would you like a little RAGE with your RAGE?

[xparrot]

So Martin Gero made some comments on the most recent episode of SGA.

"For five years, we didn’t even know it, but all [Rodney] wanted was for someone to tell him that they loved him in an unconditional way."

I want to...I want to kick Martin Gero's head in with a big spiky boot. OF LOVE.

So the love of friends and family (because doesn't Jeannie love him, too? or was she lying when she said "I love you" in "Miller's Crossing" and faking her tears in "The Shrine"?) counts for snot, because it's not romantic, sexual love.

And unconditional love is quoting a guy's own brain-damaged love confession back at him (six months later), and then offering him sex on a plane to make him shut up.

I have no boyfriend! I HAVE NO LOVE! What do I do??? My life is empty! Meaningless!

*cue total fucking mental breakdown*

Okay, now I'm going to do my best to forget this episode ever happened. There's been other eps I haven't enjoyed, but this is the first one that's seriously in danger of spoiling my fanning. It pretty much ruined Rodney's character for me even when I was ignoring the McKeller (I swear, I'd've been almost as outraged if the ep had gone the same way only with John instead of Keller, though at least then I'd have some McShep making out), and now that I am meant to think that banging Keller on the plane is the most significant and important event of Rodney's life in the past five years - yeah. Someone tell me how to hold onto my SGA love, because I don't want to lose this fandom, but the show seems pretty determined to use its dying breath to drive me away.

ETA: I gotta say, SGA these days is really making me appreciate NCIS. NCIS has one s5 ep that is explicitly the 100% opposite theme as this.

Comments

[runpunkrun]

I think GERO needs to get laid. Also, Keller did NOT say she loved Rodney unconditionally, she just repeated his own declaration of love back to him and as a result it came off as kind of fake and jokey. Not cool. You don't TELL someone you love them unconditionally, you SHOW them that. Which is pretty impossible to do in such a short time.

Wait, let's focus on why you love Rodney and shouldn't give up on him? Because he's arrogant and pushy, but sweetly vulnerable? And he's not good with people, but seems to have no trouble when he's surrounded by his team? And he plays dumb boy games with John? And he falls for Ronon's jokes EVERY TIME? And he's brave, and he loves his sister, and he looks really good in a t-shirt.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I really wonder about the SGA writers' romantic relationships. Seriously, if this is Gero's self-insert fantasy...having a pretty blonde girl spend most of her time telling him what he's doing wrong and how to be sociable...yeah, I wonder.

Yes! I need not to give up on Rodney! My Rodney, with the arrogance and the pushiness and the brilliance (he wasn't nearly arrogant enough in "Brainstorm" for my tastes, that was actually the biggest disappointment of the episode for me, far worse than the McKeller. I so wanted him all "ROAWR I will crush your puny intellects with my massive brain"...I miss the old obnoxious Rodney so much. Sigh.)

[calime]

That episode sucked for me on many levels, because I actually like Keller, or like her when she's written a certain way (which seems to happen less and less now, but the way she was in the beginning - shy and geeky yet smart and with some hints of hidden snark) and this epi kind of trashed both characters, for me.
So, I decided that actually, this was the return of the mist beings, only now they're teamed up with the sentient nightmare-inducing crystal, and someone(s) were having a particularly sucky nightmare. The kind of where you even know on some level that it is just a dream, but you cannot wake up and begin to fear that you'll remain trapped in it.
It's the only way I can reconcile that with the rest of the SGA, because IMO, the characterisation was really crappy, for both Rodney and Keller (I know Keller has been all over the spectrum, 'cause the TPTB just think *drool* when they look at Jewel - not that I can blame them a lot for that-, but Rodney - it was as if there had been none of the past five years. WTF??)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I wanted to like Keller in the beginning - I absolutely loved Jewel in Firefly, and I was looking forward to having another female character for Teyla to bond with. And then they decided to make her character arc All About Romance, and that killed the buzz for me. Now I struggle not to hate her, and I'm sad to say I'm losing the battle (I don't like disliking characters, dang it...!)

But I can't use this episode as a reason to dislike Keller, because I disliked Rodney in it at least as much. The only recourse is to blame Gero! But I like the mist-being theory as well - seriously, I might adopt it, it might be the only way I can come to terms with it. That was not my Rodney!

(also, massive icon love!)

[sholio]

Okay, I swore I wasn't going to comment any more on this topic, and I kind of danced around this at Cate's journal, but since I know you well enough that I can just flat-out say this and I won't offend you:

HOW is this any different than what slashers do?

