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xparrotThe last few weeks have been very confusing for me writing-wise because somehow my brain decided to deal with all the stress and disruption of present times by making me write porn. Which is pretty normal stress-relief for a lot of people, but I...am just not into smut? For the longest time I've said I'm both the worse gen fan ever because I have so many ships; but also the worst slash fan because while I love romance, I always just skim the sticky bits.
I've been writing explicit stuff on occasion for years now -- I actually enjoy writing it more than reading it, have never figured that one out -- but this run I think is about the most I've ever written at once (...and I think it's pretty tame stuff really, but it feels like A Lot to me ^^;;;)
But I seem to be working it out of my system because last night I went back to an old and much-loved trope wheelhouse and wrote pure angst and ahh, it was very nice! Not sure yet what I'm going to do with this, if anything. But there was some talk on Twitter a bit ago about presumed dead and how there wasn't enough of it in Guardian fic, and this is a variation on one of the ideas that came up...
I've been writing explicit stuff on occasion for years now -- I actually enjoy writing it more than reading it, have never figured that one out -- but this run I think is about the most I've ever written at once (...and I think it's pretty tame stuff really, but it feels like A Lot to me ^^;;;)
But I seem to be working it out of my system because last night I went back to an old and much-loved trope wheelhouse and wrote pure angst and ahh, it was very nice! Not sure yet what I'm going to do with this, if anything. But there was some talk on Twitter a bit ago about presumed dead and how there wasn't enough of it in Guardian fic, and this is a variation on one of the ideas that came up...
Zhao Yunlan locked the apartment door, and then stood before it--exhaling, his shoulders falling, his head canted down.
"Zhao Yunlan?" Shen Wei could not help but ask, even knowing too well that it would go unheard. He reached out, wishing he could only extend his hand from the wormhole to touch Zhao Yunlan's shoulder. To tug him to turn around, so Shen Wei might see his face now.
In a moment, Zhao Yunlan heaved another breath, and turned anyway to move further into the apartment. Shen Wei peered anxiously into his revealed face, but saw--nothing. No expression he could identify; no expression of feeling at all. Zhao Yunlan's sensitive, mobile lips were set together, not smiling, but not twisted with a scowl either. His brow was relaxed for all the slightly tense hunch to his shoulders. His eyes were...
His eyes were blank, vaguely unfocused, enough that Shen Wei feared he'd been hurt after all, in a way Shen Wei hadn't been able to discern before. Surely his team wouldn't have allowed him to go home alone if he were concussed, or some other injury.
Or else perhaps Zhao Yunlan had been concealing it from them. While he was not limping, his steps were dragging as he crossed the room. As if he were exhausted, though it was not so late. Maybe his stomach was troubling him? Though instead of going to his bed, or to the refrigerator for his medicine, he went to the table instead. Took one of the bottles there, then turned to the counter and started to reach for one of the glasses in the drying rack that Shen Wei had washed this morning, and had since been unable to put away.
Except Zhao Yunlan paused, his hand outstretched for the glass. Froze for a moment, not even breathing, and then let go the held breath in a short, harsh rasp, as he spun on his heel, turned away from the rack of clean dishware.
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Date: 2020-04-20 02:03 am (UTC)My first attempts at writing fanfic was back when I was 10 (mostly Star Wars and Star Trek) ... and at 10 with no one to tell me better ... ahahaha years (decades really) later when I fell into the black hole that is Minekura - only then did I realise. And at 10 , smut was the furthest thing from my mind.
I do read it but writing it, I've only made half-hearted attempts and have decided that I will leave that to those better at it than me, quite willing to read some of it if it is within a story well told, but I too gloss over it ... and then carry on.
And I haven't fallen down the Guardian rabbit hole, even though everybody I know everywhere is telling me to. I just haven't the time.
However, in these mad, mad times, I hope you and yours are doing ok. Stay safe, stay strong and stay sane.
Love and hugs ... Take care - Zan
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Date: 2020-04-20 10:01 am (UTC)Hee, yep, Star Wars and Star Trek were some of my first fandoms too! The ironic thing is that one of the reasons I glommed onto fanfic so hard when I first found it on the internet is that it was stories that didn't focus on romance but things like h/c, which was so much more my jam. It wasn't that I wanted plot instead; I loved character-driven stories with strong emotions and feels, it's just that a lot of romance didn't give me those. And then slowly I came around to it, sometimes, but not really the smut.
