is for all fans, all different shippers, to peacefully co-exist, and I like it that way.

If I sound like I'm saying I'd rather not have canon ships in my ficcing fandoms - yeah, I am. Bring on the subtext and the UST, and leave the consummations to the fanfic. Maybe it's unrealistic and maybe it's boring, but I don't care. It's more peaceful that way XP

Comments

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

I think you're absolutely right, and it does not bode well for the future of Merlin fandom IMHO. Arthurian legend is *all about* the ship wars.

And kittens too!

[greyias.livejournal.com]

It really is rather mild compared to other fandoms, if it weren't I probably would have high-tailed it at the first sign of crazy. Of course, I'm already drifting a little. I've felt a little... hrm, I don't know how to put it, other than I don't really feel free to talk about the show in all aspects like I used to. It's still a very, very tense time right now. I feel like everyone's waiting for the next round of wank to explode -- including me *g*

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

...while male characters are often introduced for plot purposes, nine times out of ten a new female character is going to mean new canon ships.

That's a really interesting observation -- I hadn't consciously thought of it before, but now I think about, I think it's sadly the case that there's an awful lot of truth in this.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I'm lucky in that I don't really pay that much attention to the wanking going on - except in one instance where I felt an author was unduly attacked and it pissed me off.

As for Keller, there's a lot to be dissatisfied about this character besides the canon ship. Much like Carson, she was a character who should have remained recurring - appearing only when it added to the overall plot - who was given too much face time and shoved in where it made no sense. Add in the awkward, unbelievable canon ship with Rodney, and you have a character that is going to cause much aggravation among the fen, especially shippers/slashers.

It's unfortunate that TPTB decided to throw this stupid relationship in our faces. It's unfortunate that TPTB decided that they were in love with Jewell Staite and wanted to turn the show from a Team show into the Keller show. It's unfortunate that I'm now glad the show was canceled since I don't want to see what else TPTB would have done to my show.

I ignore any story that doesn't fit my particular taste. I wish other people would do the same and stop bitching about what other people write.

[tex.livejournal.com]

If I sound like I'm saying I'd rather not have canon ships in my ficcing fandoms - yeah, I am. Bring on the subtext and the UST, and leave the consummations to the fanfic.

Please to be signing me up for that team. This is the post of WIN.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Mmm. Very wise. Interesting observation about female characters often being introduced to add romantic tension. It's wince-worthy and true.

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

I've definitely spoken out about hating McKay/Keller and really not being impressed by the character of Keller herself, but I've tried to confine it to thoughtful commentary in TWoP forums and reasonably measured LJ conversations (such as a previous posting and comments of yours). I really don't get attacking people (other than TPTB, heh) for liking or disliking characters or ships -- what's the point? I mean, even if I don't like McKay/Keller, I can appreciate a well-written fanfic that includes or is even about that. I can also just click away.

I feel as though I do know of a case in which canon shipping has worked well, but of course nothing comes to mind. (Mal/Inara, maybe, though that certainly wasn't a settled, easy relationship -- which might be why it worked for me. Maybe Adama/Roslin?) But even if there is, I'm sure someone out there disagrees about that very example. I mean, there are Kavanaugh fans out there, you know? I didn't think Ginny Weasley was that awful, but I didn't see much chemistry between her and Harry, either; frankly, I didn't much care one way or the other and wasn't sure why so many people seemed to. Pretty much the only thing that will get me worked up is a canon ship done badly.

But I do see the appeal of canon works that just avoid the question and leave any pairings up to the fan. That also leaves room for exploration of other types of relationship. I mean, not everything has to end up in two-by-two (or however many) romance and/or sex. I get McShep because damn do those two have chemistry, and I've enjoyed all sorts of pairings/groupings, but in my own fics I find I'm writing a bunch of gen friendship stuff. Because, you know, we don't get a lot of text dealing with powerful friendships in most modern media (Adama/Tigh possibly excepted), and one of the greatest advantages of fanworks is that the writer can use them to work out any damn thing he/she needs to with more chance of finding a sympathetic audience than original works tend to have. They're all just variations, interpretations. It's all good!

So, yeah, I see your point about the advantages of canon works avoiding shipping, and I'd agree unless the ship is really well done (which means intended and thought-out and integrated) that it's more likely to cause discord than appreciation -- especially when you get into situations like late Buffy. I mean, when the victim of the week has to ask who in the group haven't slept together (yet)? Sure, funny meta, show, except ... not so funny, really.

[jujuberry136.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I'm fine with ships introduced as solid in the first season (see Zoe and Wash in Firefly) but I much prefer to play around with shows that don't have a defined canon couple. The UST is just more FUN than the actual relationship most of the time, AND it gives all the fans wiggle room to play with their own OTP if it doesn't appear in canon.