Because, yes, it pisses me off the way that our society and our pop culture is geared towards sex and romance being the be-all and end-all of relationships. But that's what slash is, and that's why reading slash very often leaves me feeling a little bit ... bruised, because what it's saying, either implicitly or openly, is that the platonic relationships I so adore are ... nothing, compared to romantic love.

Yeah, it doesn't make me happy to have pro writers come right out and say it, but there are SHELVES full of romance novels at Barnes & Noble that express the same sentiment. There are archives full of slash fic that are basically mini-theses whose topic is what Gero just said. And I'm looking around at the anger and wondering where the hell it's coming from, when I had to learn to wall up my own frustration and hurt all these years just to get along in fandom without feeling like people were tromping all over my heart all the time. Goddamn it, I worked my ass off to not be resentful of slash for breaking up my friendship OTPs, and slowly I learned to read and enjoy it and even to write it. I have been working hard to come to terms with romance in general, to like and appreciate it so that I can work it into my own writing and appreciate it in other people's writing.

I can't believe that I feel this strongly about this, but I'm actually sitting here crying because I'm so hurt and angry that now, now everyone's getting upset about Gero pissing in their cheerios, when they've been happily pissing in mine for the entire time that I've been in fandom, and I've been working so fucking hard to get to a mental place where I can not only appreciate it but thank them for it.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hon, I've talked about this with you before, so I don't know how I can explain it better to you. But I'll try. Sex matters NOT AT ALL to me. I don't care about sex by itself. I only care about sex as another tool to show pre-existing affection. To me, John & Rodney having sex is an extension of them playing cars on the pier. I don't see slash - the slash I like - as trumping friendship; I see it as extending friendship. I read gen and slash and I don't prefer one to the other; I don't care if John & Rodney never hook up sexually, as long as they're friends. If they do hook up sexually, I still see them as friends first, and lovers second. It's not the sex I'm responding to; it's the love - the friendship love, the family love.

That's not most slashers; that's me personally. I'm not a normal slasher; I can't speak for them. But that is how I see it.

I do not see any pre-existing affection in Rodney/Keller. I don't see any friendship there. I see them having nothing in common, nothing to talk about, nothing to do together that they'd mutually enjoy, except sex. And that, to me, is a pretty meaningless relationship. So I deeply resent the implication that all the love Rodney has gotten from other people over the years means nothing, and that Keller telling him "I love you" while never showing anything of the sort, except for sex, means more than all the loyalty his team and his sister have shown him.

--oops, gotta go to work, will e you more later. This is a fundamental difference in how we see relationships and sex, so it's really hard to explain, but I'm willing to try!

[amalthia]

I think the main difference is Martin Gero is a writer on the show and what slash, gen, and het fans do has nothing to do with what the show creators do. At least that's how I view it.

I also think the message he's sending out reaches a much broader audience than any fan fiction ever written could reach.

He's basically saying the love of Rodney's team, family, and his accomplishments just weren't as important as romantic love and sex in an airplane?

Though I am conflicted on this issue. I am married and in love and I do think romantic love is very important and can add to a person's life. My husband is my partner and best friend. And I really don't begrudge the writers of the show for wanting to give McKay that sort of relationship.

I think from what I've read around and my own feelings is if they were going to go this route in the show I'd really love to have seen McKay and Keller becoming friends first and then discovering they love each other. SGA took the storytelling shortcut of telling us they are in love not actually showing it.

However I haven't really been invested in SGA since Irresponsible so I actually enjoyed the episode and don't feel at all upset by Gero's declaration that all McKay really wanted was unconditional love. (though personally if Gero really thinks that he should have gotten McKay a dog not a woman.)

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

I wanted to thank you for making me aware of my own pre-conceived notions.

While I know that other people don't think like me, it's most apparent on subjects where I'm explicitly aware of that. Like how people can't understand that I don't want to get a driver's license or don't drink alcohol or in fanish things, that I never saw romance between Jack and Daniel on SG-1, while obviously a lot of people do/did.

The notion that you'd want your romantic partner to be your best friend as well was something that I never really questioned. It made me positively giddy when Obama introduced his wife that way and it's how I prefer my ships, but now I realize that this isn't necessarily how everyone feels. I've been mystified by huge fan following for couples that don't seem to have anything going for them but a superficial attraction and in particular that didn't seem to share a deep friendship, but now I see that for others this might simply not be a requirement for a romantic relationship.

I'm really sorry that you feel so frustrated by this and that you (sometimes) feel that the slash breaks up the friendship.