Which is why it's so weird writing it, because I don't really have any idea how effective it is? For a lot of my fic, I at least know I'm liking what I write, and stuff I love personally tends to get good reactions from people who like similar things. While writing smut is flying blind for me ^^;;
Guardian will be here if/when you ever have time for it ^^ (and I probably will bounce back to it even if I drift, it has the feeling of a forever fandom. And, not to push it, but there are a lot of Saiyuki fans in Guardian, with good reason, as the main stars could definitely be fancast as Gojyo and Hakkai...!)
(We're all doing okay, if stressed...hope you are all managing as well, stay safe! *hugs*)
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Date: 2020-04-20 08:02 am (UTC)The things happening here, through Shen Wei's clueless POV, OH MY. Zhao Yunlan is so broken, and he's going to drink (a LOT) from the bottle because he can't deal with touching the glass that Shen Wei washed. ;_; And Shen Wei either doesn't realize he's supposedly dead (I assume? but he's in a portal, so..) or is so far gone in self-denial that he doesn't realize his death has broken ZYL, and I can see either happening. And I want to wallow in alllllllll of ittttttt.
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Date: 2020-04-20 10:04 am (UTC)(you should totally do it too, come on in and play, the angst is fiiiiine!!)
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Date: 2020-04-20 11:53 am (UTC)\o/ \o/ \o/
and yet miss certain key things like where he actually sits in his heart
SNIFF. Yes. And I love how you put that.
And yes, it is one of my most bullet-proof kinks, too - I like smut fine, especially if it's still driven by emotion (and of course want to read yours, too!) but I think most of my actual kinks are in the realm of h/c, ha.
And Presumed Dead where the one who isn't dead can SEE the other's reaction is so good - especially because as you said Shen Wei just doesn't understand how loved he is, at alll. But then neither does ZYL, and, yeahhh I really want to write this theme too, it makes me ache with longing to read ALL THE FIC. It's going on the list!
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Date: 2020-04-21 05:51 am (UTC)Shen Wei just doesn't understand how loved he is, at alll. But then neither does ZYL, and, yeahhh I really want to write this theme too, it makes me ache with longing to read ALL THE FIC. It's going on the list!
\o/\o/\o/
And yeah -- Zhao Yunlan understands some different things than Shen Wei does, like, he's had some painful object lessons in just how much Shen Wei will do/sacrifice for him, but at the same time he has as hard a time understanding that he deserves any of it...oh these guys, they're just champions at the heartbreak (they angst so very deliciously!)
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Date: 2020-04-21 09:58 pm (UTC)writing sex and angst
Date: 2020-04-22 01:24 am (UTC)It just occurred to me that perhaps part of the reason why I still haven't managed to write a proper sex scene in Guardian is that the relationship is so intense that taking it physical can't actually level it up. While I am convinced that they do have sex, its not at the heart of the attraction or the relationship in my eyes. After all, this is the canon that gave me the most intense, well-developed, passionate and satisfying m/m love story I have ever seen on-screen - all without a single kiss.
Maybe you enjoy writing porn more than reading it because then, you can concentrate on exactly what it is you want to get out of the scene? As an example, it might not be the mechanics, but rather the angst and need and surrender (or something else!) that interest you...?
And I was really interested by your switch between writing smut and angst, because: The same emotional pay-off that I get from a good sex scene can also be delivered in another way, because it's about showing the need and love (and whatever else) for me. So angst and porn can actually do the exact same thing for me as a reader, and it makes perfect sense to me that you would swap these out for each other when writing. ;-)
And: Oh no, poor Zhao Yunlan. I surmise that something has happened to Shen Wei, and Shen Wei is (still) underestimating the hurt that will cause ZYL...
Re: writing sex and angst
Date: 2020-04-22 03:46 am (UTC)And ahhh maybe I should do a post on this! I keep getting into conversations about it; it's something I both am really interested in and also feel kind of awkward talking about. Not least of which because I know a lot of people enjoy porn but also are a bit embarrassed by that, and I really don't want to do anything to mess with that pleasure or make anyone feel like they have to justify it. That being said...it is fascinating to me, the different perspectives we come from!
