shipping kills puppies!

[xparrot]

I've seen a couple discussions about the negative turn SGA fandom has taken, re: McKeller, people, mostly Keller fans (or at least not anti-Keller fans) who are feeling actively driven from the fandom by aggressive character/pairing hate. They feel this is a recent trend, and I concur; while SGA had its share of past wank, I think it was one of the lower-conflict fandoms for its size. And if that's changed now, then I blame shipping. Or rather, canon shipping.

Every fandom I know of that has these battles, has these levels of anger and resentment between fans, is a fandom with canon ships. Witness Smallville, or HP. Ships going canon wreak havoc on a fandom. Nothing embitters your average fan as much as a ship that sinks their own, and an embittered fan can be eager to share their hate, wants the solidarity of all of fandom telling TPTB that they're wrong, wants all of fandom together seeking change. Even killing a character doesn't cause the kind of conflict that shipping does...

There are other things that get fans' backs up, but the majority of fen are shippers, and ships are often why they fan. There are exceptions, there are other types of fans - and other types of shippers - but in modern Western media fandom, the majority of fans (slash, het, even many gen fen) are in it for particular relationships. Mess with those relationships in canon, and you get fandom meltdown.

(I think there's a reason that a lot of the old fan shows, the big ones, were series that never had canon ships, never had any romances that lasted more than a single episode. Star Trek, Starsky & Hutch, The Sentinel, all those old episodic shows that never really progressed the character relationships - that never changed them, never pulled the figurative rug out from under fannish feet. The only series I know of with low-conflict canon ships are ships which were introduced in the first season, that the fandom grew up around, and even in those there's often little interaction between contrasting shippers. I also suspect it's a major reason why new female characters are viewed with such suspicion, because while male characters are often introduced for plot purposes, nine times out of ten a new female character is going to mean new canon ships.)

I don't blame shippers. I'm a shipper myself; I wouldn't fan without my ships. I need my OTPs to fic. And I strive to be reasonable and fair to all my fellow fans, but I still have been known to go utterly psycho batshit when I feel my OTP is "threatened," so it doesn't surprise me to see other otherwise reasonable types lose it over shipping. It's frustrating since the fandom used to be cooler about it - but then the fandom didn't have canon ships before. A fandom with canon ships has ship wars. It just seems to be a fact of fandom; it's why I tended to avoid Who fandom, or Avatar fandom, why I often keep wary distance from anime fandoms.

My OTPs aren't canon, generally (at least not in my fic fandoms, my active "Type B" fandoms - and I tend to avoid main fandom for my Type As, because I'd just as soon not get drawn into shipping wars.) But I don't need my OTPs to be canon to be satisfied, don't need my interpretation of the characters validated above all other interpretations. As long as they're never actually denied, I'm good. The more open-ended canon is, the more freedom there is for all fans, all different shippers, to peacefully co-exist, and I like it that way.

If I sound like I'm saying I'd rather not have canon ships in my ficcing fandoms - yeah, I am. Bring on the subtext and the UST, and leave the consummations to the fanfic. Maybe it's unrealistic and maybe it's boring, but I don't care. It's more peaceful that way XP

Comments

[sholio]

PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT EXCEPT WITH SQUEE.

See, I hate making qualifiers like that; it's why I'd rather post my stories with comments locked than say something like "No comments unless you say nice things!" On the other hand, I guess if the choice is between not being in the fandom at all, or running my LJ like a boot camp ...

And, yeah ... I do tend to be a bit of a pushover, and to let people debate me far past the point where I'm enjoying it. XD I know that most people aren't trying to harsh anyone; they're just upset and very up-front about it. And it sucks just as much to be the one having the show change to the point where you no longer enjoy it; it's happened to me with a number of shows (SG1, Lost, SPN kinda), and while I'm actually okay with those, I think it would be a different story if I were invested in their fandoms to the degree that I am with SGA.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I don't think you'd need to "boot camp" your whole lj - just particular posts. And hopefully you wouldn't need much enforcing; people would watch themselves. And look at it this way, there's quite a few fans who would really appreciate a squee-harshing-free environment!