For me the friendship between John and Rodney is the basis of their relationship. If you don't have it, you've got nothing. I absolutely hate fics that have them go at it in one closet or another but otherwise have them be indifferent to each other. It makes no sense to me.

The reason I slash them isn't because I think they love each other so much it has to be more than "just" friendship. I think the friendship that we've seen the develop between them over the years is one of the most beautiful relationships I've ever seen on screen. I enjoyed the few friendship fics that I read a lot. And in SG-1 I enjoyed all the friendships on the show without shipping anyone (and I think I was a happier viewer because of it).

But on SGA, my personal reading is that there is more between them. And by this "more", I should clarify, I do not mean more love, but a different (romantic) aspect of love. In particular there's the jealousy they display-which I wouldn't naturally expect from a platonic friendship which shouldn't interfere with a romantic relationship-and my subjective impression that John is gay and pining for Rodney.

I have to admit one thing I'm not quite clear on is how you perceive slash as breaking up the friendship. I don't know of fics where they stop being friends, in fact often the fear of losing the friendship plays a factor in not attempting romance.

Or maybe you mean the element of "finally" when they kiss or have sex for the first time as if everything before that didn't mean anything. I don't think it is meant that way, although now that I think about it, it might appear so.

For me John and Rodney getting together is keeping a wonderful friendship and adding something else that had been missing from their life (not that you can't be happy without a girl/boyfriend, but we've seen attempts in that direction from both so I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't mind or even actively wish for a romantic relationship). Of course you could have the same by having John get together with Larrin or someone else and what we now have between Rodney and Keller. For Rodney's part I could actually be happy for him to have John's friendship and Keller as a girlfriend. But unfortunately with John, I cannot see him as anything but in love with Rodney and to me that means that in addition to the friendship he longs to express his romantic feelings for him. What I'm trying to say, I think, is that when John and Rodney get together you could see it as not all that different from McKeller and John/Larrin happening, in that both would leave their friendship untouched. (And for those of us that like the friends become lovers theme, it's even more fulfilling.)

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your insight and wanted to explain where I'm coming from in this.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_la_la_la/]

Ugh - yeah, the entire thing about how unconditional romantic love is the only worthwhile kind of love, forgetting about all the other instances where the team demonstrated their love for him, and how he demonstrated his love for them. Does Rodney really need to hear "I love you" from Keller in order to get that he's loved? Does none of what happened in the past 5 years matter? GAH!

I'm focusing on reading fic, because I get the feeling S5 is not going to end well for my fannish love of the show.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

It's not like no one's ever told Rodney he's loved before! Elizabeth said "We love you"! Jeannie said "I love you"! But Keller can give him booty, so who cares if she doesn't show her love any other way.

Argh. Yeah. I need to find some good fic, because s5 is systematically destroying my love for the show...

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Look at it that way - in the other future, Sheppard saw that Keller died once they got together. So, there's still hope. Because, yeah, some things didn't happen, most of them John prevented with his simple presence. The one that happened despite him being there, ended the way he saw in the future - Michael spreading the Hoffan drug, Woolsey becoming the leader of Atlantis... So...

And as I said before, I want my scifi back, not Danielle Steele on repeat *rolls eyes*

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Oh, and on NCIS, do you mean the "Tony burning the letter" ep?

[elandrialore.livejournal.com]

I totally get why Rodney being told, "I love you," would be a high point in his life. I adored in Tao when Elizabeth said that they all loved him and Rodney's little, "Really? All of you?" about killed me. I also get why the next logical step in his mind would be to be told that by a romantic partner.

I even get why being told that by Keller would make him light up because she is everything that he's ever wanted in a woman. Or, at least, that he's been upfront about wanting in a woman. She's smart, courageous, capable, beautiful, blond, etc. She can also 'handle' him and his cantankerous moods, which he knows by experience that many people, especially girlfriends, can't or won't.

However, I really don't like the fact that the times when we've seen her most attracted to him he's not been himself. I find Rodney wanting to better himself admirable. I find Rodney wanting to better himself just to get a girl sad. I find Keller knowingly enabling this behavior as potentially disastrous.

Rodney's, 'I love you,' to her before we ever really saw them alone together for any length of time was waaaaaaay too farfetched for me to handle, as is Keller's, 'I love you,' to him in this episode.

If it had been Rodney saying, "I really like you and I've been hoping for a while that we could be something more," and if they had ended this episode with Rodney saving her, hugging her (maybe, possibly a kiss) and then them sleeping next to each other on the plane, her head nestled on his shoulder, I would have bought it.