It just occurred to me that perhaps part of the reason why I still haven't managed to write a proper sex scene in Guardian is that the relationship is so intense that taking it physical can't actually level it up.
You know, that makes a lot of sense to me!
It's funny, I have a lot of OTPs that I happily see as either gen or a ship; the sex is inconsequential one way or another to what I enjoy in the relationship. But I have some OTPs that fall on one side of that spectrum or another -- I have a few relationships I'm fannish about that that I absolutely can only see as platonic and will not read sex/romance for at all. And then on the other side I have a few OTPs that I cannot see as platonic, and WeiLan is one of those; physical desire is just part of their connection, in my mind. But it's not something I need to see realized to be satisfied -- I'm basically okay that we don't get to see them kiss in the show (though I'm gutted that they don't get a real hug!) and in fic I am totally satisfied by fade to black. As long as I know they're happily hooking up, I don't need to see it.
Which, basically, is my thing in general. Like this:
The same emotional pay-off that I get from a good sex scene can also be delivered in another way, because it's about showing the need and love (and whatever else) for me. So angst and porn can actually do the exact same thing for me as a reader
That's just it! Except for me, sex doesn't typically give me that emotional payoff at all. Not the way angst or h/c can -- I have fictional "kinks" for sure, tropes and things I enjoy on this deep visceral level and actively seek out. But sex isn't one of them. Some of the things around it do interest me, but the act itself and descriptions of it aren't something I read fic for and more often than not is a mildly irritating distraction from the stuff I'm really into.
...Except I've been writing enough of it lately that I'm definitely getting something out of it? And yeah, it's not just the mechanics, it's the emotions behind them...but I'm writing the mechanics too. And lot of that is because it feels like the stories require a level of, hmm, mechanical detail to effectively convey the character interactions -- but why am I coming up with stories that require porny details, rather than other ideas?? It's just odd!
On the other hand, presumed-dead angst is a bullet-proof kink for me, so yeah, much less mystery there, really the only question is why did it take me this long XD
Re: writing sex and angst (and being a fannish romancer)
Date: 2020-04-23 01:19 am (UTC)Personally, I've stopped feeling embarrassed by liking porn, probably because at this point, I've written so much of it. I do remember feeling embarrassed while writing it in the beginning, though... man, that was a long time ago. ;-)
It's funny, I have a lot of OTPs that I happily see as either gen or a ship; the sex is inconsequential one way or another to what I enjoy in the relationship.
Ooh, that's interesting! I am a fannish romancer, myself; I only get into a fandom when I have an OTP (rather than, say, a single character that I love, or an ensemble cast that I love without shipping any of them). Without an OTP, I will love the canon - possibly very heatedly and enduringly - but I will probably never look for fanfic at all, and not get into fandom. I do read gen fanfic, but it has to relate to my OTP in some way... and actually, *this* is something that I am somewhat embarrassed about today; that I don't really want to read even the most excellent gen unless it brushes or leads up to romance, or is about backstory or the like.
But while I do always want my OTP's romance to include sex, I don't need to have it shown on-screen - although I can and do really enjoy that, too, if it gives me what I want from it beyond the mechanics.
WeiLan is one of those; physical desire is just part of their connection, in my mind. But it's not something I need to see realized to be satisfied -- I'm basically okay that we don't get to see them kiss in the show
Yes!! I am the same. I absolutely think that their relationship extends to the physical. I mean - Shen Wei's stares! He wants *everything* from Zhao Yunlan. His body is just a (debatably sized) part of that, but it is definitely part of it. But I also feel that what canon shows of the relationship is absolutely satisfactory. It expresses the same emotion that a more overtly sexual action would - for example, the way they stand close and gaze at each other with complete concentration and fascination is pretty much like the most intense kiss ever. So I don't need to see it either. :-)
why am I coming up with stories that require porny details, rather than other ideas?? It's just odd!