[trystings.livejournal.com]

Well, for what it's worth, I like Keller and I don't feel driven from anywhere and I don't like McKeller, but I'm still very, very happy with my show, including season 5. ;)

I must be very dense when it comes to SGA wank. I don't deny it's around - I’ve rolled my eyes a few times when reading a McShep fix-it fic or when I saw a derogatory Keller comment on a post that had nothing to do with the character, but if there has been major wank, I've apparently mentioned to avoid it.

On the other hand, some people will probably find this post and its comments wanky. It's a shame, I love meta and discussions about storylines and characters and pairings. To me, that's what fandom is about (and fic. Lots of fic), but right now, I feel I have to weigh every word on a pair of scales, for fear that I offend someone. It's time we all lighten up a little and focus on what we love about SGA. Believe me, there's plenty.

The more open-ended canon is, the more freedom there is for all fans, all different shippers, to peacefully co-exist, and I like it that way.

Word!

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

It's always been interesting to me (and please don't take this the wrong way - it's not intended as a criticism, just an observation) that the LJ fandom was so completely taken aback by the McKeller negativity/fandom unhappiness. I suppose for myself, I discovered Gateworld before I discovered LJ, and they're two completely separate worlds. On Gateworld, the firestorm over the Carter for Weir exchange was furious and went on for months and months, and the Atlantis fandom on that board has never really gotten over it. On LJ, there was a little bit about it, but mostly LJ fans accepted it without any big deal. It wasn't until McKeller came along that LJ started getting upset, but I suppose after over a year and half of the GW stuff, I was pretty immune to it, and didn't really see it as any big change - just LJ finally catching up. LOL! :)

Actually, though, now that I think about it, I guess a lot of that had to do with shipping, though, too. GW has a lot of het shippers, and not very many slash shippers. And the loss of Elizabeth only inflamed the already tense standoff between the S/W shippers, which were (and I think still are) the largest het ship, and the J/T shippers, which considered themselves to be the rightful canon-intended ship.

LJ, though, is more slash shippers and gen fans, and they didn't really felt threatened that much until McKeller came along.

Just as a matter of curiosity, what do you think would have happened if, instead of McKeller, we had gotten Sheyla at comparable levels of intensity? The dream at the beginning of S&R certainly signaled they were thinking about going that route at some point at least. Do you think there would have been a similar reaction? Or is it because it's Keller? Or it's because it's Rodney and Sheppard's not getting enough attention? I'm not drawing any conclusions here - I'm just curious what you think.

[dovil.livejournal.com]

I think it's also a case of people not taking care of their fandom squee and wanting a hive mind - if you dearly love character x/pairing y and someone's gone meta all over it saying why they loathe it, and yet you still click on the link - that's not fandom driving you out, that's being masochistic and winding yourself up.

Human nature I guess. I'm sure we've all been guilty of it.

And after going through something similar in the Buffy fandom on the other side of things (I was a Spike/Angel shipper, some people who felt strongly about Spike loathed Buffy, I happened to like that character) and the conversations which weren't what I wanted to be involved with, I trimmed my flist, avoided certain coms, and made posts with the warning that this was a Buffy Bashing Free Zone - people respected it, I made a niche for myself and I was a lot happier about the whole thing. People were free to discuss the evils of Buffy, I was free to avoid it - plus the great thing about getting too emotional about the whole thing - internet time outs and switching the commuter off - I find it was a great way to put things in perspective.

[sholio]

I think you have a good point about growing ship wars, and the fandom being mellower in the beginning. But I think that what you haven't seen, because you haven't been in the fandom as long as I have, is that there have been cycles of this sort of thing all along; it just hasn't gotten this bad.

There has always been character hate and ship-warring in the fandom. There was some pretty massive Elizabeth hate in seasons 1/2, and ship wars between the John/Rodney, John/Elizabeth and John/Teyla factions during the same time. This had mostly settled down when I got into fandom, but then there was a massive upswell of character hate (directed mostly towards Carter and Keller) towards the end of season three. I had almost forgotten how bad it really was until I went back and re-read a Carter fic from that era just recently -- I would consider the author's tone towards Carter ambiguous at best (I don't think she comes off very well), but the comments are all gushing praise at the author for not demonizing her and treating her fairly. That's how bad it was -- if you were a Carter fan, the best you could hope for was a story that didn't utterly ream your favorite character.

During the season 3/4 gap, I locked comments on a few posts much as I did towards the end of season five, because it was pretty much impossible to post anything about the show without an influx of OH NOES CARTER KELLER THE SHOW IS RUINED sky-is-falling comments. There were anecdotal stories about Tapping and Staite being booed at conventions. Just a whole lot of free-floating unpleasantness, like now.