But for some reason they keep wanting to fast forward through the relationship parts, the building of the friendship and the move into something more, and those are the parts we (or maybe just I) like the best. Those are the parts that make me squirm in my seat and delight with a huge grin on my face. Often times, admittedly, I end up yelling at the screen, "JUST KISS HIM!" but I don't need the kiss because the small show of love is many times more poignant than the grand gesture. I do, however, need the small gesture. I need to know that something's there beyond the fact that she's a pretty girl and he's a hot guy and it's possible that they have some chemistry.

And I think that's one of the reasons why I like slash so much because with the slash couples I like, it's all those parts. It's the big gestures and the small ones, the happiness and the sadness and the things in between and it's so easy to say, "Okay, so they have this great relationship, let me see if I can build on that."

And it all goes back to the basic writer's tool: show don't tell. We're told that Rodney and Keller are in love, but we've only been shown that they have the potential for a lasting friendship. We were shown that Rodney was loved unconditionally by his friends for three and a half seasons before we were ever told it, and then we were continuously shown afterwards as well.

The answer to why the second one is more believable is ludicrously simple.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

See, for me, I don't think we've even been shown the friendship potential of Rodney & Keller. We haven't seen them having much of anything in common; we haven't seen them spend any time together, except either when forced by circumstance (medical or trapped in a box) or awkwardly flirting over meals. I don't know how a friendship between Rodney & Keller would work, much less a marriage (which kinda seems to be where the writers want to go...)

I also admit that I don't see what Keller sees in Rodney. I find Rodney incredibly attractive myself on a number of levels, but I don't know what she likes in him. Apparently not his intelligence or his arrogance (which are big turn-ons for me) the way she was shooting him down - and she doesn't act that physically attracted. She liked him when he was sweet when he was brain-damaged - but if you like sweet guys, how the hell do you end up crushing on Rodney? I mean, he can be sweet, but it's not his default setting. Ronon can be sweeter than Rodney, so if that's what she likes why didn't she pursue that?

The "I love you" bugged me more than the sex. They're both adults, it's been a while since either of them have dated as far as we know; after the adrenaline-fueled day, diving into bed together doesn't seem unreasonable to me. But to imply that it's all important, to say that it matters more than the years of friendship Rodney's shared with John and the team, that stung.

Definitely the subtextual nature is one of the major draws of slash for me...my favorite romances are those with a firm foundation in friendship; in most slash, all we ever are shown canonically is the friendship, so it's great fun to build on. While as in too much textual romance, we get big romantic gestures and confessions, but not much of the subtle displays of mutual affection that are my biggest kink.

[amalthia]

I just had this realization that if McKay really wanted unconditional love he needed to get a dog not a girlfriend...I'd like to think that a parent's love for a child is unconditional but there are way too many abandoned children...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

A parent's love *should* be unconditional. Sadly, it's not, all too often. Otherwise, yeah, Rodney really needed a dog...all these years, all his emotional problems stem from him being a cat person! Who knew?

[lysambre.livejournal.com]

I've hum... loved you... for a while now...


Do you feel my love when I say this ? Do you feel we're going to get our happy ending ? DO you feel it's time to propose me sex so I'll just shut up about it ? -_-


Yeah, Gero, big disappointer you are, you and all you friendly team of writers, I'm laughing in advance at the disaster that SGU is going to be... oh no I'm sorry, the 13 years old will love it as much as they seem to love the current episodes of SGA (excuse me while I go vomit somewhere). Yeah, younger audience, definitely... (brighter ? I'm not sure they're going to ever get better than the SGA audience).

Blah, I'm ignoring every episode that contains even one bit of McKeller, they are obviously AU's in a messed up world.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

They said they loved each other! That's what love is, to tell someone you love them and hear it back! What more do you need?

Actually, a couple of the creators have said SGU is not going to be about romance...and Wright & Cooper weren't the architects of SGA romance...so I admit to being vaguely curious about SGU. Though a cadre of young and pretty but inexperienced actors doesn't sound terribly appealing.

Ignoring McKeller eps as annoying AUs is definitely the way to go!

[wneleh.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to figure out my thoughts and feelings about this ep; McKeller in general; life, love, and relationships IRL and in fiction of various sorts; and what I can say to people to make them stay in the fandom through January and beyond.

And, really, I've got very little.

A couple of thoughts, based on what little I could read of the Gero article, this post, and the comments:

(1) There's really no such thing as unconditional love, except, if you're lucky, what you feel for your children when they're not actively poking you with sticks, IME.

(2) How Jennifer treats Rodney? That's "I love you, now change." Nothing unconditional about it. BTDT, didn't work, ever.