It really is! If there are several such stories at this point, is there a common denominator that might give you a hint? What do the porny scenes have in common, other than the porniness? What function do they serve in the plot and how do they influence the characters and the rerationship, for example?
And OMG, I am experiencing the exact opposite phenomenon. Seriously, a few weeks back I tried to come up with a plot idea that would pretty much *have* to include sex. So I thought, okay, undercover in a sex club or hookers - both of those are pretty fail-safe in terms of getting the OTP to have sex, right? And then I proceeded to hammer out the details in my head and realized - WOW. They would almost certainly be completely unable to have sex in this hooker story. *headdesk*
Re: writing sex and angst (and being a fannish romancer)
Date: 2020-04-23 11:45 pm (UTC)Ooh, that's interesting! I am a fannish romancer, myself; I only get into a fandom when I have an OTP (rather than, say, a single character that I love, or an ensemble cast that I love without shipping any of them). Without an OTP, I will love the canon - possibly very heatedly and enduringly - but I will probably never look for fanfic at all, and not get into fandom. I do read gen fanfic, but it has to relate to my OTP in some way...
See, this is why I say I'm a bad gen fan, because I get this completely, it's true for me as well! I have a lot of ensemble shows, books etc I love and I'm a fan of, but it's a different type of fanning than what I read and write fic for. Of the fandoms I've written more than one or two fic for, they're usually for a single relationship in that fandom. It's just for me this relationship doesn't have to be romantic; but I generally still want it to be the most important relationship to the characters. Like, I'm very into codependent sibling relationships that aren't incest but are unusually close/obsessive (I've been a Supernatural fan since season 1, long before Castiel existed!)
In all honesty, I started out in fandom as a gen only fan but got into slash/romantic shipping mostly because it was a good way to make sure my favorites wouldn't end up with someone else more important to them 😅 And yes, this is why I love h/c, because it's a great way to explore this kind of closeness but doesn't depend on romance.
And yeah, the not really wanting to read/write non-OTP fic...haaah it me. Even when I have a favorite character, it's still about the relationship for me really. Like, I love Shen Wei the most...but I'm mostly interested in reading about him in relation to Zhao Yunlan; in fact one of the reasons I love Shen Wei so much is because he is so wrapped up in Zhao Yunlan that you can't really separate them. Even when I wrote 10k of SW/other, the whole underlying theme is that Zhao Yunlan is the one for him 😅
If there are several such stories at this point, is there a common denominator that might give you a hint? What do the porny scenes have in common, other than the porniness? What function do they serve in the plot and how do they influence the characters and the rerationship, for example?
Oh I did not think of analyzing it so closely! Hmmm... Well, most of the porn I've written now is in my Dixing pon farr continuity. So it's really a version of h/c, putting them back together, fixing some of Shen Wei's intimacy issues. But then I was thinking about how all my smut has been h/c and so came up with an idea that wasn't...though that one is comedy instead (both of them tormenting each other 😅) I still don't have ideas that are just straight smut for the sake of hotness...
So I thought, okay, undercover in a sex club or hookers - both of those are pretty fail-safe in terms of getting the OTP to have sex, right? And then I proceeded to hammer out the details in my head and realized - WOW. They would almost certainly be completely unable to have sex in this hooker story.
Ahahah if only we could switch brains! But FWIW I would be so into a hooker story with no sex, so if you did feel like writing it... 😆 (What about your idea for demi Zhao Yunlan, could that bring in the sex?)
Re: writing sex and angst (and being a fannish romancer)
Date: 2020-04-26 12:21 am (UTC)Oh yes. For me this is almost always true, unless something exceptionally weird is going on with the way I relate to that particular canon.* I am in it for the romance, and I am an OTPer, so usually it's all about that one couple for me. Unrelated gen will not interest me; unrelated romance will not interest me; romance involving one part of my OTP with someone else is something I avoid the way demons avoid holy water. ;-)
* (I started out saying this is true for me without exception, but then you mentioned Supernatural, and I realized there are borderline cases where I creep into a fandom because I really want there to be an OTP for a character I love, but what's on offer doesn't quite click for me. Like Utena - or like Supernatural! I wrote a bit of Wincest back in the day even though those two are not an OTP for me, just because I loved Dean so much. He needed someone so badly, and Sam was the person Dean loved, but the relationship never really worked for me in the right way; if I'd stayed in the fandom for longer, I'm pretty sure I would have acquired Dean/Castiel as an actual OTP.)