But the initial firestorm of anger and misery ended pretty quickly (at least in my segments of fandom) because the disgruntled fans got fed up with the show and the fandom, and left. The Carson fans left; ditto for many of the Carter fans; the Elizabeth and John/Elizabeth fans either left, or retreated to a few ShepWeir-specific communities that denied season 4+ canon. I'm still friends with a few people who (with varying amounts of bitterness) jumped ship at that time.

There were also lesser firestorms. Katie Brown was widely loathed. So was Heightmeyer; so was Caldwell and, of course, everyone's whipping boy, Kavanagh. And that's not even to touch the rounds of race-related meta ...

So it's not new. I think one of the only reasons why it's so much bigger this time is because John/Rodney fandom is affected to a greater degree. Let's face it, the McShep fans have always been the bulk of the fandom, and earlier ship wars and fannish misery about the show were kind of like planetoids colliding around the giant body of McShep fandom -- it just couldn't get through to the bulk of fandom, which stayed in its happy place. This time, canon itself threw a monkey wrench in McKay/Sheppard fandom, and that meant that suddenly the John/Rodney fans were in the same place that the John/Elizabeth fans had been at the end of season 3, or the John/Teyla fans with Kanaan. And because they had so much more pull, their unhappiness took the whole tone of the fandom down like a lead balloon.

I'm not blaming McKay/Sheppard fandom or saying that the only disgruntled fans are McShep fans, or that all McShep fans are unhappy. But I think that's a very large factor in why it's become so overwhelming this time, when it didn't before -- because McKay/Sheppard fandom, due to its monolithic size, was a stabilizing element on the overall fandom (with some assistance from the equally stable and -- relative to the rest of gen fandom -- equally large John-Rodney segment of gen fans). No matter what was happening elsewhere in fandom or canon, the majority of fans were happy anyway. Now it's having the opposite effect -- its overwhelming size has made it a destabilizing element.

[sholio]

I do, by the way, really appreciate that your original post is so respectful to both sides.

There was, as you know because you got the notifications, a whole lot more to this comment, which I've edited out because it was really just ranting, and why bother. It's over, it's done. Time to move on.

[droolfangrrl.livejournal.com]

I completely fail when in comes to ship wars. I may not get who you like or want to write about, but why should i really care one way or another that you like and/ or write about something.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Every fandom I know of that has these battles, has these levels of anger and resentment between fans, is a fandom with canon ships

You know, I think you may have something there. I remember bitter, bitter ship wars in HP fandom, but none at all during my brief experience in Mariachi/Once Upon a Time in Mexico fandom. And in PotC fandom, the period after th first movie was sort of an awesome, polytastic halcyon period where everybody kind of shipped everyone, and Sparrington, any combination of Jack/Will/Elizabeth, and various other pairings all coexisted happily. Then the second movie came out, the Jack/Will/Elizabeth love triangle became canon instead of just a bunch of fun subext, and the Elizabeth/Will vs. Elizabeth/Jack vs. anti-Elizabeth fans vs. angry Norrington fans infighting almost tore the fandom apart (and I think did ruin it for a lot of people - it definately made it less fun to be an OT3 fan, when half the fen out there seemed to want you to take sides in their ship war and you just wanted happy and/or angsty threesome-y goodness). I still maintain that Elizabeth kissing Jack and then chaining him to the Pearl's mast was the most awesome Lizzie moment in the whole series, though *grins*

*ponders* Anime fandoms may merit a special note, since they manage not only to fight bitter ship wars over canon ships, but also between different fans who all ship the same pairing over which character should be the seme and which should be the uke.

The whole thing makes me kind of glad cap_ironman is basically it's own fandom and doesn't interact with Iron Man movie-verse fandom that much - a Steve/Tony vs. Tony/Pepper ship war would suck almost as much as current comics canon does. Plus, most fans seem to like (or at least not mind) the canon het ships on the Avengers, and to like the female characters. Possibly everyone just takes their wankier impulses to scans_daily.

*uses wanky canon het icon*

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

The thing is, though, this strikes me as selfish. You're asking for a writer to dream up a character but not have any kind of fun with them. Set them to their appointed task like automatons and wash and repeat until fandom finds a new crush. So the original creator is responsible for providing fandom with their toys, but fandom actually owns that character and gets to decide who he fucks and who he falls in love with.

I rather hate that idea. But I'm looking for good stories in and of themselves. Not character templates to play with. (I don't write fanfic though. I'm sure that changes things.)

[shardsofblu.livejournal.com]

Personally I just don't understand all the fuss about canon ships -- for me, you ship whomever you like, simple as that. Canon schmanon. If they're canon, it's just icing on the cake for me. If not, I have no problems.