(3) Slash vs. friendship fic vs. smarm vs. ?: My big issue w/ slash (and romance in general) is that, in it, love, actually fixes anything. And, it doesn't, or not much. The thing is, friendship doesn't really, either. But that doesn't mean that life isn't full of moments of grace, courtesy other people; those are what I most like to read; well, when I'm not gobbling up slash or gooey smarm.

(4) There *is* something more to a sexual relationship than it being merely the logical extension of another sort of relationship, else people would have a lot more sexual partners concurrently than they tend to.

(5) Rodney and Keller are welcome, in my book, to do whatever on the plane they want. I don't think it's going to much affect how I write team!fic into the future, unless TPTB manage, in the next four episodes, to convince me that there's something fundamentally there.

(6) A lot of the fun of fanfic, for me, is taking the illogical bits - like, why DIDN'T McKay try harder to stop the bridge? - and making them make sense, even if it comes down to, people just aren't always on top of their games, or maybe someone was pumping in stupid!gas.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Heh - my feelings on romance and relationships in fiction have pretty much zero bearing on my feelings about them in RL, oddly enough. I don't have much interest in realism in my fiction!

I want reasons to stay in the fandom, though...I love SGA fandom (like a friend feels about another friend! or romantically! whichever!) The show's making it hard for me, though (if you can come up with a good reason why McKay didn't try harder to stop the bridge - please, let me know! That's the part that drove me nuts about the episode, the part that Rodney was so very much not the Rodney McKay I adore that I started to dislike him.)

(4) There *is* something more to a sexual relationship than it being merely the logical extension of another sort of relationship, else people would have a lot more sexual partners concurrently than they tend to.

Hmm, I'm curious what this is a response to - Gero's ideas, or my comments above, or something else. If it's to my comments, I don't actually see sex as a "logical extension" of friendship, but more a possible extension. There are romantic/sexual relationships that aren't based on friendship; however the kind of sexual relationship I most enjoy reading & writing is that with a solid base in friendship. And I like the way adding a romantic/sexual component to a friendship can provide a new framework for the friends to express their love, or give a friendship a more permanent, settled family aspect.

My views on sex are somewhat atypical, however, for personal reasons. What it comes down to is that I like reading/watching friendship, with or without a romantic component; I don't really like romance unless it has a friendship component. So McKeller, lacking sufficient friendshipping, fails for me, and I find Gero putting that relationship above all the relationships that do work for me immensely frustating.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

Okay, I haven't read the rest of your post or the comments. I've only read the interview. And so...

For five years, we didn't even know it, but all that guy wanted was for someone to tell him that they loved him in an unconditional way.

Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe you and the rest of the lunkheads in the SGA writers room didn't know this, Mr. Gero, but every fucking McKay fan has know that for years. It's one of the reasons why we McSheppers love the pairing because we can see that John loves Rodney without condition. Seriously, you are a total idiot who doesn't know shit about his own characters.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Just, yes. I don't know how Gero thought we didn't know it. It's pretty painfully obvious about Rodney from, um, his second appearance in SG-1, really.

The SGA writers are so oblivious to the motivation of their own characters that it'd be funny, if it weren't so frustrating!!

[greyias.livejournal.com]

I have no boyfriend! I HAVE NO LOVE! What do I do??? My life is empty! Meaningless!

Me too. I was wondering just this morning why my life seemed so incomplete, so devoid of feeling. Then I read Wunderkind's words, and it was clear, that prioritizing my life as my own, rather than finding a man to fill that void--damn it, too dirty complete me has been the wrong thing to do. It's why I'm so miserable. I do not have a creepy wish fulfillment with Jewel Staite unconditional love.

Someone tell me how to hold onto my SGA love, because I don't want to lose this fandom, but the show seems pretty determined to use its dying breath to drive me away.

Remember that Martin Gero also seems to think that the audience and everyone on the show hates Zelenka? And also that Martin Gero seems to think that both we and everyone else think that John is actually stupid? And that for someone who writes such good episodes, he also is a fourteen year old girl can write really sucky ones? Also, it was his last episode for the show, he will not be writing the movie, so there is hope we can still go out on a high. (I have some giddy hopes for 5x18... I think that's the right number.) Please don't leave me here alone. Um, and also, Martin Gero has zero respect for a lot of fans, especially female ones. He has been known to throw a hissy fit if someone calls him on bad writing, and will accuse people of being jealous of a character rather than acknowledging there might be some truth to the matter. In the grand scheme of things, his opinion... doesn't hold much sway. It certainly doesn't make my reading of the show less valid. I don't know... that's just me though. I can certainly understand getting disgusted and not watching a show anymore. I still haven't seen the sixth season of Highlander, stopped watching Lost, Heroes, 24, the CSIs... I usually tend to cling tighter though when I'm invested in a fandom though, so that might be the difference.