And it sucks just as much to be the one having the show change to the point where you no longer enjoy it;

Yeah...I honestly suspect that some of the sploogey Keller-hate that fans have been getting is people so embittered by the show that they're angered by people who do still like it - they actually do want to ruin it for other fans, because it's not fair for someone else to be getting what they like, at (what they see as) the expense of their own enjoyment. It's not logical or nice, but it's all too human a reaction.

And yes, too - I've had shows change on me in ways I didn't like and I've let them go, but never when I was actively fanning on them at the time - it's been. Hmm. Unsettling. From my own experience, I think the virulent Keller-hate is from that, too - because I know that just as you are turned off of fandom by the hate, I'm actually comforted by it (well, not the actually misogynistic stuff, but knowing that I'm in the majority in disliking her character) - it feels good to know I'm far from alone in my opinions, even if TPTB are ignoring us. It drives me from the show but towards the fandom, knowing that the fic is not going to change the same way the show did. ...And then I want y'all to come with us, and try to convince you it's better on this side, that you'd be happier if you just gave in and hated...(I'm sure there's some great metaphor that could go here - perhaps I should write meta-fic...)

[sholio]

*snort* Be careful what you wish for; hating one character just tends to get me hating the whole show (that's more or less what happened to me in December, and in the meltdown comment below). Actually, I have a huge fannish contrarian streak, which means that having the rest of the fandom hate a character tends to make me paradoxically want to do justice to them in my own writing -- that was definitely true of, say, Yamucha in DBZ fandom, who I always had a big soft spot for. My deep and abiding love of Bulma, while at least in part because I'm just a total pushover for snarky geniuses of whatever gender, also probably had something to do with the number of fics that portrayed her as a shrill blue-haired harpy. (Actually, canon itself portrayed her as a shrill blue-haired harpy quite often ... which just gave me more incentive to write her as a more nuanced character!)

Anyway, I'm glad that you do get comfort from it, even if it's not my own happy place; I know that I've gotten my own share of comfort from snuggling up to like-minded fans and bitching from time to time.

I also know that I'm having to fight against the "ruin it for everyone else" impulse; I was thinking about that today, too, because I think that at least some of my most virulent show-hate is, at heart, driven by a vindictive desire to hurt other fans for having hurt me -- there's a bitter little part of me that wants to rip apart Rodney's flaws, say, until the Rodney-fans feel the same anger and hurt that I'm feeling. At least I'm mostly managing to control it; I think I'm hurting myself at least as much as anyone else by writing stuff like that, because I do believe it as I'm writing it, but once I get done venting and have some time to calm down, I feel more equanimous and much less like killing off the cast in breakup fic. XD

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

It seems like you're not alone in wanting to leap to the defense of hated characters; I've seen others express the same thing (I had that essay about "everybody loves X" and the reverse is true for quite a percentage of folks, it seems...)

I don't work quite like that, but I can sympathize because I walk my own fannish path, and quite often like what others don't. So I loved Bulma (and bore no animosity towards Yamcha - I didn't even know people didn't like him. I was never that active in DBZ fandom, what was the beef there? It wasn't like he was any threat to Bulma/Vegeta...oh, fandom, you so strange!) And Gnine and I once traumatized a good friend who expressed dislike of Nami on One Piece, and we were a bit, um, overly enthusiastic in our defense ^^;

The wanting to ruin it for others is a dangerous impulse, I think - not dangerous as in actually seriously harmful; but I think it can damage one's own fanning as easily as others'. I think some of this Keller-hate conflict is because there's these different impulses - some fans really are out to get the Keller-fans, try to ruin the show/char for them. Other fans aren't trying to ruin it; they just want other fans to see it their way. They're similar urges, but not quite the same.