I started out in fandom as a gen only fan but got into slash/romantic shipping mostly because it was a good way to make sure my favorites wouldn't end up with someone else more important to them
Heee, this makes perfect sense to me! Whether it's a gen OTP or a slash OTP, having it broken into by someone else is just awful. I know not all fans are OTPers, but for me it's really heart-breaking when an OTP doesn't work out. For me, it's clear these people need each other, and they will never be truly happy without each other, so it's incredibly sad and depressing to imagine them ending up with anyone else. Even when the author writes it as a completely happy pairing!
one of the reasons I love Shen Wei so much is because he is so wrapped up in Zhao Yunlan that you can't really separate them.
Oh yes! I love the way you put that. :-) Absolutely, they would not be themselves without each other.
Hmmmm... Could your porny ideas perhaps all be about addressing intimacy issues through sex / the physical? Whether it's h/c or comedy, I could see that as a possible common theme. (I love analyzing these things, but please do feel free to stop me! *g*)
Yeah, switching brains would be ideal! :-) And I might very well end up writing the hooker story without sex; I am just stuck on my present WIP(s) a bit, but do want to finish it first.
What about your idea for demi Zhao Yunlan, could that bring in the sex?
Hm, that's a good question! I think it very well might, in a future story. I always write Zhao Yunlan as demi because that's how I see him, but it doesn't really play a noticable part in the stories I'm presently working on (or those I've already written, for that matter). It'd definitely be more of a theme in one of my as-yet unwritten story ideas where they're just embarking on the relationship. Not a central theme, but more present, and so actually noticeable to people who are not me. :-)
Re: writing sex and angst (and being a fannish romancer)
Date: 2020-04-27 08:23 am (UTC)For me this is almost always true, unless something exceptionally weird is going on with the way I relate to that particular canon.
Yeah, I've had a few exceptions. The oddest was probably One Piece, in which I kind of OTP'd the whole crew. Which created this weird effect that I was sort of a multishipper, except I found I had trouble reading most ship-fic, because I was bothered by stories that implied any one pairing of chars had a closer relationship than those chars did with anyone else. Like a reverse OTP effect ^^;
For SPN, Dean is my favorite, but I do like him basically platonically married to Sam, and really like overall how they've developed. So while I actually like Cas as a char and like his friendship with both brothers, him being OTP with Dean, noooope cannot handle. Which did make being in SPN fandom a bit of a fraught experience ^^;
For me, it's clear these people need each other, and they will never be truly happy without each other, so it's incredibly sad and depressing to imagine them ending up with anyone else. Even when the author writes it as a completely happy pairing!
Ahaha oh yeah... it's worse if they're happy, really; if they're in another relationship but it's lacking, that can be angstily satisfying. While as I can't even skim-read a happy shipfic that breaks up my OTP because I'll actually get depressed ^^; I basically care about my favorite relationships more than the people in them (in fiction! I always feel the need to emphasize this ^^;;;;;)
Could your porny ideas perhaps all be about addressing intimacy issues through sex / the physical? Whether it's h/c or comedy, I could see that as a possible common theme. (I love analyzing these things, but please do feel free to stop me! *g*)
No, please do, I love it too!
Intimacy is definitely a big part of it...really it's the theme of most of what I write. The comedy one I'm not sure on, though...I might have to write that one just so I can figure out what it is about!
I wonder if some of it is just that I've written a lot of Guardian fic at this point, so writing the sex is an angle on their intimacy I haven't done as much of -- more fertile ground for me? Hmm....
It'd definitely be more of a theme in one of my as-yet unwritten story ideas where they're just embarking on the relationship. Not a central theme, but more present, and so actually noticeable to people who are not me. :-)
Sign me up for wanting to read this one too, if/when it gets written! I haven't read much of obviously demi!Zhao Yunlan and am curious to see how it plays out (he's demi-romantic in my mind for sure, but in the drama it is true that there's not much evidence that he had any kind of interest in anyone, until Shen Wei...)