I don't know... I think after the show is over, it'll actually be a lot easier to ignore the BS that's being thrown our way. I'm kind of stubborn, so I'm adopting the approach of "This makes show has made me happy for five years, through thick and thin, and damn it, they're not taking that away from me with their stupid."

But yeah... I think I'm going to make a happy post later after I finish up on the flashfic Jades and I've been working on. Because I might start frothing at the mouth if I keep thinking about this.

Martin Gero is a moron. Please do not let him ruin the show for you.

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

And also that Martin Gero seems to think that both we and everyone else think that John is actually stupid?
God, yes. He wrote a Mensa joke into "Miller's Crossing" but it was cut, so he came back to it in "First Contact", not once, but twice. It ruined the whole episode for me, especially the second "joke" where Zelenka tells John he's too dumb to understand. You could see that John was really annoyed by that one and I really don't see a reason to insult a character unless you a) have some payback later or b) want to make the person making the insult look like an ass.

Actually that was really similar to the Zelenka joke in "Trio". Completely pointless and probably only funny if you agree. I think I chose to originally see this as somehow pointing out a quirk, but you're probably right and Gero really does think that everyone hates Zelenka.

[jujuberry136.livejournal.com]

The episode itself was merely "meh" for me (definitely needed more arrogant Rodney though. Come on! He lives in another galaxy, fights space vampires, and deals with the coolest science ever! How could he worried about not publishing? Why not just be his normal smug and awesome self when boasting about his intellect?) But Gero's commment...grrr.

Not only does it invalidate the friend/family love the show's built up over the years, but the idea that the relationship we've seen develop between Rodney and Keller represents unconditional love is a bit annoying. Even as a John/Rodney shipper, I could be brought around if they had done the McKeller pairing right- more moments just hanging out and talking, Keller defending McKay (and comforting him in the face of the other scientists), and maybe a bit of "showing" the relationship rather than "telling."

Gah.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

To be honest, the lack of arrogant!Rodney killed the episode for me. I love Rodney when he's being an obnoxiously brilliant asshole (...put it this way, I actually liked him in SG-1) and I was terribly disappointed to get almost none of that in the ep.

As a McShepper, I'm sort of torn. On the one hand, the McKeller is so unbelievable that it doesn't seem like much of a threat to the McShep, whatever the writers think. On the other hand, it's frustrating to see a relationship done so badly, to see Rodney get this poor shadow of real love and have it be considered "unconditional," what he always needed, while the true loyalty and support his team gives him is ignored. Keller defending Rodney - or better yet, ignoring the other scientists, and laughing at them with Rodney behind their backs - might've helped bring me around.

[unadrift.livejournal.com]

Hell, yes. I'll take a side order of rage, thank you. With sprinkles on top. Because: Exactly! Rodney could as well have brought his kindergarten teacher with him, for all the chastising and the stern looks. Unconditional love? Where?

For what it's worth, I never hated Keller. I could have really liked her as a character if they hadn't forced this relationship in a way that made her look-- I don't even know how they made her look! This is the first time that inconsistencies in a character strike me this hard. Maybe every writer had a different idea who she was supposed to be? Maybe the only thing they could ever agree upon was that they needed to get Jennifer together with Rodney?
And what's worst, they don't have any chemistry. I don't see it. AT ALL. Okay, as a serious McShep kind of person I might be considered a little biased, but I'm usually able to separate between canon and fanon, between what could possibly turn up on screen one day and what's entirely wishful thinking. And then I can go on and enjoy the canon, and think up the rest for myself.

But this episode was just *wrong* on so many levels. Not only the McKeller, which screamed out the loudest. It's a shame, because seeing Rodney with his old colleagues/rivals, showing how his disconnection from the academic society is perceived by them, showing how Rodney copes with the fact that, while people may remember that he used to be brilliant, they haven't seen proof of it for quite a while -- that could have been really interesting, if they had dealt with it in a remotely sensible way.
Thinking about it, the entire 'Well, the general idea was good, but then they got on with the plot...' thing happened *a lot* this season.

And Keller. Can you spell 'overdoing it'? The kindergarten teacher act was bad enough (poor Rodney), and then she *goes to make a phone call* as if she's just offered to disarm a nuclear bomb. Blindfolded. With one hand tied behind her back. Seriously, what?! Worse than that: Rodney plays along. Actually, he starts it by wishing her good luck. So, it's not only her overdoing it here.
Oh wow, I really *hate* this episode. It's worse than Whispers. Huh. I wouldn't have thought that could be possible.