And then, there's the differences in approach - there are few outright Keller-fans; most of the people who defend her don't love her, they just don't hate her and don't like the hate. But in absence of Keller-love, their tactics are more offensive than defensive - rather than explaining to Keller-haters why they like Keller and emphasizing her good traits, they're more likely to attack the other characters, insist that she's no worse than any of them. Which just ends up ruining everybody's fun, because it doesn't help the Keller-haters like Keller anymore, and it makes the defenders dislike everyone else.

Then, too, sometimes the debaters are just from totally different angles. To a non-OTP fan, it's hard to explain why OTP-breakage is so painful...

I'm trying to curb my own negative impulses, because I enjoy myself a lot more when I'm squeeing. But I do get frustrated (especially when I see blanket statements made about other fans; canon opinions bother me less for some reason.) And I do like debate and analysis to an extent. And then, sometimes I just lose it, and, yes, want other fen to be as upset as I am...

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I know that just as you are turned off of fandom by the hate, I'm actually comforted by it... it feels good to know I'm far from alone in my opinions, even if TPTB are ignoring us.

Yes. This. Whenever I get really upset about Marvel, I go read the vicious, angry rantings of fanboys on message boards (where anyone who ever dares to suggest that a given plotline, character, or writer might not be a crime against God and humanity gets told that they're "a f*cking idiot," hate America, and are probably a terrorist), and it makes me feel so much better, OMG despite the fact that half of them are barely literate trolls. Whereas if I see anyone being positive about X horrible canon thing, it makes me so upset that it can ruin my entire day - I have this deep, utterly irrational conviction that if anyone out there doesn't hate X horrible thing and demand that it go away, they're doing the fannish equivalent of murdering Tinkerbell by declaring that they don't believe in fairies while the rest of us are do our best to try and clap, and that their liking of it will actively cause canon to get worse via some kind of sympathetic magic.

[copracat]

Hi, please do let me know it this is out of line. (edit: Actually, I deleted those bits before I posted.)

The fiction has changed because the show changed. I love McShep as much as the next girl, but many fans are now writing first to remove Keller, then get to the McShep and that's been a pretty big change.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

This isn't out of line at all; it's totally true. But that's the exact problem. I don't want to read about getting Keller out of the way - relationship breakups just aren't my thing, and even though I don't like Keller, I don't particularly like character-bashing - but I don't want to read McKeller either. And I like canon-based fic. So now - I have zero options. The only way to write Keller-free McShep is to ignore canon. And I like sticking to canon as best I can; denial is a hard road.

I'm working on a fic now that I started mid s4 - Keller's not in it and not really mentioned (it's not set on Atlantis). But since it's a Rodney-centric story, this has been causing me conniptions - I don't know if I should casually reference a break-up, or not mention her at all...and any way I do it, I'm probably gonna annoy some fans. The rest of the story I can update to accommodate s5, but that aspect is stymieing me.

This is why I said that, as a ficcer, I don't want canon shipping. UST's fine - if the canon had hinted at McKeller but never actually shown them together (a la Sam/Jack), then I'd be okay with it. Some people could write McKeller and others could write McShep and some could write both depending on their mood. Now, if you're a canon-follower, you have to decide. (For that matter, I'd think the canon shipping is stifling to McKeller shippers - they can't write their own getting-together/first time stories (without denying canon), and that's the most popular kind of pairing fic...I honestly would never want McShep slash to have happened in canon, because I doubt I'd like the way these writers wrote it!)

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

The rest of the story I can update to accommodate s5, but that aspect is stymieing me.

Out of curiosity ... why not just set it S4? I mean, I know that's certainly not the solution for every story, but at least in some cases it would seem to at least avoid the question, unless there's something specific from later on you wanted to integrate.