[monkey-junkey.livejournal.com]

Well said! Subtext and UST make the world go 'round.

[not-as-we.livejournal.com]

i tend to fall for a certain ship in a show when i watch it for the first time, and then grow to love the show afterwards, without ships there is no fandom, at least for me :)

[jlh.livejournal.com]

The only series I know of with low-conflict canon ships are ships which were introduced in the first season, that the fandom grew up around, and even in those there's often little interaction between contrasting shippers.

May I ask which show you mean?

Happily, I'm spending most of my time in HIMYM fandom, which is ship-war free, and which structurally can't really have a ship war anyway.

Here via metafandom...

[xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com]

This is why I never watch shows that are still airing. I need to know what happens, and I only like canon pairings in my fandoms. I can't handle the stress of not knowing if they're going to break my heart or jump the shark or whatever.

[amycooper.livejournal.com]

Yes, but...

I often find it is with pairings that develop in the mild of a series and wasn't developed particularly well. One can argue, quite successfully actually, that SGA as a whole can be awkward at best when writing relationships and women, and so of course the writing for McKay and Keller's relationship will be equally as awkward. Hell, sometimes I think part of the reason Stargate fandom has such a large following is because the characters are generally good premises and actors are talented but the individual stories are crap. And it is fun to build off of and make it better. (The Sentinel is a good example of this too). Some people can continue going with the flow when awkward ship is introduced because, hello, most of the show is like that. Some aren't for a variety of reasons (Stargate's tendency to have really poorly written women is one biggie, but isn't the only potential reason).

It just doesn't seem like shows that either write the canon ship rather well or establish from the beginning that they will be shipping have the same level of fandom drama.

[cnidarian.livejournal.com]

Interesting post. This line in particular:

...while male characters are often introduced for plot purposes, nine times out of ten a new female character is going to mean new canon ships.

Painfully true.

I have to note, from a personal point of view, that my little shipping corner seems to have come away without getting in any wars. Stargate Daniel/Janet. Now, it was never canon, but later on Daniel/Vala was and we never got into any wank about that - in fact, some of the group ship both pairings. Perhaps Janet being dead before Vala came on the scene helped, but as you said, a character dying can be a source of much rage too and it would've been easy for the group to adopt a hostile attitude to the canon ship that existed while theirs was denied (and killed off).
I think another thing that helped was that Janet was seen as a non-threatening character. Unlike the Sam/Jack vs Daniel/Jack wars, there seemed to be an acceptance of Janet pairings with people who otherwise shipped the other half with someone else. That said, it was rare enough that it was never big enough to be perceived as a threat.

[mistress-kabuki.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom.

First off, I'm a slasher so my response if from that background. Hardly any of those fandom ships are made canon.

Very intersting observations regarding female characters. I have to admit that the shipping doesn't interest me unless there's a gen story behind it and I tend to get frusterated with forced realtionships i.e. characters introduced in canon and shown beginning a relationship without good canonical reason. A good example of this was the Remus/Tonks pairing in the HP canon -- true it pissed off a lot of Sirius/Remus and Snape/Remus fans, but the way the relationship was dropped out of the blue was the truely irksome part.

This brings me back to your point about female characters. Most of the ones I like are ones that have no canon ship and draw strength from their own actions instead of a canon relationship. Maybe it's just me and the fact that I primarily enjoy slash pairings, but the idea of women only being introduced as pairing partners might contribute to this resentment and eventually some of the shipping wars -- that a character is purposefully being introduced to "cure the gay" so to speak. In that sense, fans have a right to be mad. Not only are female characters being introduced for shallow reasons but their ships are being termed invalid and perhaps dangerous by the creators.

Just my $.02 -- I'm fascinated by the reactions in fandom when new characters and relationships are introduced. It always causes division.

[mistri.livejournal.com]

Interesting post. I'm here via Metafandom. I don't know anything about SGA, but I'm currently involved in a fandom (John Paul/Craig, in Hollyoaks, the British soap) that has a very bitter shipping war going on.

Basically, it is unusual in having two canon m/m relationships, both involving the same guy (John Paul). The fans split into two camps, who both can't understand (I'm generalising) what on earth the other side sees in their ship.

This: "Nothing embitters your average fan as much as a ship that sinks their own" is so true.

However, I do love having canon ships. And if you follow the ship that 'wins' (that sounds pathetic, I know), it gives you something to refute people who ship another pair. For example on CSI, I liked Grissom/Sara, but there were plenty of fans who would go on and on about all the reasons why G/S either weren't together or were doomed to fail. So when (spoiler!) they ended up together when Grissom left it 'proved' the relationship was real (though some could still argue the relationship would fail off-screen, I suppose).