Okay, I've ranted for long enough now, and it's entirely possible that I might have steered a little off topic, and I probably should have got going on my own LJ instead. But well, since you got me started, you'll just have to endure. *g*
Now I'm off to do the only thing that's going to cure me from this ep: AU it as McShep.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to YES you resoundingly for all of this. Nothing really coherent to add, just YES YES YES, everything you say!

I hated this episode, to the point that it's practically ruining the show for me to think about it (...I know, I really ought to stop!) The McKeller drives me nuts, but Rodney with his old colleagues was what really got to me, that he was so damn pathetic with them, like everything he's done in Atlantis meant nothing. The part when he stands up to stop the guy, and then he's all timid and shy and listens to Keller and sits down again - where the hell was Rodney McKay who sneered at Sam Carter's genius, who stood up to Kolya, who's done extreme science under a ticking clock or side by side with Replicators and life-sucking WRAITH - how the hell could a roomful of scientists possibly intimidate him after that? Why didn't he just point out the scientific flaws in Tunney's theory, deluge him with technobabble until the other scientists realized Tunney didn't know what he was doing? What happened to Rodney??? Did travel through the stargate remove his spine? Was the private jet laced with some kind of ego-reducing poison? Or is he so interested in looking good to Keller that he'd let Tunney put the PLANET at risk?

--ARGH! SO ANGRY! And Gero thinking this ep was the best thing he's ever written...didn't help at all. Siiiiiigh.

AU IT! oh, please!! I need as many fixes as I can get...

[dovil.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you ever followed Buffy, but the parallels between Marti Noxon in Season Six of that show and Martin Gero in Season Five of SGA are frighteningly obvious.

It's not just that he used the show to regurgitate his emotional baggage all over the place, it's that he had to be so emotionally underdeveloped and juvenile about it. The whole thing makes me cringe in embarrassment.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've never watched Buffy, actually, but urgh...that doesn't sound pleasant! I wish Gero would grow up in his writing...I liked his earlier eps so much better. In s1 Gero wrote Rodney as obnoxious but brilliant, and his arrogance could be annoying but it also saved Atlantis. Then somewhere along the line he decided that Rodney being cool wasn't nearly as good at time as making fun of Rodney, and after that started dreaming up all the ways he could to make Rodney look bad for the sake of comedy...

[distorquere.livejournal.com]

Well, nothing much to add here except I agree. Unconditional love? Keller has done nothing but try to change him! That is CANON! And I agree that for Rodney, being told someone loves you must be very important, but I just get the feeling that Keller wants something from him. That he's being played all along. Maybe she just wants him for sex? That's how it looks anyway.

And where was the rest of the team during this episode? They could at least have put two plotlines in there. Or a traditional save by the rest of the team. Or something.

Summary: as;dlfkaj;sdklfha;ghlksafjs Gero.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The lack of team these days is killing me. The very beginning of the season did it so well! And now, nothing..."Remnants" is the only ep all season with a team tag (and it was the only screentime Ronon & Teyla got for the whole ep, save the teaser!)

[astrumporta.livejournal.com]

You know, Mallozzi is taking questions for Gero about Brain Storm on his blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com) (just add a comment). I'd give a small appendage if someone would ask Gero if he's a virgin (not counting prostitutes). Ha!

Some of the criticism of his YPF "feature film" was that the 4 relationships portrayed are very juvenile and seem to be aimed at people with almost no experience. I watched it and pretty much agree with that.

Maybe he's staying on with Universe because his view of relationships will finally jive with the ages of the actors? Not to insult 20-yr-olds, sorry!

Meanwhile I'm just not going to think about this episode anymore other than how hot Rodney looked in the tux.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if Gero only understands juvenile relationships, or if it's just that those are the kinds of relationships he likes to write. He might have a perfectly healthy relationship with his girlfriend but think that portraying such on TV would be boring (since he seems to believe that humor is the holy grail, and it's better to laugh at a character than actually like them...) In that case, yeah, maybe SGU will be more suited to him. He seems totally oblivious that a guy Rodney's age being in a high school relationship is more creepy than cute...

Argh! I was so annoyed by how Gero wrote Rodney that I couldn't even enjoy DH in a tux! *cries*

[trystings.livejournal.com]

That 'unconditional love' remark, well, *flaps hands at all the other comments*. Gero is an idiot and not even the most fervent McKeller shipper/Jennifer hugger can claim that this romance was well written. I saw more chemistry between Ronon and Keller during that almost-kiss in Quarantine, than in Trio, The Shrine and Brain Storm put together.