(Myself, most of my plotbunnies naturally seem to slot into mid-season three, just because I liked the dynamic that included Beckett and Weir best. In fact, four of my seven (dammit!) WIPs are set then, and a fifth isn't time-specific but feels like it's in that same period so far. I suspect it's not a coincidence that I really started watching the show regularly in season three.)

I'm just wondering if you have a particular reason to set your story "current" -- I feel as if I've seen that sentiment before, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or if it's just a preference thing ....

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's personal preference! The story in question goes pretty substantially AU, so I'd prefer to set it post-canon - I like stories that fit into canon somewhere, because otherwise I have to take myself out of canon to enjoy them. Hmm, that's hard to explain. But...I love Written by the Victors, it's one of my favorite stories in the fandom. But it frustrates me that it doesn't fit into canon, that it could never happen. I know it never would happen, but I like to imagine that it could; but it's impossible now.

I've written several fics that are set in earlier points in canon because they could slip in between eps without changing anything. But this particular story can't be "slipped in" anywhere (over a non-canonical year passes in the story). Ideally I'd like to keep it vague where it branches off from canon - but s4-5 have too many diverging details to make that possible. I'm thinking of just putting it early s5, but it bugs me to have to decide, and to know that it didn't go like this, that I'm writing something irrelevant to the "true" canon story...

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

Okay, I actually get that. One of those WIPs of mine starts mid-3 and needs about two years to pass, and I want Carter there at that point and a year further -- and it's really frustrated me that I either have to stretch the canon timelines beyond all credibility or have Carter retain or regain the Atlantis posting. Considering that the initiating event of the fic inherently throws everything AU, I can't say why I'm so resistent to the latter option, and yet I am. Feh.

But thanks for the explanation. I think I'm less resistent than you to canon noncompliance but still susceptible to it, so it makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

I don't like Keller, I don't particularly like character-bashing - but I don't want to read McKeller either. And I like canon-based fic. So now - I have zero options. The only way to write Keller-free McShep is to ignore canon. And I like sticking to canon as best I can; denial is a hard road.
Yes, yes, this exactly. Except I do like Jennifer as Rodney's friend--just like Katie for that matter--but I can't just ignore canon, except when I explicitly write AU. It's like going back to write fic for early seasons. I don't think I could write Rodney as openly gay in an early season 1 fic (let's ignore his stint on SG-1) because I know he won't be. Or John as having a supportive father who encouraged him to be openly gay.

I've seen a few people who are not happy with the way the McKeller relationship is sometimes being dealt with say that you don't have to break them up, just ignore it. Well, I wish that I could, but when I write canon-based fic, it's canon-based and that means all of canon. I won't pretend that John was never married and I can't pretend that Rodney didn't declare his love for Jennifer (and she for him). When I really don't want to deal with it (because let's face it, there are only so many fixits that you can write), I'll take the casually-mention-their-breakup approach, which still acknowledges what happened in canon.

I think there are a few reasons why McKeller is disliked more than other canon couples: Looking at both SGA and SG-1, I began to trust that shipping would only happen on the side between a main character and a recurring one (like Sam/Pete) or stay at a subtextual level and that it would never interfere with the sanctity of team as the center of the show (like Sam/Jack). I loved how they ended SG-1. Even though they put shipping in the last episode (very explicitly), they hit the reset button and much more importantly it still ended as team (and that was my personal impression of the whole show; it never stopped being about the team). SGA stopped being about team when TPTB discovered the beauty of only-two/three-character episodes (mid-season 4 or maybe even earlier). I think McKeller has the incredible bad luck of being the most visible symptom of a complete change in the premise of the show from team to individual character episodes (that have Keller and to a lesser degree Woolsey as equal or even more important than Teyla or Ronon or even John). Additionally the execution of McKeller was clumsy (to put it mildly) to me.

I actually have my own lengthy post about season 5 and Jennifer in particular brewing for months now and posts like these remind me of finally writing it up and posting, because I do find the discussion interesting.

And yes, I so wish they would have left McKeller as subtext.