I have come to realize that I don't like romance on crime shows or SciFi shows period. Romance is why I liked season 4 of NCIS least. Tony's long-winded affair with Jeanne: twenty-four freakin' episodes of watching them go out for lunch, for dinner, losing earrings, finding earrings, gifting man bracelets that looked like a tracking device, PM-ing, calling to say hi, pouting when Tony had to cancel, meeting her mother. It probably didn't feel like that to you and Gnine, because you saw the season in one sitting, but when you have to wait a week to see some development and nothing happens, and the main character that you love drifts further and further from the team, it's high blood pressure inducing. On the upside though, the groundwork for their relationship was beautifully laid out, there was a point to the whole affair, and we have had a further two seasons to deal with the aftermath.

McKeller doesn't even have the saving grace of a plot. This is it! Next episode confirms their relationship, the one after that tests their relationship and then it's the finale and our love birds are off to the side in the final shot, separate from the rest, but better persons because of their Unconditional Love. (Oh and let's not forget that McKay's considering going back to the private sector when his contract is up. Gero's final parting shot.)

Why can't Gero and Mallozzi understand that this is not what the majority of the viewers want from the last season of SGA?

And now that I'm venting anyway: why did Flanigan end up with that tool of a Mallozzi for his character's development this season?! Whispers, which Flanigan phoned in, and Remnants. And Remnants was okay, but did we finally get some insight into what makes Sheppard tick, like Mallozzi promised? No, only more Sheppardfuckedupness that needs a ton of fanfic to put right.

Arghh.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I don't really like romance in my TV, period. I can be brought around to it, but it takes me a long time to accept it, and there is pretty much no show I can think of that I *wanted* romance, that I was disappointed because a pairing didn't hook up in canon (I'll get disappointed if my OTPs get broken up by alternate pairings, but that's a different story.)

NCIS is an interesting case, because yeah, I think if I'd watched s4 as it aired I'd have hated the Tony/Jeanne stuff. As it is, watching it bored me, but I knew it wasn't going to last, and in retrospect I really like what it did with Tony's character. (I also knew it was part of his undercover assignment, which on the one hand was a frustrating spoiler, I really want to know if I would've guessed it on my own - but on the other hand it meant I never saw Tony as OOC, and a lot of their conversations play really interestingly when you know that's his core motivation. The writers really knew what they were doing!) In the end it brought him even closer to the team; the moment in "Family" where he makes the choice, and chooses them - gah, words cannot express my love for that scene! So ultimately I kind of love Tony/Jeanne, because it failed.

Meanwhile I'm slowly being brought on board to Tony/Ziva - it's not that I *want* it, quite, but rather that I can see a basis for it, and it wouldn't upset me if it happened in canon. (Actually what I really see is an OT4 between all of Gibbs's "kids"...) I love them as platonic partners, and I think if they hooked up it would change relatively little about their friendship otherwise, which is how I like my pairings to go.

So, yeah, NCIS is a happy place right now, and I have a fair amount of faith that the writers will keep it that way. Getting back to SGA - I think one of the problems with s5 is the lack of character development. It's not just Sheppard - the only character development for anyone has been the Keller romance, save for a little bit with Teyla and her baby. But that was brought over from s4 - there's been no new developments with anyone, except Ronon with Keller (and as soon as Keller rejected him he stopped getting any kind of character storyline) and Rodney with Keller.

Which I suspect is one of the reasons there's been such a negative response to the McKeller. Sure, it's a badly written, clumsily done romance, but we didn't expect anything better. But we're not getting much else to distract us. For four years we watched John & Rodney's relationship develop from teammates to friends hanging out together to friends supporting one another; now John & Rodney don't have scenes together anymore, they're pretty much back to being teammates. For three years Ronon opened up, got a sense of humor, went with John back to Earth, proved himself to the IOA - now he's just there. And Keller has been in two seasons, but the only real development we've seen in her is her learning how to fight (an arc spanning only two episodes a year apart and never referenced in between) and who she's dating; she hasn't developed any friendships, or started doing new science, or gotten any happier off-world.

I don't think the writers have any idea what viewers want, considering they don't even seem to know their own characters (Gero saying Rodney just wants love like it was a huge revelation - umm, seriously? You didn't know? Because we viewers all knew that about him about five years ago! It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic...)

Oh well - four more episodes and then these characters are ours, and can't be hurt by the writers anymore!!